Multiseat licensing

[Alicatt]

Depending on how much and how well of the RIO's office is simulated it could make an involved set of game play in it's self.

 

How much of the radar ECM and ECCM can be implemented in DCS, are the other modules and systems from other 3rd party developers going to be compliant with what the Mig-21bis and in the future the F-14a/b going to bring to the sim?

[Overvolt]

The ideia is good, i think the aplication maybe not so simple. Lets see what LN do.

[tsb47]

People come to DCS to FLY not to be relegated to the back seat.

 

...

 

I don't think LNS needs to make the backseat available to anyone who doesn't own the full module. I don't think LNS will lose any sales going that approach. I've yet to meet anyone that just wants to be only a RIO.

 

...

 

Just checking the logic on this.

 

You say: no-one would buy RIO-only. I totally agree. But surely that means there's no downside to making RIO-only free-to-play - Leatherneck can't lose sales of a RIO-only product that no-one would have bought. Also, isn't there the upside that if someone does try RIO part of f-14 (because it's free) they might like what they see and buy the full product?

 

tsb47

[Winfield_Gold]

^Yes but how many people only want to be a RIO, and never fly the plane themselves?

(I don't know!)

Yes you might lose some sales, but you also might gain some because the back seat works like a demo/teaser.

 

I'd like to fly as RIO. I think it would be good to have knowledge of both sides of the coin.

 

If I created a mission in the ME, will there be an option so that I can choose to be RIO with an AI pilot?

[tsb47]

I'd like to fly as RIO. I think it would be good to have knowledge of both sides of the coin.

 

And I'd like to fly a Vietnam-era Mig-21 against period opponents like the F-100. But I was told it wasn't going to happen. (sad face)

 

If I created a mission in the ME, will there be an option so that I can choose to be RIO with an AI pilot?

 

Hope so. Dunno how smart the pilot would be tho'! Stock AI might need some work.

[HeadHunter52]

RIO should be free, with the obvious caveat that he fly with a "licensed" pilot.

[S-GERAT]

RIO should be free, with the obvious caveat that he fly with a "licensed" pilot.

 

Isn't a bad idea, usually most of us buy all the developers launch to market, and nobody of us is going to play only RIO.

 

The idea is interesting because allows to introduce people who don't have a joystick, people that hopefully can like it and invest for a joystick and the full module.

[Jerkzilla]

I'd buy a 10 or 15$ RIO-only license for a friend or two that have no joystick or inclination to try it full. Considering that person won't have access to flight dynamics, half the ASM, the jester AI, I would think it's a bit of a stretch to charge the full price. I don't have the funds for a second copy so that's some extra cash in their pocket they wouldn't get otherwise.

 

 

Obviously up to them to figure out if theres enough people like me to offset the effort of making this license available plus the lost sales to people that could and would have bought a second fully priced copy for a RIO friend.

[Focha]

This does not make sense.

 

First, why split the simulation in two when you can have both.

 

Second, because that would translate in more complex code.

 

Third, sooner or later all modules have sales, having its prices really low.

 

For me it doesn't make any sense, but that is just me.

[WHOGX5]

Since DCS World is free, if the RIO seat would be free as well (if flown in multiplayer together with someone who owns the module), that would be a great way to give people who don't play DCS a taste of what it's like. No one (who isn't already a flight enthusiast) is going to spend money on a joystick and a TrackIR, just to see if this sort of thing is my bag, baby. If they could jump into the pit after learning the RIO equipment and get a taste of intense air combat and the stress of trapping a wire, that might just get them over the fence. If not, then no harm done. And on the subject of money, what DCS pilot would choose not to buy the module and instead spend all of his time in multiplayer flying as a RIO just to not have to pay?

 

I just don't think there is anything to be lost by doing this. On the contrary, I think it will do good for LNS the DCS community as a whole.

 

And just to clarify, the person in the backseat, whether it be in a F-14 or a Hawk, should NOT be able to take over the stick. They should only be able to control the weapon systems, flick some switches, and enjoy the view.

[Dudikoff]

And just to clarify, the person in the backseat, whether it be in a F-14 or a Hawk, should NOT be able to take over the stick. They should only be able to control the weapon systems, flick some switches, and enjoy the view.

 

So, these free licence Tomcat RIO's should not be able to do what they're anyway not able to do (control the plane), but should be able to do what they're not able to do in real life (control the weapon systems)? ;)

[bart]

This does not make sense.

 

First, why split the simulation in two when you can have both.

 

Second, because that would translate in more complex code.

 

Third, sooner or later all modules have sales, having its prices really low.

 

For me it doesn't make any sense, but that is just me.

 

Agreed...............

 

Plus the extra work that has to go into developing a two seat module has to be paid for some how, otherwise the two seat option may not prove to be financially viable for third party developers or even ED to make. I think it would be wrong to have the two seat modules retailing at a higher price than other single seat modules, so I think the only other way to make the numbers add up is that both parties in the aircraft would need a full licence each.

 

My two cents anyway.......

Edited March 5, 2015 by bart

[Fixxxer46]

I feel it would just complicate things.

 

Besides, DCS World comes with a free SU-25T & Unarmed P-51. (Regarding making RIO free)

 

Usable joysticks are so cheap nowadays, and you DON'T need TrackIR to enjoy flight(hell. not even a joystick). That's for people who really gets into simming. I'ts an addon for intermediate and up.

 

Are there stats on how many people that use game mode versus simulation?

I'm sure there has to be stats on how many of the licences go online?

 

Would the target audience for a free RIO (if you look away from the already free stuff in DCS World) really be that big to make it worth it?

[tsb47]

Agreed...............

 

Plus the extra work that has to go into developing a two seat module has to be paid for some how, otherwise the two seat option may not prove to be financially viable for third party developers or even ED to make. I think it would be wrong to have the two seat modules retailing at a higher price than other single seat modules, so I think the only other way to make the numbers add up is that both parties in the aircraft would need a full licence each.

 

My two cents anyway.......

 

Exactly zero people are going to buy the module to play RIO so making people pay to play RIO is going to make zero dollars. But making RIO free-to-play will give people a chance to see the quality of the module, and they might buy the full module as a result. That will generate sales.

Edited March 5, 2015 by tsb47

[Scoggs]

I personally think they should release a tiered system. Have the Tomcat as standalone where only people who own the module can join another pilot as a RIO at theat tier. The second tier would be an additional $10-15 added to the module allowing for anyone to join the pilot who owns the Tomcat+RIO package.

 

I think this for two reasons.

 

1. It will cost time and money for the multiplayer RIO seat to be created, implemented, and tested.

2. Licensing issues like this will have to be solved in the end anyways as this will become a DCS:World feature anyways.

[Fixxxer46]

dont get me wrong, i would love to have the option to take someone for a ride in the backseat, where he can sit, watch, but otherwise is unable to do anything.

 

 

What about making the spectator mode look through the RIO/Co pilot/WSO seat(if it's not occupied by a player? Or even spectate from the cockpit? (don't know how spectating works, never tried)

[NineLine]

What about making the spectator mode look through the RIO/Co pilot/WSO seat(if it's not occupied by a player? Or even spectate from the cockpit? (don't know how spectating works, never tried)

 

Yeah, I always hoped for a spectate from the players view, that would be cool.

[WHOGX5]

I feel it would just complicate things.

 

Besides, DCS World comes with a free SU-25T & Unarmed P-51. (Regarding making RIO free)

 

Usable joysticks are so cheap nowadays, and you DON'T need TrackIR to enjoy flight(hell. not even a joystick). That's for people who really gets into simming. I'ts an addon for intermediate and up.

 

Are there stats on how many people that use game mode versus simulation?

I'm sure there has to be stats on how many of the licences go online?

 

Would the target audience for a free RIO (if you look away from the already free stuff in DCS World) really be that big to make it worth it?

 

Sure joysticks are cheap (depending on what you compare it to), but would you spend $50 on a USB tennis racket, even though you might only use it two or three times, to see if you liked a tennis-sim? I don't know about you, but I find it very hard to enjoy DCS without a HOTAS and a TrackIR. FSX, for example, is very enjoyable with a bottom shelf joystick and no TrackIR, as it doesn't require the same ability to keep situational awareness while pulling off disorienting maneuvers and to be able to switch between radar modes, weapon bays, countermeasure programs, and so on, without letting go of your throttle and stick. That's the pro of the RIO seat. You can control the avionics with your keyboard and pan your view with your mouse since you don't have to worry about flying. And about the TF-51 and the SU-25T, they're great for people who already fly other flight sims and thus have enough skills to quickly get into DCS without much of a learning curve, but I think it's easier to give the average "non-simmer" a taste of what DCS and the module in question is really like if they can fly along with a "pro" and get a taste of real combat rather than trying to fly an entire mission on their own when they barely manage to take off properly.

 

And considering that the target audience would be pretty much everyone who is on the fence when it comes to realistic flight sims, I'd say it's a well worth trade off.

 

I personally think they should release a tiered system. Have the Tomcat as standalone where only people who own the module can join another pilot as a RIO at theat tier. The second tier would be an additional $10-15 added to the module allowing for anyone to join the pilot who owns the Tomcat+RIO package.

 

I think this for two reasons.

 

1. It will cost time and money for the multiplayer RIO seat to be created, implemented, and tested.

2. Licensing issues like this will have to be solved in the end anyways as this will become a DCS:World feature anyways.

 

I wouldn't pay 15 extra bucks just so that someone can sit in my plane once or twice for free. The people I play DCS with on a regular basis and who will be flying with me 99% of the time, as both RIOs and pilots, are already eagerly waiting for the F-14 to be released, just like me and, I assume, every other person in this thread. The reason I think it's a good idea being able to be the RIO without owning the module is that, without trying to sound too cheesy, there are so many emotions you feel when you're flying in combat that you simply can't convey through words. The feeling of desperately trying to find a missile trail just after a surprise SAM launch. The feeling of limping home with a damaged aircraft with only fumes left in the tanks. The feeling of trying to catch a wire in strong crosswinds, at night, in poor visibility. The feeling of being in a chaotic dogfight, trying to differentiate between friend and foe before you fire that sidewinder, all while you have someone trying to get on your six. It's a big difference watching all of this happen in a let's play on youtube, and actually being there.

 

Exactly zero people are going to buy the module to play RIO so making people pay to play RIO is going to make zero dollars. But making RIO free-to-play will give people a chance to see the quality of the module, and they might buy the full module as a result. That will generate sales.

 

This!

 

What about making the spectator mode look through the RIO/Co pilot/WSO seat(if it's not occupied by a player? Or even spectate from the cockpit? (don't know how spectating works, never tried)

 

This is a feature I'd personally love to see in DCS!

Edited March 6, 2015 by WHOGX5

[bin801]

after hours dogfight, I'd like to jump in cockpit work as RIO for someone, Hahahaha. Applaud for F-14 multirole

[Roadrunner]

you know what i would realy love to do with the tomcat?

 

take someone who isnt in flight sims, push him an oculus rift over the head, make him sit in the RIO seat and give him the ride of his life :D

 

guess for some it would be an interesting experience :)

[159th_Falcon]

you know what i would realy love to do with the tomcat?

 

take someone who isnt in flight sims, push him an oculus rift over the head, make him sit in the RIO seat and give him the ride of his life :D

 

guess for some it would be an interesting experience :)

 

Lol, +1.

 

Now, where are those bridges again.:joystick:

[PFunk1606688187]

Just let people ride in the backseat free with no ability to do anything but look around in awe. It'd be like DCS letting people give incentive flights.

[Dudikoff]

Just let people ride in the backseat free with no ability to do anything but look around in awe. It'd be like DCS letting people give incentive flights.

 

That sounds like the already proposed spectator mode - feels like something that should be done on the DCS level and not for twin-seaters only.