purpose for sparrows?

[pepto]

this is something i've wondered quiet a bit. the aim-120s just seem better in general, but i would like to know if the aim-7s have something to them that the amraams don't. does flood mode have some advantages over something like amraams with boresight mode? :huh:

[Haukka81]

Aim-120 are not avaible before late 80's - early 90's :P

[pepto]

Aim-120 are not avaible before late 80's - early 90's :P

were sparrows even really used much after the aim-120 came out? even more modern jets like the super hornet can employ the aim-7

[Pilotasso]

AIM-7's are still widely exported to nations with arms export limitations such as Egypt and Iraq.

 

AIM-7's still have a role destroying low flying targets, where AIM-120's are more prone to self jamming.

[pepto]

hmm, that makes sense, thanks

[Steel Jaw]

AIM7 is also known by US pilots as the "Great White Hope" ... 'nuff said.

[Pilotasso]

hmmm what? would you fill in the blanks?

[Svend_Dellepude]

You fire one and then cross your fingers and pray to God for a splash... :)

[AegisFX]

As already stated, the Sparrow is an older missile, so it works in missions that are trying for time period accuracy. In terms of performance and general characteristics though, I think its warhead is bigger, which means more damage. I've read positive opinions where DCS pilots will carry one or two specifically to fire into furballs. If they somehow lose a radar lock on the target plane, it can't lock onto a friendly contact. I can see the appeal in that sense, but personally take 120-Cs when available.

[Steel Jaw]

Sparrow is heavier than the Slammer and far less effective.

[Cali]

The AIM-7 works great if you have a friendly near the target....unless you use FLOOD mode.

[Svend_Dellepude]

Less effective on tail aspect target. I've manged to score not so few kills with the sparrow. It needs to be employed under the right circumstances, but you can certainly score kills with it. And as mentioned, good for engagements where you have friendlies close to avoid blue on blue.

[TAW_Blaze]

Yeah. Friendly savior until AMRAAM gets it's stuff fixed. And the ultimate trolling tool :megalol:

[Iberian]

The amraam's lead pursuit characteristic is not ideal in some situations, so that's when the Sparrow becomes ideal. Also when assisting a dogfight, amraam may mistakenly target the friendly once it goes active instead of the enemy in such a close furball, so the Sparrow will assure a more precise attack.

[escaner]

The Sparrow is currently an ancient missile completely surpassed in every aspect by the AMRAAM and other missiles, but it still is in the arsenal of many countries and that alone is enough to have it in game.

 

The Sparrow's initial versions were very problematic and it wasn't trustworthy in Vietnam war, but the latest variants were quite effective and it did a pretty good job in the 1991 Gulf War, while the AMRAAM was still in development. IIRC, the combo that most Iraqui planes downed in that conflict was F-15 with AIM-7.

 

You can check a list of those combats here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engagements_of_the_Gulf_War

[Pilotasso]

^^^^^AIM-7F is not equal to AIM-7M. Also Sparrows are as good as the radars of the launcher.

[SFJackBauer]

Also FLOOD mode does not gives a lock warning on target RWR, only a search warning :music_whistling:

[ironroad]

Because the Aim-120, never really worked in this series and was always greatly under modeled.

 

I prefer to carry at least two AIM-7s unless I'm dog fighting in close, then the AIM-9C...errr I mean AIM-120 becomes useful.

[PFunk]

Keep in mind that BVR missiles have a shockingly poor track record. All of them. There were 24 R-27s fired by Russian mercenary pilots in the Ethiopian-Eritrean conflict. One kill. And that one was only accomplished after the stricken fighter crashed on landing.

 

The AIM-120 has nine kills. Most of them against Serbian aircraft that were barely airworthy, much less combat-capable. Shouldn't shock us that it doesn't kill a lot of things when you launch one. I think the Slammers are modeled fine. I think it's the Russian missiles that are...optimistic...

[Crescendo]

The purpose of the Sparrow is to demonstrate your superior abilities as an Airborne Samurai.

 

With this most civilized weapon you will joust the chivalrous skies and deliver eternal shame upon the fox-three scrubs.

[Frostie]

The obvious reason for carrying an AIM-7 is to support friendlies/wingmen that are suffering in a merge. If you fire an AMRAAM or even AIM-9 into that mess you risk a catastrophe. An ARH fired into the vicinity of a friendly is crazy unless you fancy maintaining lock when suddenly surprised by another bandit, otherwise you'd be making your escape leaving the missile maddog and most likely killing your buddy running to you for help.

[GGTharos]

SARH are also capable of switching targets - at least that's what it looks like to me when viewing some of the parameters available. Just FYI. I actually think a part of that mechanization is missing, but it might get, I don't know, enabled some day :)

[GGTharos]

Keep in mind that BVR missiles have a shockingly poor track record. All of them. There were 24 R-27s fired by Russian mercenary pilots in the Ethiopian-Eritrean conflict. One kill. And that one was only accomplished after the stricken fighter crashed on landing.

 

The E-E conflict isn't usually considered as anything more than an anecdote. Old, possibly 'expired' export versions of R-27Rs were used there, and we have no idea regarding the launch parameters either.

 

The AIM-120 has nine kills. Most of them against Serbian aircraft that were barely airworthy, much less combat-capable. Shouldn't shock us that it doesn't kill a lot of things when you launch one. I think the Slammers are modeled fine. I think it's the Russian missiles that are...optimistic...

 

They have kills against targets that were quite airworthy and fought to not get destroyed, too. The over-all Pk of the AIM-120 is twice that of the AIM-7. And I say over-all, as in, not picking and rejecting shots out of parameters, double-ups, unconfirmed but possible hits, technical failures etc.

 

You really don't want a modern BVR missile heading your way. To put it another way ... those things are expensive. They wouldn't be getting bought by the thousands if they weren't effective. We're well past the era of the 'great white hope'; technology, testing methods and training have all advanced well past what was available back in the days of 0.1Pk.

[PFunk]

The E-E conflict isn't usually considered as anything more than an anecdote. Old, possibly 'expired' export versions of R-27Rs were used there, and we have no idea regarding the launch parameters either.

 

 

 

They have kills against targets that were quite airworthy and fought to not get destroyed, too. The over-all Pk of the AIM-120 is twice that of the AIM-7. And I say over-all, as in, not picking and rejecting shots out of parameters, double-ups, unconfirmed but possible hits, technical failures etc.

 

You really don't want a modern BVR missile heading your way. To put it another way ... those things are expensive. They wouldn't be getting bought by the thousands if they weren't effective. We're well past the era of the 'great white hope'; technology, testing methods and training have all advanced well past what was available back in the days of 0.1Pk.

 

I'm just looking at the practical use of these weapons and their historical performance, which is less than stellar. IR-seeking missiles are historically more effective and most of the post-WW2 kills have been in WVR combat. BVR missiles and the BVR fight, historically, has been a expensive endeavor with very spotty and inconclusive results. In other words, the worth of these efforts is hardly what you'd call effective.

 

Think of it in terms of infantry combat. We have lots of heavy battle rifles that can reach long distances to kill someone, but most infantry combat happens within 100-200m. Which is why those weapons are not terribly effective and M4s are. Think of an internal cannon as an infantryman's combat knife. Few kills have been made with either. Those M4s are much like the IR-seeking short-range missiles found on Eagles and MiGs.

 

The BVR fight is limited in effectiveness. You have the limitations of the weapons themselves, IFF that is so unreliable we generally don't have an air battle without AWACS or J-STARS flying around to tell who's who on the player cards, and then there are political concerns about friendly-fire or shooting down a civilian airliner that was senseless enough to wander into contested airspace.

 

To my mind, BVR weapons are a good idea that never really showed the results we wanted. This is why the F-4E wound up with an internal cannon.

[xaoslaad]

I wouldnt have shot my buddy down with an aim 120 last night if i had a sparrow handy....