"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[BSS_Sniper]

+1

you guys never flew IL2 where you had to know which way you were flying and land marks.

 

That is also a lot different. Flying a jet that's 5-8 times faster in cruise and altitude than an IL2. Removing the F10 option is just going to make it suck overall. As it is now, the concentration is on coordination and attacking targets. Now, if you throw in people having to do a shit ton of preflight planning for each and every flight, the focus gets shifted and we lose what's making this server great. I don't get what it is with some of you. I think you need to go get your ratings, get a job flying then come back here. You won't want to do all this "realism". I'm all for it really, in real life. Like I said before, it's when you are in our virtual world and you're not just doing one or two flights, but quite a few, it becomes a hassle and over shadows everything else that makes it fun.

Edited July 11, 2016 by BSS_Sniper

[kobeshow]

That is also a lot different. Flying a jet that's 5-8 times faster in cruise and altitude than an IL2. Removing the F10 option is just going to make it suck overall. As it is now, the concentration is on coordination and attacking targets. Now, if you throw in people having to do a shit ton of preflight planning for each and every flight, the focus gets shifted and we lose what's making this server great. I don't get what it is with some of you. I think you need to go get your ratings, get a job flying then come back here. You won't want to do all this "realism". I'm all for it really, in real life. Like I said before, it's when you are in our virtual world and you're not just doing one or two flights, but quite a few, it becomes a hassle and over shadows everything else that makes it fun.

 

I don't think it ís about that "super hardcore" realism, all one really needs to do is learn how to read their HSI and select the correct waypoint/beacon, no one is advocating hour long pre-flight planning, at least I'm not, but reading the HSI and drawing a mental image of where you are on the map is really just basics in my opinion.

[SFJackBauer]

+1 on not having icon on F10 map, so the awesome aerodrome charts created by VFBW32 could be put to good use

+1 on reducing standoff capabilities for CAS / SEAD

+1 on increasing air defenses around airbases

+1 on having MiG-29A as point defense for RED

+1 on flying Red Side

[M0ltar]

I have a couple of things in regards to how the server sits now and take them as you will.

 

1) The lack of being able to use universel visibility mod is crippling for peolpe that play at high resolutions due to the fact of how DCS handles imposters and such. Is it possible to allow any type of exceptions for mods?

 

2) Is it possible to not have the SA8s move after hitting one that is close to it? I say this not as an A10C driver but looking out for the SU25 drivers. It is incredilby hard to engage these things in the SU25 and if they move it makes it that much more difficult.

 

Just a couple of simple things to mention.

[M0ltar]

Well lets disregard my first comment as 1) the mod is actually broken in 1.5.4.

 

On another note. A couple of things were noticed tonight during Blue Flag.

 

1) Lives are not working. Meaning people can spawn as much as they want.

2) Some people are able to spawn at enemy occupied Farps and Airfields.

3) When fuel bunkers and barracks are destroyed, people are still able to spawn at that respective airfield.

4) Players are able to get into vehicles and drive them. We are currently having an issue with a player driving a BMP and killing entire airfields and farps. Not sure if this is a new feature or something that needs to be fixed.

[Frostie]

I don't think it ís about that "super hardcore" realism, all one really needs to do is learn how to read their HSI and select the correct waypoint/beacon, no one is advocating hour long pre-flight planning, at least I'm not, but reading the HSI and drawing a mental image of where you are on the map is really just basics in my opinion.

 

+1

The F10 icon has become all too common in servers, it never existed previously and things worked out just fine. F10 icon not only makes navigation and A2G easier it also makes SA readouts to buddies easier, lets have less of this click ruler tactics on the fly and more reliance on perception.

There is always the kneeboard which is another hand holder in case of tumbleweedness.

[QuiGon]

You look at the map, associate the terrain around you and put two and two together. It's not that difficult. Having said that, I'd rather just keep the F10 option. I really don't want what I'm doing for fun to start feeling like work. To be honest, people that are talking about realism, you won't be getting any more realism by taking your icon off the map. I highly doubt that people are going to go into their FMS and set up a route for each and every flight. IRL yeah, you are going out once a day or less. In here, people are up and down way too often to be sitting on the ground setting up flight management systems several times a day. You'll spend more time planning than flying, IF you are going for realism in that sense.

 

That is also a lot different. Flying a jet that's 5-8 times faster in cruise and altitude than an IL2. Removing the F10 option is just going to make it suck overall. As it is now, the concentration is on coordination and attacking targets. Now, if you throw in people having to do a shit ton of preflight planning for each and every flight, the focus gets shifted and we lose what's making this server great. I don't get what it is with some of you. I think you need to go get your ratings, get a job flying then come back here. You won't want to do all this "realism". I'm all for it really, in real life. Like I said before, it's when you are in our virtual world and you're not just doing one or two flights, but quite a few, it becomes a hassle and over shadows everything else that makes it fun.

 

It's good for for you, that you can do that stuff IRL, but most of us can't. So we're happy if we can do all that in the sim. Now telling us to get a flying job IRL is pretty pretentious. You did the same in the other thread about IFR weather conditions.

 

You're also overacting on the effort that it will take to fly without the F-10 symbol. It's really not necessary to create entire flight plans. Most aircraft don't have this capability anyways.

But saying that taking away the F-10 symbol won't add much realism is just wrong. Again, there is no such thing IRL (except modern GPS nav systems, but this is BlueFlag 70/80s). Having the F-10 symbol on the map renders all our onboard nav systems almost totally useless. Doing your nav work and doing it right is one of the most important aspects of (military) flying, which is totally missing in BlueFlag so far!

 

Having said that I have to admit, that it would be a problem for the FC3 aircraft, which lack working nav systems. I haven't thought about that, since I'm not flying these. It's really about time to get rid of them.

[ralfidude]

Currently it takes 2 aim 9s to kill a mig-29. The damage model they have for that thing is crude, always has been, always will be. Having a bunch of these maggots flying around as front runner defense force will seriously hamper things down. AFAIK the F4s go down as they should. They even fire on their own Blue side, happened to me twice already.

[Monkey21]

Currently it takes 2 aim 9s to kill a mig-29. The damage model they have for that thing is crude, always has been, always will be. Having a bunch of these maggots flying around as front runner defense force will seriously hamper things down. AFAIK the F4s go down as they should. They even fire on their own Blue side, happened to me twice already.

 

While true, we exclusively have the Mirage now, so it's difficult to complain.

[Frostie]

[/b]Having said that I have to admit, that it would be a problem for the FC3 aircraft, which lack working nav systems. I haven't thought about that, since I'm not flying these. It's really about time to get rid of them.

Of course they have working Nav systems. Please stop with the 'FC aircraft don't fit because you can't flick every switch' pot stir.

[Shively]

Currently it takes 2 aim 9s to kill a mig-29. The damage model they have for that thing is crude, always has been, always will be. Having a bunch of these maggots flying around as front runner defense force will seriously hamper things down. AFAIK the F4s go down as they should. They even fire on their own Blue side, happened to me twice already.

 

I don't know if you fly against the F-4 AI very often or not, but it's kind of an accomplishment for me to get the kill on them the first time with the missiles on my Fishbed, of basically all varieties (aside the R-3R, which always feels ahistorically awesome). If I'm toting R-60m I'm accustomed to double-tapping anyway, but it almost always requires two of them, otherwise most hits just disable one engine and the F-4 keeps fighting like nothing happened. That's fine for the R-60 and its tiny warhead, but when the R-13s start failing on you, you begin to get a bit annoyed.

 

I seriously wouldn't be surprised if they can tank R-73s. Should probably get around to testing that, actually.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Shively
late-night spelling errors, maybe some mild intoxication

[xcom]

Is there any chance that the Russian planes (MiG-21bis, KA-50, and Mi-8MTV2) get proper Russian skins, now that it's a proper Russia v Nato scenario?

 

We will check it.

 

Well lets disregard my first comment as 1) the mod is actually broken in 1.5.4.

 

On another note. A couple of things were noticed tonight during Blue Flag.

 

1) Lives are not working. Meaning people can spawn as much as they want.

2) Some people are able to spawn at enemy occupied Farps and Airfields.

3) When fuel bunkers and barracks are destroyed, people are still able to spawn at that respective airfield.

4) Players are able to get into vehicles and drive them. We are currently having an issue with a player driving a BMP and killing entire airfields and farps. Not sure if this is a new feature or something that needs to be fixed.

 

 

We will check how the driving is working.

But, for the other issues, it's a problem we had with one of the scripts that didn't run, it should be fixed, if not then by tonight.

[QuiGon]

Hey xcom, what's your thought about the F-10 own aircraft position?

 

 

Of course they have working Nav systems. Please stop with the 'FC aircraft don't fit because you can't flick every switch' pot stir.

Alright, that's nice to know. Like I said, I'm not flying them and I thought they could just follow predefined waypoints. So, when that's not a problem, then I see no reason why we should keep the F-10 own aircraft position. :thumbup:

[Pikey]

Pointless debate. DCS cannot apply different view methods to groups/CA/Forward observer slots, thus everyone takes the lowest and we lose AWACS and any form of team play and immersion which is a primary goal of Blue Flag.

 

If that was implemented however, Navigation still has issues, for example Farps without any beacons to navigate to for helicopters.

 

I love navigation and spent 15 minutes programming a few waypoints for a CAP flight in the Mirage, but there is a valid point that somewhere the line has to be drawn and the right canvas for this is not Blue Flag currently.

[QuiGon]

Pointless debate. DCS cannot apply different view methods to groups/CA/Forward observer slots, thus everyone takes the lowest and we lose AWACS and any form of team play and immersion which is a primary goal of Blue Flag.

I thought that's already the case? As a normal pilot I can't see allies and detected enemies like in the GCI slot :huh:

 

If that was implemented however, Navigation still has issues, for example Farps without any beacons to navigate to for helicopters.

Huh? You can navigate to a FARP (their positions are known/in the docs), like you can to a normal air base. Thats what map and compass are for.

 

I love navigation and spent 15 minutes programming a few waypoints for a CAP flight in the Mirage, but there is a valid point that somewhere the line has to be drawn and the right canvas for this is not Blue Flag currently.

Why not? I thought BlueFlag is a bit more sophisticated and demanding than the other public servers.

[Pikey]

With Huey and Mi8 you can navigate by dead reckoning from somewhere you know to somewhere you plotted, the difference between someone who knows their way around the map and a newcomer would be massive and you know how many time people ask question in BF chat. To me thats VFR and as challenging as finding the toilet in my own house. All it will do is seperate the people that know from the entry level Blue Flag is looking to bring together.

I think you will become entrenched on that due to cognitive resonance, it takes a lot to see DCS through the beginners eyes again.

[ViFF]

+1

you guys never flew IL2 where you had to know which way you were flying and land marks.

 

Hey!

 

Xcom and I and about 90% of the IAF come from IL2 Sturmovik!

 

We loved the "full switch" realism servers with no self icon on map, and pretty much flew only in those. To this day we still have a few IAF members (including myself) who enjoy flying the "SEOW" dynamic campaign on Sundays. We just finished recently a "Battle of the Coral Sea" campaign and the next one coming up in September will be the "Battle of Midway". Full realism offcourse.

 

I have been flying with Xcom since 1999, way back since Warbirds 2.73, then Aces High, then we played a bit WWIIOL, then settled for a good 7 years in IL2 up until 2013 when we started flying DCS.

 

You should see what he can do in IL2 with a Spitfire Mk.IX.... He has a special move we call in Hebrew "The Naknekan".

 

I am afraid to translate to English as it will probably violate the profanity rules of ED's forum ;)

 

He will never teach us how to do it... One can only hope he will not discover how to do it with ED's flight model.

 

S!

[Pikey]

My mistake on the Tact commander/forward controller/CA slot thing, seems to be a non issue.

 

But that aside, there very little to gain for Blue flag existing players versus what newcomers would lose. Essentially you can elect to not use the F10 map and achieve the same outcome, so it only punishes those that didn't come to play BF for a navex whilst only stopping those that wanted that element, from cheating to themselves.

[firmek]

With Huey and Mi8 you can navigate by dead reckoning from somewhere you know to somewhere you plotted, the difference between someone who knows their way around the map and a newcomer would be massive and you know how many time people ask question in BF chat. To me thats VFR and as challenging as finding the toilet in my own house. All it will do is seperate the people that know from the entry level Blue Flag is looking to bring together.

I think you will become entrenched on that due to cognitive resonance, it takes a lot to see DCS through the beginners eyes again.

Still having fresh memory on what kind of challanges as a newcommer I had to face the difficult part was to understand the geography of the region (for instance where to heck is Soganlug AB), what can I do, what are the things going on currently, where is the best place to spawn to get to action, what kind of action I can help with, what is the tasking and targets.

Once you figure it out where to start, what to do and where to go the navigation is not an issue - it's actually what makes it fun - especially with the transport chopper.

I don't know about Huey but in Mi-8 apart of dead reckoning you can also use ARC stations.

And last but not the least in reality the Caucasus map in DCS especially when divided by half between teams is so small that it's difficult to get lost after gaining some experience on the geography of the region.

 

Instead of seing own aircraft on F-10 map it would help to see friendly FARPS locations - (or maybe also enemy after successfull recon mission). The airports are visible as also the FARP locations are listed in SOP document - so there is no need to hide them on the map.

Edited July 12, 2016 by firmek

[Pikey]

I think I'm waiting more to see what the implementation of ther F10 user marks will be like, thinking of another infantry sim game here where they could be shared. F10 map..."now with datalink".... ?

[QuiGon]

My mistake on the Tact commander/forward controller/CA slot thing, seems to be a non issue.

 

But that aside, there very little to gain for Blue flag existing players versus what newcomers would lose. Essentially you can elect to not use the F10 map and achieve the same outcome, so it only punishes those that didn't come to play BF for a navex whilst only stopping those that wanted that element, from cheating to themselves.

 

That's the thing: You can't. If I want to do proper navigation I would need to use the map, especially in aircraft like the Huey or MiG-21 who don't have such sophisticated nav systems like the A-10C. That's why pilots have maps in their cockpit, but the kneeboard map in DCS is so crappy that it is pretty much useless, so i have to use the F-10 map, which I can't because I would get spoiled by the own aircraft symbol. So it is pretty frustrating for me, because I would love to make good use of proper navigation and the respective nav systems. :(

 

I think I'm waiting more to see what the implementation of ther F10 user marks will be like, thinking of another infantry sim game here where they could be shared. F10 map..."now with datalink".... ?

I really enjoy that functionality in said game for multiplayer mission planning and briefings before mission start, but not so much mid-mission and that's why I'm not so happy about it coming to DCS. Also because it's different in air warfare than on the ground :)

Edited July 12, 2016 by QuiGon

[mia389]

Of course they have working Nav systems. Please stop with the 'FC aircraft don't fit because you can't flick every switch' pot stir.

 

You can fly to tacans and ndbs if fc3 planes? I never knew. I would like to use the hsi in the F15. Only thing I figured out was a crude ils system.

[kobeshow]

I don't think you can use any fancy stuff in the FC3 planes, but you can always select an airfield as a known location and then look on the HSI to determine your position, and to find a FARP you just need to know the vector from your selected airfield.

[mia389]

I don't think you can use any fancy stuff in the FC3 planes, but you can always select an airfield as a known location and then look on the HSI to determine your position, and to find a FARP you just need to know the vector from your selected airfield.

 

oh I see, Use the HSI as a RMI and use the airfield as a tacan :thumbup:

[Pikey]

There's probably no compromise that makes sense to everyone, but for the sake of one for the wishlist quickly, this sim always needed a flight planning screen that can be accessed in-sim that has rulers and tools and a map to work a route on before scribbling it into a flight plan. But not just that, of course to update the planes nav information, if its FC3 and to be able to do that for A-10C and other programmable aircraft should the mission designer want it. It seems a shame we get limited to using the missions flight plan and cannot easily change it :(

 

That's the thing: You can't. If I want to do proper navigation I would need to use the map, especially in aircraft like the Huey or MiG-21 who don't have such sophisticated nav systems like the A-10C. That's why pilots have maps in their cockpit, but the kneeboard map in DCS is so crappy that it is pretty much useless, so i have to use the F-10 map, which I can't because I would get spoiled by the own aircraft symbol. So it is pretty frustrating for me, because I would love to make good use of proper navigation and the respective nav systems. :(

 

 

I really enjoy that functionality in said game for multiplayer mission planning and briefings before mission start, but not so much mid-mission and that's why I'm not so happy about it coming to DCS. Also because it's different in air warfare than on the ground :)