Valve/HTC Vive Discussion

[grammaton_feather]

I have to crank all my details quite low, and even then, still dip below 75FPS which hurts.

 

Having said that, my CPU is old, and my video cards aren't great (crossfire doesn't seem to work for me). It will be interesting to see how optimised Nevada is - that will be a truer test than the current map, I'd say.

 

I think to get the most out of VR (especially in DCS), anyone that wants in is going to have to upgrade their gear, if they're not running current mid-high range.

 

I have a GTX 680 which is obviously old now but it's overclocked high along with my i5 2500k and the ram.

 

I'm able to run FSX ok on Oculus and a lot of other games and demos.

 

I doubt Nevada will be any different because it's the DCS engine that needs to be optimized.

[hansangb]

I was thinking that the wand idea was a bad one too, until I realised that I use the mouse without much trouble with the DK2, and there isn't even a representation of that in the sim; I'm using it blind, which I doubt will be the case with Vive wands/Touch. And having a representation in-game, along with intuitive "switchology", should be highly intuitive.

 

 

True. I use the mouse w/o much trouble. But I'm wondering what the wand would bring to the table. The representation of your own arm? I suppose that could work. So long as it's accurate enough like a mouse. If it's anything like Leap, it just won't work.

[Chivas]

I don't see that taking off, no pun intended.

 

 

 

I was thinking that the wand idea was a bad one too, until I realised that I use the mouse without much trouble with the DK2, and there isn't even a representation of that in the sim; I'm using it blind, which I doubt will be the case with Vive wands/Touch. And having a representation in-game, along with intuitive "switchology", should be highly intuitive.

 

 

I never once thought it would take off. It was just a mod idea that some people might contemplate if they were really into clickable cockpits. To many unknowns, at this point, and would depend on the accuracy of the VR inputs, and how well the sim integrates VR inputs. The physical docking stations would be relatively easy to create, as there would be no electronics required.

[Chivas]

Not a problem for Vive anymore.:thumbup:

 

Oh the perception problem is obviously still there. Which you've statement proves.

[S3NTRY11]

The physical docking stations would be relatively easy to create, as there would be no electronics required.

I look forward to seeing the prototypes.

[Chivas]

I look forward to seeing the prototypes.

 

You probably won't see any mods of that type from me. I have no use for clickable cockpits, and prefer programming actions to my HOTA's actual switches/rotaries, with their inherent haptic feedback. I don't see gloves having quality haptic feedback for sometime, and one of the reasons some people might prefer the Touch inputs for clickable cockpits.

[S3NTRY11]

Lots of glove options coming. This is the future of VR sims.

 

http://www.wareable.com/vr/manus-machina-wireless-gloves-hand-tracking-oculus-rift-gear-vr-htc-vive-osvr-1517

Hell yeah! Now we're talking.

[vicx]

Chivas, I could bind every switch to my HOTAS using modifiers but I don't really want to do that with my full flavour DCS modules. Part of what makes DCS unique is the extra detail of having clickable switchgear in modules like Mi-8 (my favourite module right now).

 

Using the mouse for switchgear with the DK2 is a bit annoying BUT not for the reason you might think. The main irritating thing with the mouse is that the screen the mouse operates in is windowed and you can travel outside the windows and lose the cursor. Making the window fullscreen doesn't seem to trap the mouse the way it does normally. When you actually have the mouse in your window it is easy enough to use. I should probably report that instead of putting up with it.

 

As for using a wand. I think I would easily adapt to using a wand. I think it would be easier to sue than a mouse and and also more enjoyable. There are some very cool mechanisms already available in DCS that will make using a wand easier. The 3D hint boxes used for tutorials could be adapted to show a moving translucent 3D pointer when the wand is active. In VR those helper regions look really cool.

 

Not on topic but relevant. I generally like the pilot body but sometimes I wonder if it would be nice to have the option of having it partially translucent - kind of a shadow showing where the body is than an actual photoreal body. In the KA-50 some of those switches on the right are just annoying to access with the player body in the way.

 

Lots of glove options coming. This is the future of VR sims.

 

Icarus ... as cool as those gloves are they are (VERY COOL) very much overkill for DCS because all you need in DCS is a pointer. In DCS you don't really pick things up and manipulate them which is the application these gloves are aimed at and why they cost so much. I think a very simple pointer token or coin tiny want that sits in holder in your cockpit space would be sufficient. Like a wand but much more basic and much smaller.

[TomOnSteam]

I was thinking about the wand thing. I'm starting to think that these are almost too complicated. I think at most all I would need is a wand or even air mouse stuck to my left forearm, and then I would have a picky button on the joystick do a mouse click.

 

That would allow me to move my left arm onto a button position and use my right hand pinky to click the button.

[hansangb]

Well, they do make those 3D spacial mouse. The only thing is, as mentioned earlier, once the mouse goes beyond the screen, you can lose the cursorm.

 

I guess the wand would serve similar purpose as a 3D mouse.

[Chivas]

Vicx... interesting point about the pilots body/arms. Jobsimulator working with Oculus Touch and the Vive wands found that modeling the whole body can cause lose of presence, when peoples actual body movement was slightly different than what is displayed, as just the hand area is actually tracked. They found that its best just to display hands, and peoples brains just fill in the other body parts with few issues.

[vicx]

Vicx... interesting point about the pilots body/arms. Jobsimulator working with Oculus Touch and the Vive wands found that modeling the whole body can cause lose of presence, when peoples actual body movement was slightly different than what is displayed, as just the hand area is actually tracked. They found that its best just to display hands, and peoples brains just fill in the other body parts with few issues.

 

Yeah that is interesting. I wonder if that uncanny body effect is more noticeable in room-scale applications. In a cockpit I do want body representation but something that is a fuzzy generic shape rather than an attempt at photorealism. I guess that does qualify as an attempt to avoid the uncanny valley.

[Chivas]

As I suspected HTC is hinting that the Vive will be delayed until early next year. The good news is they expect the available content will be as high as three digits. Expect announcement in the coming weeks, probably before the end of the year. [ame]

[/ame]

[Chivas]

Elite Dangerous is still working with Oculus. Elite Dangerous is having issues with Oculus's lastest SDK version. I can see there being issues until the consumer versions SDK is released. It must be a real pain in the arse to constantly revise your software to fit continually changing SDK's for unfinished hardware.

 

Thing's should be ironed out by the time the consumer versions are released, and become another pain in the arse when next consumer versions come out.

[cichlidfan]

So here they are, read and weep, cause ain't gonna be cheap..:cry:.

 

That doesn't look bad at all. I wouldn't consider building a less powerful game machine in the first place.

[vicx]

I think everyone with a DK2 who plays DCS is finding that those specs are probably the minimum to play the DCS too. At least the Nevada map.

 

I still think there is something not quite right in DCS 2.0 at the moment. People with a GTX980 should be able to get a consistent 75fps on LOW setting. I am doing some experiments to work out what might be the problem.

[Chivas]

 

Nice clouds, to bad it seems to be a Sony HMD exclusive. I doubt that it will have enough complexity for the hardcore cfs community, but it could eventually interest more people into complex sims. :)

[Frusheen]

General release date is announced. April 2016.

 

7000 kits available to developers after Christmas.

 

Bad news for those expecting this thing to be available this year.

[TomOnSteam]

General release date is announced. April 2016.

 

7000 kits available to developers after Christmas.

 

Bad news for those expecting this thing to be available this year.

 

april.... :(

 

Edit: actually that's not necessarily a bad thing, as that is probably when nVidia's new graphics cards will come out, so might work out very well.

[Frusheen]

I'm not holding out much hope for the vive. At least not in a Valve/HTC partnership.

 

They've gone from an imminent consumer release to now a second dev kit with no warning and their executive director of global marketing has just jumped ship. It doesn't sit well.

[vicx]

Good news to have some proper dates. It is easier now to enjoy what we have and to make plans.

 

I will be working VR optimisation project for Caucasus Map. Seeking people who have experience

• tweaking textures and lua configurations.
  
• editing and modifying edterrain objects.
  
• editing shaders
  

 

their executive director of global marketing has just jumped ship

Hah that doesn't worry me at all. If that worries you ... you worry too much.

Edited December 9, 2015 by vicx

[Chivas]

You always have to expect delays, and thought from the start that Vive's first announcement would be very difficult to accomplish, especially since their last prototypes, were still missing features like Audio, etc. I would imagine their next dev prototype will include the audio features, etc so software devs can better optimize their content.

 

Oculus should come out sooner than the Vive, but again the release dates should be close enough that it really doesn't matter, as most people will give specs/content/price a much higher priority.

 

This change in release timing, now gives Vive a slight edge, as Oculus will likely announce their Specs/Content bundle/Price first allowing Vive to counter. One example could be a better Content bundle, etc etc depending on the hardware /content/price contrasts.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Chivas

[spacenavy90]

I'm definitely excited for the Vive. I was a developer for the DK2 from Oculus but I had a few problems with it that I hope HTC and Valve have fixed somehow, namely simulator sickness.

 

I definitely won't be picking one up right away though. I'd rather wait to see what peoples impressions are and wait for more support to generate for it. Possibly a sale as well, but that may be asking too much. :D

[Chivas]

I'm definitely excited for the Vive. I was a developer for the DK2 from Oculus but I had a few problems with it that I hope HTC and Valve have fixed somehow, namely simulator sickness.

 

I definitely won't be picking one up right away though. I'd rather wait to see what peoples impressions are and wait for more support to generate for it. Possibly a sale as well, but that may be asking too much. :D

 

The Vive unit might well be the best VR product, but Oculus isn't selling the DK2 as the consumer version. I didn't like my DK2 either, as I couldn't adjust it to suit my IPD. I still have hopes as the CV1 will have a physical IPD adjustment, and the Eve Valkyrie devs suggest that first time users are playing their sim for hours with no simulator sickness problems.

 

I think the new VR hardware is beyond the simulation sickness problem for most people, BUT simulation sickness can still be a problem IF the software developers don't follow the VR best practices guide. They can create software that could make most people sick, no matter how good the hardware is.

[Chivas]

HTC Vive is suggesting preorders will start in Feb.