DCS: F-5E!

[King_Hrothgar]

n+1 for DCS is generally measured in years, so lets hope not! I expect it will come no earlier than 2 weeks after the Gazelle even if it is ready the very same day. Reason being I don't think ED wants the headache of trying to patch two new modules at once constantly, that's just asking for trouble. So I bet they wait a couple weeks for the major issues to get ironed out before releasing the second.

[Vedexent]

Annnd ... there will be delays.

 

Not saying anything against Belsimtek. Just that there are always delays. For all dev teams.

[Kev2go]

In my opinion an all weather fighter would be one with an ILS system, gyroscopic ADI, fire control radar, and some form of radio navigation. But hey. Different strokes for different folks.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/all-weather+air+defense+fighter

 

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/all-weather+fighter

 

 

the standard definitions of all weather fighter. Nowhere does it specifically say you need that level of technolgy that you listed for any type of aircraft to actually be an "all weather fighter"

 

 

Again its its relative to the time period.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_fighter

 

P61 and Bf110 were considered all weather fighters in ww2.

 

F86D/K Sabre dog and Mig17pf/pfm were considered all weather fighter for its day of the early - mid 50s, before being surpassed by the F101, F102, F104., and then those being surpassed in all weather capabilties. by the F4 phantom ETC. ETC.

 

 

Id say for a early 70s tech F5E would still be considered a All weather fighter, but not the most capable since its not to mean to be state of the art , but an economical export fighter. But to be fair it still has a more sophisticated radar, and rwr than the Soviet "all weather" Mig21bis of the same time period. BST is developing the F5E primarily as a western opponent to the Mig21 because it was deemed to have similar enough capabilities. After all us agressor squadrons did use F5E to simulate eastern block fighters the soviet Mig21 in particular.

 

obviously in 1970s 1st generation aicraft like F86K or mig17pf would seem obsolete as all weather fighters compared to the F4 phantom or even the more economical oriented F5E tiger 2.

 

 

its never fair to compare to technology from a later generation.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Kev2go

[Sryan]

Like your sources stated. An All-weather fighter is equiped with tools and weapons that allow for navigating, intercepting and fighting in adverse weather and low light level conditions.

 

The german WW2 nightfighters where equiped with systems like the FUbL 1 and the FuG 125 for landing and navigating in adverse conditions. They where equiped with devices like the FuG101 radio altimeter to detect their height above terrain in adverse weather. They where also equiped with devices like the PeilG6, FuBL2, the FuG125 and FuG120(k) for radio navigation either towards targets or back to base.

 

So how can anyone claim that a fighter that's 30 years newer than the WW2 nightfighters is an all-weather fighter when it misses some capabilities that the warbirds had? Not to mention that the AIM-9 is a poor choice for adverse weather when the radar guided AIM-7 existed for over 10 years when the F5 was introduced. Just because a fighter has the capability to acquire a target in other ways than visual does not mean it's an all weather fighter.

[probad]

Id say for a early 70s tech F5E would still be considered a All weather fighter

 

heh

 

 

and you will find nowhere is the f-5e described as designed to prosecute an all-weather mission, certainly not by northrop grumman.

 

so you're more than welcome to call the f-5e an all weather aircraft but the world does not bow to the logic of your personal reality. :)

I find it hard to believe that by the 70s, especially an all weather fighter from the 3rd generation ( even if its a plane aimed for export) would actually lack any sort of autopilot function

Edited April 22, 2016 by probad

[Esac_mirmidon]

It amazes me the things that causes debate and controverse here in this forums.

 

Only in DCS.

 

Amazing.

[TomCatMucDe]

It amazes me the things that causes debate and controverse here in this forums.

 

Only in DCS.

 

Amazing.

 

those debates happen only about non released modules. Once released and fully working forums are deserted :D

[Esac_mirmidon]

Nice point. XDD.

[lmp]

But to be fair it still has a more sophisticated radar, and rwr than the Soviet "all weather" Mig21bis of the same time period.

 

1) The MiG-21bis was considered an all weather interceptor by the USSR, USA and NATO could very well have classified it differently.

 

2) The difference that made the MiG-21F-13 a good weather interceptor and MiG-21PF and beyond all weather interceptors is the ability to use radar guided air to air missiles. With IR guided missiles you had no guarantee you were firing at the target you intercepted and identified with your fire control radar.

 

3) In the end these are all just labels useful for people who like to label things. What's really important is what each airplane has and hasn't, what it can and can't do...

[Kev2go]

heh

 

 

and you will find nowhere is the f-5e described as designed to prosecute an all-weather mission, certainly not by northrop grumman.

 

so you're more than welcome to call the f-5e an all weather aircraft but the world does not bow to the logic of your personal reality. :)

 

 

not my logic, look up the definitions i posted for" all weather" and comparison to other aircraft.

 

 

1) The MiG-21bis was considered an all weather interceptor by the USSR, USA and NATO could very well have classified it differently.

 

2) The difference that made the MiG-21F-13 a good weather interceptor and MiG-21PF and beyond all weather interceptors is the ability to use radar guided air to air missiles. With IR guided missiles you had no guarantee you were firing at the target you intercepted and identified with your fire control radar.

 

3) In the end these are all just labels useful for people who like to label things. What's really important is what each airplane has and hasn't, what it can and can't do...

 

 

 

exactly just labels, in all honestly there are no more true "day fighters" anymore. since no one makes military combat aircraft that dont have some sort of Radar, and more sophisticated navigation systems.

 

 

and at the same time it was all relative to time period and technology available.

 

 

Not to mention that the AIM-9 is a poor choice for adverse weather when the radar guided AIM-7 existed for over 10 years when the F5 was introduced. Just because a fighter has the capability to acquire a target in other ways than visual does not mean it's an all weather fighter.

 

The Aim 7D/E were very unreliable. look at its kill ration during good weather.

 

the aim7 series was garbage until the Aim7F, even then it wasnt a truely good until 80s era Aim7M

 

the soviet R3R used on the mig21 iis even worse off because its not a BVR missile, with range being comparable with that of a heatseaker.

 

 

the 1972 aim9J was a significant improvement over earlier sidewinders, the first USAF variant to be actually capable of "dogfighting".

 

 

its worth mentioning that modifications existed for F5s to arm radar guided missiles, it was not limited to seekers in its service life..

 

as a export plane countries could choose what modifications they wanted added or upgraded to base model, for extra price of course.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Kev2go

[Vedexent]

It amazes me the things that causes debate and controverse here in this forums.

 

Only in DCS.

 

Amazing.

 

I think it's a general Internet thing

 

[Esac_mirmidon]

LOL ¡¡¡

[AG-51_Razor]

LOL!! So true. :doh:

[Kev2go]

I think it's a general Internet thing

 

 

hmm funny you should say that.

 

 

I think whats a bigger internet thing, are some people resort o insults, jokes, and in this case irrelevant content. instead contributing to a discussion at hand

Edited April 22, 2016 by Kev2go

[Vedexent]

LOL

 

look whos talking

 

Never said I wasn't guilty too! :D

[Kev2go]

Never said I wasn't guilty too! :D

 

 

 

 

heh

 

ok fair enough.

[Guitrz]

Does it really matter though?

 

All I know is that I'll be flying it anywhere anytime

[Stratos]

Got this book today as a gift from my wife. :)

 

Plenty of lessons to learn, tactics to apply and missions to design based on this book. Can't wait BST!!

 

[Pipe]

Friday launch perhaps :music_whistling:

[Guitrz]

Amen

[GaryIKILLYOU]

Links and other things

Notice in my post, the part at the start. In my opinion

:music_whistling:

Also your source helps bolster my opinion:

"A fighter aircraft equipped with radar and other special devices which enable it to intercept its target in the dark, or in daylight weather conditions that do not permit visual interception"

Would you call the things I listed special devices compared to the other WWII era aircraft you named? I'm sure the USAAF and Luftwaffe would have loved to have the tech behind even one of them and would certainly consider them special. :D

 

 

Meanwhile.. OT: Yes F-5E today pls.

[Tarres]

I hope that the issue with the VOR navigation in the NTTR will be solved to allow a proper IFR (VOR+TACAN) for the F-5E-3 and for the Huey.

For now the HUEY only has one NDB for IFR in the NTTR (and the great gospadin mod) and the VOR navigation is bugged. (Yes, it´s an alpha)

[Tirak]

Friday launch perhaps :music_whistling:

 

If this release follows the pattern of the others, there will be a newsletter announcement about 2 weeks ahead of release, announcing the release, 1 week ahead preorders will open. Mid May is the earliest you should expect the module, and that's only if the announcement happens this Friday.

[FZG_Immel]

as a member of the Swiss Air Force, I will purchase this module as soon as its get out.

 

no question asked.

 

dont make me wait more than that :)

[Paradox]

as a member of the Swiss Air Force, I will purchase this module as soon as its get out.

 

no question asked.

 

dont make me wait more than that :)

 

the man has spoken!