What is TWS good for?

[rami80]

Ever since the pfm upgrade I've found myself using TWS less frequently. In scan mode all visible targets are displayed on the HDD with their speed(not in numbers) and relative altitude. Besides the fact that TWS goes dead in the presence of jamming, placing the box over a contact does not show the speed and altitude anymore. Which makes me wonder, what is the point of having TWS mode? Is is it still useful for anything? Is there something about is which is not modeled yet?

[Steel Jaw]

Well, with the Slammer, TWS allows you to engage multiple targets at once. Dont recall what Russian missile is the AIM120's equivalent.

[OnlyforDCS]

The Su27 can't carry the russian equivalent of the Slammer. I believe the main point of TWS in the Su27 is the same as it is in the F15C. Achieving lock withut letting the enemy RWR know that you have a lock on them. (Please correct me if Im wrong, I have limited BVR experience in the Su27)

[feefifofum]

Problem is, as soon as you get to first pole in TWS mode, it automatically switches to STT.

[Nooch]

I might be wrong but I believe the R-77 is the AIM-120's equivalent.

[rami80]

Guys I'm asking about the Su-27's TWS, please don't let this become another R-77/AIM-120 thread.

[Ironhand]

Admittedly I haven't paid much attention to TWS mode myself but it should provide you with the velocity vectors, altitudes (length of the cross stroke) and air speeds (length of the velocity vector) of the contacts. But, like I said, I haven't used it for a long time. Is it not doing this? What it won't do is provide you with a "stealth" launch.

[nickexists]

As far as I can tell TWS provides no information that scan doesn't.

[Ironhand]

As far as I can tell TWS provides no information that scan doesn't.

Interesting. I'll check it out myself either this evening or first thing tomorrow, unless you get an unequivocal answer before then.

[Frostie]

As far as I can tell TWS provides no information that scan doesn't.

 

One small difference is that you can select targets without locking, this puts the wingman number next to the aircraft selected in datalink for the flight connected to see, all this whilst not losing the overall scan picture is beneficial to help sort targets.

This sharing feature is not available in mp yet but hopefully it will someday.

[Weta43]

... & while in TWS you don't have to adjust the radar scan parameters to keep the radar pointed at the bugged target as you or they manouver, these are dealt with automatically ( as the name says, the radar will track while continuing to scan ).

You (or the target) can move so the target goes from gimbal limit to gimbal limit & the radar will stay pointed at the target.

[Bandit.]

I personally find it useless. Not ed's fault though. It not because of Faulty modeling. It simply doesn't provide you with any real advantage. If it stayed in tws and only went to stt at the instant you launched then perhaps it would provide you with better SA. But in the end what matters is that it is represented accurately.

 

All this without mentioning the fact that if a target is jamming it doesn't work.

 

Personally I just use the normal scan mode and stay scanning up until the last second. That is when I lock the target and launch. This allows me to maintain bit of better SA prior to an engagement

[karambiatos]

... & while in TWS you don't have to adjust the radar scan parameters to keep the radar pointed at the bugged target as you or they manouver, these are dealt with automatically ( as the name says, the radar will track while continuing to scan ).

You (or the target) can move so the target goes from gimbal limit to gimbal limit & the radar will stay pointed at the target.

unless you get within 85% of the weapons range, then it becomes more work track without locking than STT

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

I've found that if I hover my slew over a target in TWS i don't get it locked up at all. I have to physically lock at target in TWS to achieve a lock it doesn't do it automatically.

[SilentGun]

I've found that if I hover my slew over a target in TWS i don't get it locked up at all. I have to physically lock at target in TWS to achieve a lock it doesn't do it automatically.

 

 

How close to the target were you?

[FlightControl]

You can shoot multiple targets at once in tws with aim-120s

[Frostie]

You can shoot multiple targets at once in tws with aim-120s

 

Su-27 doesn't carry AIM-120. ;)

[Tello]

I've found that if I hover my slew over a target in TWS i don't get it locked up at all. I have to physically lock at target in TWS to achieve a lock it doesn't do it automatically.

 

The radar will lock the target that are the closets automatically once your distance are lower than 80% of engagementzone iirc.

[Alfa]

Ever since the pfm upgrade I've found myself using TWS less frequently. In scan mode all visible targets are displayed on the HDD with their speed(not in numbers) and relative altitude.

 

Cannot speak for FC3 since I don't have it, but scan modes only provide the angular position(bearing/altitude) and range of a contact - in order to figure out its heading and speed it needs to be tracked and only the TWS mode can do that for multiple contacts. The only other way you can get that information is if you have an external source(GCI or AWACS) providing it.

 

Besides the fact that TWS goes dead in the presence of jamming..

 

When tracking a contact, the radar memorizes the angular position and range between sweeps and based on the difference it calculates heading and velocity - i.e. there is more processing going on and therefore TWS is more sensitive to disturbance(jamming) than scan modes.

 

...placing the box over a contact does not show the speed and altitude anymore.

Again I cannot speak for FC3, but it could be down to the range - maximum head-on tracking range is some 80% of detection range in HPRF scan mode(called "Encounter").

 

Which makes me wonder, what is the point of having TWS mode?

 

In addition to collecting heading and speed of contacts, the Russian TWS(called "SNP") automatically calculates which of the contacts will first enter your selected weapon's engagement parameters based on range/closure speed and only transitions to STT when that occurs - i.e. doesn't prematurely alert the target of an imminent missile launch.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Alfa

[Alfa]

The radar will lock the target that are the closets automatically once your distance are lower than 80% of engagementzone iirc.

 

It will pick the closest contact with the highest closure speed and can do this at around 80% of the detection range.

[derodo]

Sorry to revive this old topic, but I've flying the SU-27 recently (and enjoying it quite a lot!), and it also seems to me that TWS is kind of useless.

 

It provides the exact same information as the regular scan mode; you can see all targets aspect, altitude and speed hints on the MFD. The only difference is that the target designator box sticks automatically to the target once you move it close to it, and follows it without locking.

 

But...it doesn't provide you with any more info. I was expecting altitude and speed readings for the target the box is over on top of the hud (like in STT), and aspect on bottom left.

 

And it auto locks-on once the target it's tracking gets into launch parameters, which might be OK, but considering it's just a click away, it's not worth it most of the times; as you will reveal your intentions too soon...

 

Don't know...I was just curious to know if that's the intended behavior or not.

Edited February 2, 2016 by derodo

[Hadwell]

get radar data...a circle around the guy on your hud... without giving him a lock tone, basically locking without actually locking, just put the cursor on the radar over the guy and you can see him without pushing the lock button.

 

but yeah it's pretty useless...

 

mostly i just use it when there's a friendly and an enemy next to each other, so i don't lock the friendly, since it snaps between them.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Hadwell

[AussieGhost789]

Does it automatically manipulate the radar so that the bugged contact stays in view?

[Mamba]

Yes

[Ironhand]

Sorry to revive this old topic, but I've flying the SU-27 recently (and enjoying it quite a lot!), and it also seems to me that TWS is kind of useless.

 

It provides the exact same information as the regular scan mode; you can see all targets aspect, altitude and speed hints on the MFD. The only difference is that the target designator box sticks automatically to the target once you move it close to it, and follows it without locking.

 

But...it doesn't provide you with any more info. I was expecting altitude and speed readings for the target the box is over on top of the hud (like in STT), and aspect on bottom left.

 

And it auto locks-on once the target it's tracking gets into launch parameters, which might be OK, but considering it's just a click away, it's not worth it most of the times; as you will reveal your intentions too soon...

 

Don't know...I was just curious to know it that's the intended behavior or not.

The major difference between SCAN/Overview and TWS is that the radar automatically follows the bugged target wherever it goes within the radar's gimbal limits as you and he maneuver. So it reduces your workload in that respect.