Take Off in the Bf 109K-4

[DB 605]

Bottom line: if you do it right and train a bit, 109 is not much more difficult than the Fw-190 for example.

 

Indeed, and that's confirmed many times by real pilots as well. here is one example:

 

"As a plane the Me was a typical wartime fighter equipped with a powerful engine. If you pushed the throttle to full suddenly you might lose control, if the pilot's legs were stiffened because nervousness. But if one was calm, he could control the plane. A cool pilot could easily control the plane's direction and change it when accelerating. When the pilot applied the correct procedures there wasn't any real danger."

-Jorma Karhunen, Finnish fighter ace. 36 1/2 victories

[Yo-Yo]

Indeed, and that's confirmed many times by real pilots as well. here is one example:

 

"As a plane the Me was a typical wartime fighter equipped with a powerful engine. If you pushed the throttle to full suddenly you might lose control, if the pilot's legs were stiffened because nervousness. But if one was calm, he could control the plane. A cool pilot could easily control the plane's direction and change it when accelerating. When the pilot applied the correct procedures there wasn't any real danger."

-Jorma Karhunen, Finnish fighter ace. 36 1/2 victories

 

I heard almost the same from Erich - he is very quick in mind and actions even when he is 91, so I can only suggest what was his reaction when he was 22. Instincts and accurate reaction.

So, my duty, as a developer of FM, is to check if I can perform the same technics to take off and landing he practiced :) if I managed to TO with free tailwheel advancing the throttle to 1.3-1.4 ata at once and being extremely concentrated - it's a good FM... If I proceed to the grass as I begin to think about rouble and USD - it's right FM.

[DB 605]

If I proceed to the grass as I begin to think about rouble and USD - it's right FM.

 

:D

 

One thing is sure for me, it feels like most accurate 109 FM ever done in any sim...

[Kurfürst]

:D

 

One thing is sure for me, it feels like most accurate 109 FM ever done in any sim...

 

Seconded. If only we could loose some pressure from the tires LOL, the thing is bouncing all over the place like a basketball.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Kurfürst

[Flanker35M]

S!

 

Also bought the Kurfürst. Quite a beast! Just wondering about a couple of things. Why on earth is the flare gun stuffed in the tube? Pilots did not keep it there, but in their pocket(in flight pants) or similar. Another quirk is the strange behaviour on take off. Every single time when taking off, and even everything goes smoothly, the plane at some point just wants to roll over 90deg to left. This happens when you are already airborne and with enough speed. I find it odd as the plane can be perfectly centered ball and wings level, then it just snap rolls to left all the sudden.

 

Anyways. Great addition to DCS, loving it along with all the other planes :)

[DB 605]

S!

 

Also bought the Kurfürst. Quite a beast! Just wondering about a couple of things. Why on earth is the flare gun stuffed in the tube? Pilots did not keep it there, but in their pocket(in flight pants) or similar. Another quirk is the strange behaviour on take off. Every single time when taking off, and even everything goes smoothly, the plane at some point just wants to roll over 90deg to left. This happens when you are already airborne and with enough speed. I find it odd as the plane can be perfectly centered ball and wings level, then it just snap rolls to left all the sudden.

 

Anyways. Great addition to DCS, loving it along with all the other planes :)

 

There is already couple of topics about flare gun, it will be able to toggle on/off later it seems. About your take-off behaviour, sounds really strange. I've never had similar problems and i've flown quite many hours...

[SlipBall]

Flanker35M

Sounds like the speed, try lowering the nose a bit till you gain more speed

[FoReIgNeR]

Im really happy about the upcoming changes in the .14 update =) especially the 'extended landing gear brings the nose heavy effect'. Lower value of Cm_alpha0 in landing config will give us more trim authority when taking of and landing!

[Solty]

Now that I have the K4, I find it easy to take off, but it is not realistic. The nose is too light with gear down... and up too.

 

The easiest way is to lock the tail wheel and have it trimmed down max, go with countering the torque and having backpressure for most of the rolling, when you feel that the plane wants to go up (and it will, oh IT WILL) you have to push it down, she will fly herself up.

 

They will fix the landing gear not making the 109 go nose heavy in the next patch :)

[FoReIgNeR]

Great minds think alike =)

[louisv]

S!

 

...Another quirk is the strange behaviour on take off. Every single time when taking off, and even everything goes smoothly, the plane at some point just wants to roll over 90deg to left. This happens when you are already airborne and with enough speed. I find it odd as the plane can be perfectly centered ball and wings level, then it just snap rolls to left all the sudden.

 

Anyways. Great addition to DCS, loving it along with all the other planes :)

 

Same happened to me several times at first, but I think if you hold the beast down to stay on the runway a bit longer, you will take-off faster and not roll left so suddenly...

 

The thing with taking off with the K-4, is you have to really hold the nose down and its difficult to keep your hand from "ham fisting" when you do that. Now for the landing...:joystick:

[DB 605]

 

The thing with taking off with the K-4, is you have to really hold the nose down and its difficult to keep your hand from "ham fisting" when you do that. Now for the landing...:joystick:

 

Not anymore in open beta, i can confirm :) Landing gears will cause proper nose-down effect.

[Pratt]

To those who helped me for T/O procedures, here is my progress: 1 successful T/O out of 5. It will have to use many lives to eventually be able to lodge few bullets in someone else aircraft. But as Lizzard told me once: "don't give up" and I shall just do that. I shall have to give up some friends thou, for K4 sessions, with whom I have been flying since the start of Lockon years ago, as they decided to return to turbine engines due to the excessive amount of time spent crashing during take off, dog fights, landings and restarting, as opposed to flight time. Well, I haven't reached 109 lives yet so I am still in the green, will I find 109 pilots to dogfight with? I just hope CASA won't cancel my licence. Safe skys for all.:thumbup:

[Pratt]

S!

 

Also bought the Kurfürst. Quite a beast! Just wondering about a couple of things. Why on earth is the flare gun stuffed in the tube? Pilots did not keep it there, but in their pocket(in flight pants) or similar. Another quirk is the strange behaviour on take off. Every single time when taking off, and even everything goes smoothly, the plane at some point just wants to roll over 90deg to left. This happens when you are already airborne and with enough speed. I find it odd as the plane can be perfectly centered ball and wings level, then it just snap rolls to left all the sudden.

 

Anyways. Great addition to DCS, loving it along with all the other planes :)

 

I do have the same issue Flanker.The airspeed at 210km/h, 1/4 flaps and 2500rpm governor on, trim full FWD. Lift off nice and level with the runway in the windscreen and then that 90 degrees L/H bank hits me even with full R/H rudder and stick 3/4 right. Nothing I do can stop it. So we are doing the same mistake. Can you give me your controls position when that happen please. Regards

[tusler]

S!

 

Also bought the Kurfürst. Quite a beast! Just wondering about a couple of things. Why on earth is the flare gun stuffed in the tube? Pilots did not keep it there, but in their pocket(in flight pants) or similar. Another quirk is the strange behaviour on take off. Every single time when taking off, and even everything goes smoothly, the plane at some point just wants to roll over 90deg to left. This happens when you are already airborne and with enough speed. I find it odd as the plane can be perfectly centered ball and wings level, then it just snap rolls to left all the sudden.

 

Anyways. Great addition to DCS, loving it along with all the other planes :)

If you press the right control and right shift keys down then use the 4 and 6 keys on the keypad to strafe your view left or right you can see behind the flare gun.

[Chappie]

I do have the same issue Flanker.The airspeed at 210km/h, 1/4 flaps and 2500rpm governor on, trim full FWD. Lift off nice and level with the runway in the windscreen and then that 90 degrees L/H bank hits me even with full R/H rudder and stick 3/4 right. Nothing I do can stop it. So we are doing the same mistake. Can you give me your controls position when that happen please. Regards

 

 

The left roll occurs because you stalled the left wing. If you took off with flaps full (an obvious exaggeration), the left wing won't stall or perhaps should not under all but the most extreme circumstances.

 

One of the most easiest takeoff procedures in the 109 (easier than the 190) is as follows:

 

Line up on the runway and move forward to straighten the tailwheel and then lock it. Interesting to note that locking the tailwheel straightens it though I am not sure if that should.

 

Pull the stick back to the hard stop and into your gut, apply right rudder, and then full power. As speed builds, when the airspeed comes active at about 120 kms/he, lighten stick forces and push the stick forward past neutral and be ready to compensate for gyroscopic precession.

 

Let the aircraft fly off the runway and it will with full power. Clean it up and you are airborne.

 

My style of flying the 109 is radical and departs from congenital technique. Here is what I do:

 

Post-start taxi and line-up with roll to straighten the tailwheel.

 

Stick in my gut, right full rudder, and full power.

 

About 150 kms/he I push stick forward past neutral and activate my governor once wheels lift off.

 

Finally I set my radiator to auto and bring my gear up. I then activate the water-methanol mixture and fly at full power until I feel like reducing throttle.

[Buzzles]

^^ Above works quite well, although I'd say be mindful of needing a touch of right stick as you start pressing forward at 120kph to avoid the left roll tendancy (which is less of an issue using the above method due to picking up more speed before going airborne)

[Lizzard]

for me take off the 109 is quite easy..I had a hard time with the 190...but if you master the 190 the 109 is a piece of cake..but landing the 109 is way harder then the 190..

[badaboom]

Is it me or will the guns not work in this mission?

[flare2000x]

Is it me or will the guns not work in this mission?

 

Make sure they're armed and the safety is off.

[mmaruda]

I'll add my two cents to the mix. Today I managed to do my first clean take-off and landing. It seem the key not to fail miserably is to keep the tail stuck to the ground as long as possible. I had to figure this out the hard way--should have just read what Chappie wrote. With landing it's pretty much the same - you just need to let the plane drop on the runway, because as soon as you touch down, you need to pull that stick back or else you are gonna flip to the side, and you don't want any unnecessary lift when you do that.

 

This seems very weird to me as I have read that the flipping on the found happened a lot, but due to inexperienced pilots wobbling the plane left and right when turning.

 

I am no expert, but something seem off about how DCS handles in this regards. It seems the tail wheel likes to bounce around a lot, if you don't push it down. The manual does not give much insight as to that, nor anything I have read on how the 109 acts IRL.

 

Now that I know how, all I need is some practice, but still, the ground handling in DCS leaves me scratching my head all the time.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

...you need to pull that stick back or else you are gonna flip to the side...

 

Nah you don't need to bring the stick back. You've just got to be very quick and firm on the rudder. You need to catch and stop the slightest yaw before it causes a problem. If you can do this, you don't need the stick back at all (in fact I have it slightly foward on takeoff to prevent unsticking before it's ready to fly).

[shagrat]

Best according to what I learned and tried (most of it from yo-yo's tips) is to give full right rudder stick back one third and a little bit to the right. Now speed up to 2300-2500 RPM/1.4ata (this is mostly training and muscle memory)... immediately after it starts picking up speed, release the stick slowly(!) and keep your eyes on the yaw, it will start yawing right so you need to release the rudder a bit, depending on speed and crosswinds somewhere to 2/3rd of right rudder... by then you should have the stick a bit pushed a bit forward to lift the tail in the wind! As soon as it lifts off, and it will, keep holding it level for a few moments longer... NEVER pull back on the stick to get her airborne! You will stall the plane immediately and then the torque flips you 90* and you crash...

As said you can also start with stick neutral and begin pushing the nose at 100-110 kph, but then you need to anticipate a little roll to the left and counter that with ailerons... I find that more difficult, especially if winds come into play from the wrong side...

[openfalcon68]

Incredibly difficult to take off in this aircraft. A little bit of everything you guys have said works for me and the success rate is still less than fifty percent in about ten attempts.

 

Am at it.

 

Manish

 

PS : Always thought german a/c were better than american ones. After looking at the Mustang, I could not have been more wrong. Wonder how the Luftwaffe pilots coped with this bad boy from Willys farm. Its an absolute horror.

[openfalcon68]

Getting the hang of takeoffs. Landings will need work too.....

 

Manish