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Posted

Hi guys,

 

Me and my friend were heading towards some tanks and one SAM and I made the SAM my SPI with my TGP so we could destroy it first. The thing is that when he recieved the tasking it was off to the right and it happend with every SPI I sent him.

 

Is it normal? So the SPI precision is not that much? Or am I not doing something?

 

 

Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
Hi guys,

 

Me and my friend were heading towards some tanks and one SAM and I made the SAM my SPI with my TGP so we could destroy it first. The thing is that when he recieved the tasking it was off to the right and it happend with every SPI I sent him.

 

Is it normal? So the SPI precision is not that much? Or am I not doing something?

 

 

Thanks!

 

Depends on how off it is.

 

Could be the difference in GPS/Intertial computed position, this system does not have absolute precision.

The position that you computed might not be the same position your wingman would have computed with the same target.

Not counting other possible errors if you're not exactly on target (e.g. SPI on ground instead of target, creating parallax error ), you would get a different picture depending of the angle and azimuth relatively to the target.

 

You can try the following: both put the TGP on the same object, from the same position (you and your wingman as close as possible).

Make sure you lase it to get correct distance.

Create a mark point.

Both note the full coordinates, then compare.

Edited by PiedDroit
Posted

Required viewing for 'Hog drivers.

 

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Posted
Me and my friend were heading towards some tanks and one SAM and I made the SAM my SPI with my TGP so we could destroy it first. The thing is that when he recieved the tasking it was off to the right and it happend with every SPI I sent him.

 

Just to be sure, was the TGP really your SPI generator, or did you just set it as SOI?

(With TGP as SPI generator, the HUD will display "TGP" on the lower left column of information; by default, it's "STPT").

 

How did you send the SPI? Did he hook it in his TAD or did you send it via yours?

 

I think sending a SPI between A-10Cs is fairly accurate, but I don't have a lot of experience there, so I'd be interested to find the answer as well.

Posted

SPI's are not spot on, at least in my experience and lasing doesn't help. However they should be close to the target.

 

Also sounds like you were in MP and that could be an explanation as well.

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Posted

i did make it with the tgp and sent it via DL

 

so it is normal, then?

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Posted (edited)
SPI's are not spot on, at least in my experience and lasing doesn't help. However they should be close to the target.

 

Also sounds like you were in MP and that could be an explanation as well.

 

Lasing should help to get the distance right, when not lasing the SPI elevation is taken from the ground elevation database - I don't know if this is actually implemented.

 

i did make it with the tgp and sent it via DL

 

so it is normal, then?

It depends by how much it's off... See my previous post, if your SPI seen by your wingman is only a meter off then it's probably normal.

If it's 10 meters, then it's not so normal.

Edited by PiedDroit
Posted

definitely not 1 meter, not sure if its 5 or 10.

 

so the tgp has coordinates, why doesnt it show correctly? :(

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Posted
definitely not 1 meter, not sure if its 5 or 10.

 

so the tgp has coordinates, why doesnt it show correctly? :(

Screenshots? One from your TGP, one from you wingman's? That would help.

 

Otherwise, see my first post: the coordinates you get from the TGP might not be exact.

 

For example if your TGP says x,y,z, the same x,y,z might point to a different location when seen from another aircraft.

Posted
See my previous post.

The coordinates you get from the TGP might not be exact.

 

For example if your TGP says x,y,z, the same x,y,z might point to a different point when seen from another aircraft.

 

i dont understand, sorry :joystick:

 

 

why would it?

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Posted
i dont understand, sorry :joystick:

 

why would it?

 

The GPS and the TGP aren't magical things that are super accurate, they generate errors (due to computation, wear and tear, parallax, calibration, whatever).

 

And the errors you get on your GPS+TGP are not the same errors you'd get on your wingman's GPS+TGP, hence the possible difference on the position with the same set of coordinates.

 

I don't know how to explain it better

Posted
The GPS and the TGP aren't magical things that are super accurate, they generate errors (due to computation, wear and tear, parallax, calibration, whatever).

 

And the errors you get on your GPS+TGP are not the same errors you'd get on your wingman's GPS+TGP, hence the possible difference on the position with the same set of coordinates.

 

I don't know how to explain it better

 

Is this modeled though?

Posted

The error described in the picture can be countered by lasing while creating the markpoint.

 

And 10 meters of error isn't much at all.

Another reason could be that the number of digits that the TGP and TAD are able to define, correct me if I'm wrong but i think a 10-digit grid would be a Target Location Error Category II (7 -15 m??).

Posted
Is this modeled though?

 

At least parallax is (LJQCN101's picture explains it well) and this alone can cause errors of several meters with a vehicle on flat terrain.

Posted

i think i read somewhere in the manual about setting the dts elevation, but i cant find it now...

 

any thoughts?

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Posted

I think the points sent over the datalink (which appears as "new tasking" and a red triangle) to your wingman has fewer numbers in the coordinates compared to what you are seeing in your mark points coordinates.

 

Try this:

-Put your SPI on a very specific point, say an enemy truck.

-Send the position to your wingman using the datalink and note where your wingman got the point.

-Then broadcast your SPI, have your wingman hook to it and slave his sensors to it and look at any differences in precision.

 

In my experience, the datalink is useful for when sending multiple points to multiple aircraft. The points are not precise enough to drop a JDAM on it, but the recieving pilots gets their eyes/sensor on the target area.

However, when you really need someone to find an exact specific target in the target area, broadcasting your SPI or using LSS is the only way.

Posted

?

 

It's pretty easy, target tasking messages in DCS don't transfer elevation data (a bug) so the received point will be at MSL. Either copy the received point to a waypoint (TAD hook and hit OSB 16), which will have the correct elevation, or use the SPI broadcast function of SADL.

 

 

Posted

Slave TDC to SOI and use it as SPI. It is the most immune to gyro changes. Also get a view outside the cockpit with your eyeballs to know where the target is in reference to its surrounding structures be that a mountain, a patch of land, a building, or power line, etc..

 

A-10 pilots rely on their sights first before relying on SOIs. Of course nothing could be further from the truth.

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Posted
?

 

It's pretty easy, target tasking messages in DCS don't transfer elevation data (a bug) so the received point will be at MSL. Either copy the received point to a waypoint (TAD hook and hit OSB 16), which will have the correct elevation, or use the SPI broadcast function of SADL.

 

Ill try that. So by making the spi a mark point the recieving aircraft will see it accurately?

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Posted

wait! ive been thinking!

 

based on these answers i can say that if i set a spi very high then it will be off by a lot when sending it right? cause if all of this is true then the higher the spi is in regards to the predefined elevation the bigger the error will be when you send the spi.

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Posted

also, dont know why people continue to say markpoints when talking about spi... markpoints are a different thing.

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