Jump to content

90+ frames/sec - overkill?


Recommended Posts

Hello all, I did a search but didn't see an answer to my question.

 

I just finished a PC build and fired up DCS A-10C for the first time and was happy to see that it was running between 85 and about 100 fps at max settings. However, since my monitor is at 60hz @ 1920x1080, is there a benefit to having over 60fps? I have vsync off and haven't noticed tearing. I don't want to push my hardware too hard if I don't have to but I'm not sure if capping fps makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your monitor is 60hz you won't see any more than 60 fps.

Windows 10 Home, Intel Core i7-9700K @ 4.6GHz, Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming (8GB VRAM) on 34" LG curved monitor @ 3440x1440, 32GB RAM, TrackIR 3 (with Vector Expansion), Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Saitek Combat Pedals, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO most importantly if your average FPS is 50 or more than the greatest concern is what is the lowest FPS you can encounter during gameplay? Try flying low altitude over a city with both TGP and maverick MFCD pages shown. See how CBU explosions slow your rates and mirrors as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to wreck the vibe but tearing is a massive downside. I would downsample for a crisper image and switch vsync on.

 

It's a matter of personal preference. Tearing does not bother me in most case and I have noticed that vsync can lead to loss of framerate in a bunch of games, so I tend to keep vsync off. I only turn it on if the tearing is reaaaally bad, which is rare.


Edited by Genchou
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note that vsync in most games nowadays (including DCS) is adaptive vsync. Meaning when your GPU renders at 60 FPS or higher it'll kick in and limit FPS to 60 as to prevent tearing and maintain consistent smoothness/accuracy. When FPS drops below 60 however, vsync is turned off so the game won't limit you to keep a constant 30 FPS or even 20 FPS.

i7 4790K: 4.8GHz, 1.328V (manual)

MSI GTX 970: 1,504MHz core, 1.250V, 8GHz memory

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No worries. A computer can work at 100% essentially indefinitely. When your computer breaks down after 20 years you'll have bought another one 15 years ago anyway.

You can cap fps with software such as MSI Afterburner and I do it (only to avoid screen-tearing) but I wouldn't believe there's any significant difference in endurance or electricity usage even.

V-sync should stay on but some games such as DCS if I remember correctly will drag your fps all the way down to 20-30 as soon as you drop below 60 and that's ill.


Edited by Addewang
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have always run vsync and have never experienced what you guys are describing. Wether I force normal vsync in nvidia control panel or just have it enabled in game it never drops me down to a cap of 30 or 40 when your not able to maintain 60fps. Are you guys using dynamic vsync or something? And why would you?

I7 4770k @ 4.6, sli 980 evga oc edition, ssdx2, Sony 55 inch edid hack nvidia 3dvision. Volair sim pit, DK2 Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find that turning on Adaptive Vsync in Nvidia CP works very well with DCS

i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DCS offers adaptive vsync as well if you turn it on ingame and leave the nv panel set to app controlled. As a general ROT when an option is offered to be set in the nv panel as well as in the game itself you will want to use the game's setting for optimal performance. Basically the nv panel enforces settings that the game by itself might not support.

i7 4790K: 4.8GHz, 1.328V (manual)

MSI GTX 970: 1,504MHz core, 1.250V, 8GHz memory

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find that turning on Adaptive Vsync in Nvidia CP works very well with DCS

 

Well if I ever stop flying with the rift and go back to my tv what benefits does it bring you? I don't see how being locked at 30 frames compared to running at say 54 frames since it dropped below 60 how that would be better?

I7 4770k @ 4.6, sli 980 evga oc edition, ssdx2, Sony 55 inch edid hack nvidia 3dvision. Volair sim pit, DK2 Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DCS offers adaptive vsync as well if you turn it on ingame and leave the nv panel set to app controlled. As a general ROT when an option is offered to be set in the nv panel as well as in the game itself you will want to use the game's setting for optimal performance. Basically the nv panel enforces settings that the game by itself might not support.

 

Weird that's how I run it but adaptive vsync does not lock me down to 40 or 30 fpS. Which I'm honestly glad it doesn't as its smoother when it drops to say mid 50's

I7 4770k @ 4.6, sli 980 evga oc edition, ssdx2, Sony 55 inch edid hack nvidia 3dvision. Volair sim pit, DK2 Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP out of curiosity what's your rig spec? I got a brand new x99 system with 16gb of DDR4 and a GTX970 with good i7 running at 3.9ghz (need to overclock some more) but DCS will often slow to a crawl on a busy MP server and struggle to deliver more than 30-40 fps, where tearing becomes and issue for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use Adaptive as it allows the frames to smoothly drop down to what ever DCS can output, instead of instantaneously dropping to 1/2 framerate values.

To further reduce tearing when running over 60Hz, I overclocked my monitor to 75Hz

My gaming system is pure DCS. Nothing but DCS, every bit of software that does not belong there is not there.... I hope!

HP G2 Reverb, Windows VR setting: IPD is 64.5mm, High image quality, 90Hz refresh rate. Steam: VR SS set to 100%, motionReprojectionMode set to "motionreproduction" and Locked in at 45 Hz display,

DCS: Pixel Density 1.0, Forced IPD at 55 (perceived world size), 0 X MSAA, 0 X SSAA. My real IPD is 64.5mm. Prescription VROptition lenses installed. VR Driver system: I9-9900KS 5Ghz CPU. XI Hero motherboard and RTX 3090 graphics card, 64 gigs Ram, No OC at the mo.

Vaicom user. Thrustmeter warthog user. MFG pedals with damper upgrade.... and what an upgrade! Total controls Apache MPDs set to virtual Realiy height.... . fabulous!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...ok.

 

Right, FPS and Refresh Rate are not interchangeable, they are not the same thing.

 

Your monitor will always run at the same refresh rate, regardless of what it's showing, in most cases that's 60Hz. In English that means it's refreshing the picture 60 times per second, regardless of how fast that picture is actually changing.

 

When you are playing a game your graphics card is working as hard as it can to draw/render the picture you are seeing on the screen. If it's rendering 1fps (frame per second) then your view is redrawn once a second. However your monitor is still refreshing that 1 picture 60 times a second.

 

The more frames per second your graphics card can draw the smoother the action is. When you reach 60fps your graphics card is rendering 1 frame per monitor refresh. When your monitor reaches 61+ fps your monitor will now start to show partially drawn frames because it's refresh does not match the graphics card output. This is what is known as "tearing".

 

Tearing is where you are seeing part of one frame and part of another. In fast moving scenes this can give a distorted look.

 

When you set VSYNC you are limiting the GPU output fps to the refresh rate of the monitor. This means that you will never get a partially drawn frame in the refresh, so you won't get tearing.

 

VSYNC only stops the GPU from outputting more frames than your monitors refresh rate, this might be more than 60hz with bigger/better gaming monitors.

 

However we have a major problem with VSYNC. When the frames are below 60, VSYNC's next stop is 30fps (because 30 goes into 60hz twice - thus no tearing). So if you are getting 60fps happily and then get 59, the GPU will be instantly limited to 30. When the GPU is capable of drawing 60fps again it jumps back up. The problem is, if your hovering around 60fps you will get stuttering as the frame rate changes between 30 and 60 constantly. Bigger problems occur when you drop below 30fps, at 29 you drop to 20 (because 20 goes 3 times into 60) and then 15 (you get the idea). This is where adaptive VSYNC comes in.

 

Adaptive VSYNC only enables VSYNC when the FPS is over the monitor refresh rate. When it's under it disables VSYNC and allows the GPU to draw the frames as fast as it can. This means that the frame rate is smoother and more consistent, both preventing tearing and stuttering (to a degree).

 

You may also have "Adaptive 30fps" or "Adaptive half refresh rate", which is exactly the same as the full adaptive VSYNC, but this time the limit is half the refresh rate. This means your GPU never tries to push above, in our example, 30fps. If you can't quite keep 60fps, then locking it at 30fps is going to almost guarantee consistent 30fps frame rate, no dips or stuttering and no tearing.

 

VSYNC does not really save power or reduce GPU wear, instead it's running the same as it ever was, but is now throwing away un-required frames. If you could run at 900 fps, then that's what the card is going to do, but instead of trying to display those 900 frames it's going to throw most of them away when using VSYNC. However, there is something that can limit your FPS thus saving power and reducing wear, it's called Frame Limiting.

 

Frame limiting is starting to come out in games, but isn't currently available in DCS. If the GPU is capable of 61fps and you enable frame limiting then you won't see any saving in power/wear on the GPU. However if it will quite happily sit at 90fps, then you will see a difference. The GPU won't have to work anywhere near as hard thus it won't use as much power and won't need to cool as much etc.

 

A couple of caveats:

 

1) Tearing is still possible even below the monitor refrash rate VSYNC cap - It's just not really noticeable.

 

2) Faster games, where reactions are key, can benefit from GPU's not being limited because of input polling - This creates a lag/distortion between input and what's shown on the screen. At high level FPS gaming this can kill you...apparently.

 

To the OP:

 

Yes it's overkill for DCS - Enable VSYNC.


Edited by DTWD
Updated information based on new information. I was partially wrong before about frame limiting.
  • Like 3

Regards

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]



Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perfectly said. For games other than fast paced FPS, so that would include flightsims, in case your GPU can't keep up you're often better off with a constant 30FPS instead of a continuously changing FPS between 30 and 60.

 

Back to the OP, for the current dev kit of the rift you do need a constant 90 (or was it 95?) FPS in order for it to work and to not puke your guts out after 30 minutes of simming. I believe this is one of the major drawbacks of the current build since there are hardly any modern games that can run at a minimum of 90 FPS at all times with decent settings.

 

And since we're in the FPS/Hz discussion anyway, there's a new technology called G-sync monitors. G-sync monitors have a dynamic refresh rate (as opposed to the fixed 60 Hz of the majority of screens) that can be controlled by the GPU. This means that vsync is no longer needed as the screen will only refresh its image when it recieves a new input by the GPU. It is supposed to offer a smoother experience in cases where your GPU can't pull 60 FPS. Whether it is actually worth the bang for buck (around 450 or 500 for a G-sync screen) I'll leave up to those who actually have a G-sync screen.

i7 4790K: 4.8GHz, 1.328V (manual)

MSI GTX 970: 1,504MHz core, 1.250V, 8GHz memory

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In regards to the rift if your not at a constant 75 it does not make you want to puke. 50 and 60 are fine. Also with this sim current engine it's not so much a stressor on the gpu as it is the cpu. The Vr manufacturers just need to make their products dynamic. Aka alow the low persistence to kick in at 60 instead of 75 or 90. Make it modular and selectable.

I7 4770k @ 4.6, sli 980 evga oc edition, ssdx2, Sony 55 inch edid hack nvidia 3dvision. Volair sim pit, DK2 Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then I was probably talking about an earlier build/version which still had the requirement of FPS into the 90ies in order to provide a smooth and accurate experience. Still, 60FPS constant is not something easily achieved on the mid-end rigs of today.

i7 4790K: 4.8GHz, 1.328V (manual)

MSI GTX 970: 1,504MHz core, 1.250V, 8GHz memory

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...