Huey problem with trim

[bernp]

Hi all,

Has anyone experienced a problem where you lose all input control to the Huey after setting trim (cannot turn, climb, etc.) and the trim will not release? This is an intermittent problem but always happens at the worst time and requires that I restart the mission.

This problem happens regardless if using the joystick or keyboard to set trim.

Thanks in advance.

Bern

Note: I own most of the DCS modules. The Huey is the only one that has this problem with the trim.

Edited December 13, 2014 by bernp
Clarification

[dooom]

Do you have your controls indicator on? Is it possible you are trying to trim beyond the limits of control throw?

[joey45]

I have this in the Ka-50 once or twice in a blue moon..

[Devrim]

I encountered with this, but I was hit or I hit somewhere etc...

[sobek]

Out of sheer curiosity, why post this in the DCS A-10C bug section? :)

 

Are you using the central release trimming method?

[bernp]

Thank you all for your replies. I'm starting to believe that this problem is unique to my system. I did a couple of test flights this morning. On my first flight my controls froze immediately upon setting trim. (Dooom, I made sure to make only small trim adjustments, thanks for that tip). My second flight, trim worked fine for 15 minutes, setting and releasing trim multiple times. Then setting trim again it locked-up my controls. Unable to change the Huey's path, I watched helplessly as my bird slowly descended into the ground. Very frustrating. Maybe a future update will correct this issue for me? Again, this problem only exists in the huey.

Sobek, I'm not sure if I understand central release trimming method, I think that means moving the trim back to center before releasing trim, which I tried. If it means something else, please let me know.

BTW: sorry if I posted to the wrong forum group. I thought I posted to the "controls/input issues" section. Sounds like it's a subgroup of A10C? I guess I need to read up on posting. Anyway, thanks for letting me know.

 

Thanks again everyone.

Bern

[wolle]

It's probably a different problem than you are having, but just in case:

 

It happens to me randomly (on average maybe every 15mins) during flights that all my controls become unresponsive (it happens in all modules). I can reactivate all the controls by pressing any button on the keyboard.

 

I could completely eliminate the problem by selecting "Full screen mode" in the DCSW options. My theory of why that happens is that unless you select "full screen mode" you run the sim in a window, and it is possible that another window can become the active window. Then your controller inputs are sent to the other active window, and not DCS.

[bernp]

I think I have good news. I verified that I was running in full screen mode in the options section, per Wolle's suggestion. However, I noticed another option "Central Position mode, which was checked. I think this is what Sobek was referring to in his post. I unchecked that box and haven't had my controls freeze for the last 45 minutes, frequently going in and out of trim. That's a new record for me. It's looking like unchecking this option is indeed the fix. Thank you all again and happy Flying!

Bern

[Devrim]

That's what I know (maybe wrong);

 

If you use "Central Position Mode", you must let stick go center completely after trim. If you don't let the stick return to the center, probably that's why you encounter freeze on controls.

[sniperwolfpk5]

It happens to me. Suddenly axis are not working but buttons are working. I think it is due to joystick.

 

I use saitek x52 pro.

[Chappie]

Hi all,

Has anyone experienced a problem where you lose all input control to the Huey after setting trim (cannot turn, climb, etc.) and the trim will not release? This is an intermittent problem but always happens at the worst time and requires that I restart the mission.

This problem happens regardless if using the joystick or keyboard to set trim.

Thanks in advance.

Bern

Note: I own most of the DCS modules. The Huey is the only one that has this problem with the trim.

 

 

Yes, I experienced this. Right after moving my stick in desired position, I set the trim and immediately moved my stick but there was no response. I circled the stick to all stops and then my control was restored. Quite a weird problem.

 

Central Position Trimmer may have been checked but I no longer use it. Now I hold the trim button down and reposition the stick then let the trim button go. Found this to be a better way to apply trim without the rapid pitch up and down of my nose oscillating.

[Devrim]

That's what I know (maybe wrong);

 

If you use "Central Position Mode", you must let stick go center completely after trim. If you don't let the stick return to the center, probably that's why you encounter freeze on controls.

Guys, would you consider this (what I wrote)?

[Lizzard]

Guys, would you consider this (what I wrote)?

 

yeah that is correct. If you use the central position trimmer DCS waits for you the re-center all controls after trimming..as long as the controls are not re-centered DCS ignors ALL Input (to deal with possible DCS overcompensation), and you most likely loose control...so to make a long story short DO NOT USE central position trimmer:) (makes things more complicated..just like the take-off assistance in the WW2 Birds)

Edited December 15, 2014 by Lizzard

[Devrim]

Lizzard Thanks!!! :D

[bernp]

I just want to say what a great forum this is. I was very close to retiring the Huey because of the issue with the trim. Now I'm having a great time flying it, thanks to the participants of this forum. Hope I can return the favor someday.

Bern

[Lizzard]

I just want to say what a great forum this is. I was very close to retiring the Huey because of the issue with the trim. Now I'm having a great time flying it, thanks to the participants of this forum. Hope I can return the favor someday.

Bern

 

 

haha..Dude..the Huey is one of the most fun modules...so don`t let it go just because of the trimmer..btw..the trimm in the Mi-8 works identical..so maybe also interesting..the Hip is also great fun..our beloved flying truck:) Trimming the KA-50 is abit more complicated, because the whole mechanism works a bit different..but also not a big deal once you get it:thumbup:

[Yurgon]

so to make a long story short DO NOT USE central position trimmer:)

 

I had some issues with this when I was still flying the Ka-50, but I just looked and I do have "Central Position Trimmer Mode" checked in the UH-1H and I never had any issues there (my logbook currently shows 46 hours in the Huey, but I'm sure it's actually a lot more). I'd say it's a matter or practice.

 

I think it's a bigger problem when players are simply not aware of it.

 

If I got locked out of my controls for no apparent reason, I would go crazy too. But knowing how this works helps. With "Central Position Trimmer Mode", one simply must center the stick directly after trimming, that's all there is to it. And I don't remember any situation where a locking up of the controls would have caused me to crash. Just takes a little practice. :thumbup:

 

BTW, if anyone is interested in the background story: Why does DCS include this option when it's so dangerous?

 

Well, let's say you have a non force-feedback joystick. You hold the joystick a good bit to the right. Now you push and release the trim button. That tells DCS that, when your physical joystick is centered, the virtual stick in the UH-1H is held a good bit to the right.

The problem is: If your physical joystick is still held to the right, this physical right input now gets added to the virtual right input that's already there, resulting in a control bump.

 

The first solution was to add a delay period where the physical joystick input would be ignored after trim is released. I think that period is 0.5 seconds by default. So after trimming you have half a second to center the physical joystick or the helicopter's controls will bounce.

 

In order to get rid of this bouncing, "Central Position Trimmer Mode" was added later on (this was still back when the Ka-50 was the only DCS helicopter). With this mode active, all control inputs from the joystick are ignored until the joystick is centered. That means that there's no bumping any more, at the cost of potentially getting locked out of the stick controls.

 

(On a side note, in the Ka-50 the rudder is included in the trim mechanism by default and the rudder must be centered as well or the controls will remain locked out. I assume that also happens in the Huey when "Rudder Trimmer" is checked together with "Central Position Trimmer Mode", but I have never tested this).

 

Okay, so much for the history lesson. :smartass:

Edited December 16, 2014 by Yurgon

[Lizzard]

Hi Yurgon,

 

of course you are right..it is a matter of taste an practise..I had better results without that feature. I mean without central position trimmer DCS forces you to re-center anyway...what feels way more natural at least for me:) In the Huey/Hip the trim is pretty easy once you understand it..in the Shark that feature makes eventually more sense because the KA-50 does not reset it`s trimmer to 0 when the trim button is pushed..this behaviour needs more practise and understanding (heavy overcompensation:D)

[Highwayman-Ed]

Since installing a new clean install of the latest version (1.2.12.35194) my Huey wont trim. When I press the T key or the button that I have mapped on my stick, I can see the trim button on the virtual cyclic being pressed, but the helicopter doesn't trim.

 

I don't use central position trim mode, I've tried it to see if that makes a difference but it doesn't.

 

I'm not running any mods, I've run a DCS repair, I've deleted the UH-1H input folder in my saved games directory, I've even removed the entire Huey module and re-downloaded it then re-mapped all of my controls and still the trim wont work, I've also mapped completely different keys as well, but nothing...

 

Any ideas guys?

 

Edit: Completely lost now, it seems neither the Mi-8 or the KA-50 will trim either... Fixed wing aircraft work OK

Edited December 19, 2014 by Highwayman-Ed

[Chic]

yeah that is correct. If you use the central position trimmer DCS waits for you the re-center all controls after trimming..as long as the controls are not re-centered DCS ignors ALL Input (to deal with possible DCS overcompensation), and you most likely loose control...so to make a long story short DO NOT USE central position trimmer:) (makes things more complicated..just like the take-off assistance in the WW2 Birds)

 

Its worth noting that in Lizzard's statement he indicates that "all controls" must be re-centered. Including pedals.

 

SO, you might consider disabling rudder trimmer instead of central position trimmer mode. I have found re-centering the pedals cumbersome, and occasionally delays recovery of controls.

 

EDIT: Just saw Yurgon"s closing line. Didn't mean to be redundant.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Chic
Just saw Yurgon"s closing line. Didn't mean to be redundant.

[Highwayman-Ed]

Since installing a new clean install of the latest version (1.2.12.35194) my Huey wont trim. When I press the T key or the button that I have mapped on my stick, I can see the trim button on the virtual cyclic being pressed, but the helicopter doesn't trim.

 

I don't use central position trim mode, I've tried it to see if that makes a difference but it doesn't.

 

I'm not running any mods, I've run a DCS repair, I've deleted the UH-1H input folder in my saved games directory, I've even removed the entire Huey module and re-downloaded it then re-mapped all of my controls and still the trim wont work, I've also mapped completely different keys as well, but nothing...

 

Any ideas guys?

 

Edit: Completely lost now, it seems neither the Mi-8 or the KA-50 will trim either... Fixed wing aircraft work OK

 

Thanks to Flagrum that helped me spot that Force Feed Back had been turned on by default in my new clean install of 1.2.12.35194 and that was stuffing up the trim in THIS POST

[Lizzard]

Its worth noting that in Lizzard's statement he indicates that "all controls" must be re-centered. Including pedals.

 

Oh dear... I am really sorry having tried to help bernp...so thank you for clearing things up Sir!

[Yurgon]

Since installing a new clean install of the latest version (1.2.12.35194) my Huey wont trim.

 

Do you have Options -> Misc. -> Force Feedback checked? If so, un-check it.

 

Edit: Oh, there was already a third page? Well, glad you got it sorted out. :)

[Ramjet]

I've just purchased Huey today.

 

I will say, I already find it easier to trim the Huey than the Blackshark :)

 

I am having a problem, though. Not using the best stick for the huey, but I have an x52 pro that I am using.

 

The issue arises when mapping my trim. I map trim to button "c" on the cyclic. I attempted to map trim reset to button "c" + pinkie mod. However, when I do this, the aircraft will no longer trim. If I map trim reset to a completely different button on my hotas, then I can trim the huey as normal.

 

There seems to be a bug that breaks the trim with the x52 pro, if you map trim reset to the same button you mapped trim to (plus modifier of course).

 

Has anyone else encountered this?

 

EDIT: on a side note... after putting in a couple of hours getting the feel for it, this thing is a ton of fun to fly. Great first impression. Can't wait for that Cobra Belsimtek is allegedly cooking up :)

Edited December 20, 2014 by Ramjet