DCS World 1.5 and 2.0 Discussion

[Nooch]

I do not know about you, but when I work I like to get paid

 

Sure but when we realize that these textures should be part of a free update for the base DCS World, it should be ED paying Starway and not us paying him.

 

I mean, it's not that cool when it becomes something like this: "Gentlemen, you have the choice! You can either pay and get the updated 2016 textures or not pay and keep the same outdated stuff from years ago. Great deal isn't it?"

[NineLine]

Sure but when we consider that these textures should be part of a free update for the base DCS World, it should be ED paying Starway and not us paying him.

 

I mean, it's not that cool when it becomes something like this: "Gentlemen, you have the choice! You can either pay and get the updated 2016 textures or not pay and keep the same outdated stuff from years ago. Great deal isn't it?"

 

Right, I am going to Ford after work today and demand that I get a new 2017 model for free as I deserve it.

 

ED doesnt have the time right now to make new textures for the old map, they are moving forward with newer maps, etc. So they are working on a system where someone with high skills can offer an upgrade to a dated map. A map you already get for free anyways. Its really not that tough to grasp. If you dont think paying for these textures is fair, then yes, you have a choice. Its really not open for debate.

[hector_evc]

Right, I am going to Ford after work today and demand that I get a new 2017 model for free as I deserve it.

 

ED doesnt have the time right now to make new textures for the old map, they are moving forward with newer maps, etc. So they are working on a system where someone with high skills can offer an upgrade to a dated map. A map you already get for free anyways. Its really not that tough to grasp. If you dont think paying for these textures is fair, then yes, you have a choice. Its really not open for debate.

 

SiThSpAwN

Sadly I agree with you, and this is the price to get big improvements that will benefit us all.

[Johnny Dioxin]

..and if it's only say $10 to $15, it ain't much :)

[NineLine]

I cant imagine it will be too much. But I am sure we will see some news on that soonish.

 

Honestly, for me, as soon as these other maps start dropping.. SoH, Normandy and whatever comes next... my time in Georgia will be limited I think.

[Raven68]

..and if it's only say $10 to $15, it ain't much :)

 

I cant imagine it will be too much. But I am sure we will see some news on that soonish.

 

So true! Nothing has been said about pricing yet, if there will be any at all. We need to wait and see what ED announces and gauge the pricing and each individual will determine if it's worth the set price.

[spaceraver]

I will buy the updated graphics package just to support Starway. With all the hours he has put into it I don't see the reason to fuss about a ~$10 texture update. It's cheap for the work he has done.

Heck, I still enjoy flying in Caucasus and if they decide to give it an overhaul down the road to support collidable trees and such for free while keeping the texture update paid I would still love it. *hint hint* :D

[Vitormouraa]

I cant imagine it will be too much. But I am sure we will see some news on that soonish.

 

Honestly, for me, as soon as these other maps start dropping.. SoH, Normandy and whatever comes next... my time in Georgia will be limited I think.

 

I guess everybody thinks like you. Can't wait to get out of the Black Sea. Because we have been flying on it for long time. :)

[Strelok]

Well what i think, about the Starways textures... It may be Ok to reward someone's hard work. However there are many guys who are making awesome texture packs on their own for free. So whats the deal? We dont have to buy anything that we dont want. I'm not personally interested in buying "official" HD texture packs when those free ones are around. What may change my opinion will be case that ED would make let's say trees colidable or new 3d models of infrastructures/buildings/vehicles. Colidable trees are really needed feature for default map. Especially when DCS evolution is going up. Then charging lower price for this kind of enhancement lets say for price of standalone FC3 module is reasonable. However DCS is evolving and it looks that with upcoming features will be improvement of default map imminent... So... :huh:

 

But I dont care until there will be some official info about pricing... :smartass:

[Johnny Dioxin]

Well, getting fed up with flying around the Caucasus map is one thing, but let's not forget that at least 2 upcoming module campaigns are based in it.

 

I don't know if I'm allowed to say which ones, so I won't - but trust me, they are - and you will want it looking at it's best for that, I'm sure!

[bart]

Well, getting fed up with flying around the Caucasus map is one thing, but let's not forget that at least 2 upcoming module campaigns are based in it.

 

I don't know if I'm allowed to say which ones, so I won't - but trust me, they are - and you will want it looking at it's best for that, I'm sure!

 

Not forgetting all the training missions that come with most modules will continue to be on this map, unless they start bundling modules with maps on a regular basis.

 

Two campaign's eh Brix...... are you bribeable with say.....a case of err.... wobbly? :D

[Johnny Dioxin]

Maybe... :beer:

[cichlidfan]

Regarding pricing.

 

Of course it will not be free. If it were free, Wags would not have referred to it as DLC. He would have just called it a future upgrade.

[REDEYE_CVW-66]

I suspect people will fly around Georgia for a LONG time, even with new maps popping up. It is still the one theatre that everyone has, and with the right textures, it is still very, very usable. I thought that when the NTTR came out that I would only hang there. How wrong I was. Still a great map, but most stuff happen around Georgia still. Textures are a matter of preferance and taste, but Starways looks to be the most accurate of the real-life Georgia (As seen in satelite images) and therefore a must for me. And paying the price of a pint or two to keep my favourite sim looking sharp works for me.

[Zimmerdylan]

Regarding pricing.

 

Of course it will not be free. If it were free, Wags would not have referred to it as DLC. He would have just called it a future upgrade.

 

I don't know if ED is feeling the pinch, but from my experiences in servers, a lot of people have opted out of the NTTR map because they feel it is too expensive and have no plans to purchase it.

Although I own the map, I don't really fly it because there are too few servers, and they're all empty most of the time.

I do not think I would be apt to pay for any upgrades to existing maps at this point. Although NTTR is still in alpha, there are so many issues that I personally have with it right now that I'm not really into doing anything with it at this point.

 

Along these lines, I have a question about the recent updates and "upgrades" to 1.5. As of maybe two updates ago, my DCS 1.5 is performing very poorly. Laggy, low FPS, cockpit textures in all planes seem to be glittery (for lack of a better term) and its performing worse than ever. I have had issues with DCS giving me the old "DCS has stopped responding" whenever I closed the game down for a long time now, and it opens in non full screen half the time even though it is set to full screen. And when I use the keys to set it to full screen, the mouse is out of calibration as though I am still in non full screen. I opened tickets with DCS on both of these matters and they eventually told me that it was unusual and that they had no idea. But when I chat about it in TS on the servers, it is a common issue according to many people I fly with.

Now, with these recent updates being performance killers, I'm flying even less.

So if I could get a little 411 on whether the new improvements are actually going to force me to upgrade my system to keep playing or if this is just growing pains (so to speak).

Edited April 12, 2016 by Zimmerdylan

[NineLine]

Far as I know, NTTR sales are just fine. Servers are most likely waiting for a full release of the map before committing fully.

 

As for updates forcing you to update your computer... dont they in every piece of software out there? Eventually you need to upgrade, its a fact of life. My computer is pretty modest by many peoples standards... I have no issues running the sim currently, be it 1.5 or 2.0. I would have rather of stuck with my 386 way back when... I paid a lot for that thing.

[nomdeplume]

I think it's definitely worthwhile for ED to try to find ways to monetize improvements to the base game. There's a lot of things that could and should be improved or added, but only make sense if they're available as part of the base install. e.g. new AI units, more liveries, etc. Personally I really want more "low threat" ground units, things like technicals with a variety of light weapons. Fighting the same Zu-23-on-a-Ural over and over gets dull for COIN type missions. Maybe the new particle system could do justice to 'flak' as well. More civilian aircraft would be nice to have, too, to be able to populate the skies.

 

But none of those things would really make sense as standalone DLC, since then mission makers couldn't rely on people having them. There's a lot of value in things like that being part of the base game. On the other hand, if you can do things that directly make money (new maps, aircraft, campaigns, etc.) then it's hard to justify doing things that don't have such a direct payoff.

 

On the other hand, another thing to consider is word-of-mouth, e.g. lots of people find out about DCS via videos on YouTube on the like, so it's in ED's interests for the game to look as good as possible for everybody.

 

One strategy which would be particularly interesting with a texture upgrade DLC would be to make it available at whatever price point they feel is right, but with a clear notification that it will also be a free update for everyone at some specific date in the future, e.g. 2 or 3 months away.

 

That lets people who want to support the creator - or who are just impatient :D - vote with their wallet, while still letting everyone benefit from the update in the long run.

 

They could even reduce the price on a weekly basis or similar, to reflect the amount of time until it becomes free. That way people can decide what price point they think is reasonable; some people might be willing to pay $5 to get updated textures a month early, but not $10 to get it two months early, for example.

 

This model could possibly even work for AI units, as people who decide to buy it to get access early could design missions using them, and then everyone can play those missions later. There are already community-made addon units, but they're rarely used by mission designers that want to distribute their missions because most people don't want to mess around with mods just to play a user mission.

[bart]

Another possibility after the initial sale of the texture mod would be to bundle it with an aircraft module, say the Gazelle or A10C. Aircraft that spend a lot of time watching the ground looking for targets. This would I'm sure be of interest to at lot of folks.

[Flogger23m]

We have a free map which is being upgraded to edge T4, giving us a choice to upgrade textures or not is great in my opinion.

 

You make it seem as though we should be grateful the map is remaining free. Of course it would have to be upgraded for the new engine. I don't see this as a freebie or ED doing us a favor. If they decided to charge for the currently free map suddenly a lot of people who may have spent hundreds of dollars would be locked out of updates unless they paid for something else. This is especially problematic if they bought one of the many beta modules and were unable to get the complete versions without paying more for other content. It would also go against the whole concept of having the base game free in which you buy aircraft/modules to use in it.

 

Now, new textures only is a bit different. I still don't see it as a worthy for a paid addon though. Unless the terrian is getting an entire face lift to be up to par with NTTR/future maps it isn't worth it. Certainly not for $30-40+.

 

I would also question online compatibility. Would be with the higher res textures be able to play in the same server as those without it?

 

IMO it is getting to a point where it would be better if ED just charged for the base game. No more future modules and no more massive upgrades for the free version, just bug fixes to bring current modules to retail status. Then release a paid version which will support future upgrades and modules but won't be charging for piecemeal items like textures, weather or AI units. Essentially go back to what DCS World used to be like, although use the funds from the base game towards development of the core experience. It seems as if ED is unable to sustain itself from aircraft and campaign modules on its own, and I'd rather just pay a one time fee and get all upgrades at once. That would probably make for a smoother MP experience as well.

[Johnny Dioxin]

I think it's definitely worthwhile for ED to try to find ways to monetize improvements to the base game. There's a lot of things that could and should be improved or added, but only make sense if they're available as part of the base install. e.g. new AI units, more liveries, etc. Personally I really want more "low threat" ground units, things like technicals with a variety of light weapons. Fighting the same Zu-23-on-a-Ural over and over gets dull for COIN type missions. Maybe the new particle system could do justice to 'flak' as well. More civilian aircraft would be nice to have, too, to be able to populate the skies.

 

Absolutely agree with you on this - especially with some of the low-tech AG/COIN type aircraft we have coming out now, such as the 4 trainers and also a better environment for the Huey and Mi-8 without being at the kind of risk that real ops would very rarely require you to operate under. (in regards to SAM/advanced AA cover).

 

Adding such units and hardware could be included in the price of a map or other DLC. (oh, sorry bart - you mentioned something similar)

Edited April 12, 2016 by Brixmis

[BIGNEWY]

You make it seem as though we should be grateful the map is remaining free. Of course it would have to be upgraded for the new engine. I don't see this as a freebie or ED doing us a favor. If they decided to charge for the currently free map suddenly a lot of people who may have spent hundreds of dollars would be locked out of updates unless they paid for something else. This is especially problematic if they bought one of the many beta modules and were unable to get the complete versions without paying more for other content. It would also go against the whole concept of having the base game free in which you buy aircraft/modules to use in it.

 

Now, new textures only is a bit different. I still don't see it as a worthy for a paid addon though. Unless the terrian is getting an entire face lift to be up to par with NTTR/future maps it isn't worth it. Certainly not for $30-40+.

 

I would also question online compatibility. Would be with the higher res textures be able to play in the same server as those without it?

 

IMO it is getting to a point where it would be better if ED just charged for the base game. No more future modules and no more massive upgrades for the free version, just bug fixes to bring current modules to retail status. Then release a paid version which will support future upgrades and modules but won't be charging for piecemeal items like textures, weather or AI units. Essentially go back to what DCS World used to be like, although use the funds from the base game towards development of the core experience. It seems as if ED is unable to sustain itself from aircraft and campaign modules on its own, and I'd rather just pay a one time fee and get all upgrades at once. That would probably make for a smoother MP experience as well.

 

 

I am not trying to make it seem as though you should be grateful, I am actually being factual.

 

Like I said "We have a free map which is being upgraded to edge T4"

 

I don't see a problem with playing online, and I do not think having a different texture would effect compatibility either.

 

And I disagree, having a free base game draws new players in, allows them to dip their toe's into our sim which can only be a good thing

[Johnny Dioxin]

I think the more pertinent question about the difference between those with the newer textures and those without, when playing online, is whether it will give one or other a tactical advantage.

[BIGNEWY]

I think the more pertinent question about the difference between those with the newer textures and those without, when playing online, is whether it will give one or other a tactical advantage.

 

Maybe, but players have been using different textures for years or adjusting settings / lua settings.

 

Some settings can be controlled by the server, but it is easy enough to gain an advantage anyway. Hopefully this is something ED can address in the future, especially for tournaments.

[Zimmerdylan]

Far as I know, NTTR sales are just fine. Servers are most likely waiting for a full release of the map before committing fully.

 

As for updates forcing you to update your computer... dont they in every piece of software out there? Eventually you need to upgrade, its a fact of life. My computer is pretty modest by many peoples standards... I have no issues running the sim currently, be it 1.5 or 2.0. I would have rather of stuck with my 386 way back when... I paid a lot for that thing.

 

So what you are saying here is that "yes", the new changes are more taxing and that people are going to have to start thinking about upgrades to their systems at this point?

As far as NTTR, I have been told flat out by many people that they're not interested. I'm not reflecting on whether NTTR is a good idea or bad idea or that the price is too steep. I purchased it and do not base me decisions on what I buy from ED on the opinions of others. All I am saying is that if ED starts charging for all of these things, they'll find themselves in a strange quandary (IMO). I personally would not have minded waiting until 2.0 was complete and paying for the whole package with NTTR, and the old map. In my mind this would have left everything open. People could have opted for the complete upgrade with further updates or stayed with 1.5 and kept flying it without updates. This is what many Gaming software companies do, and people have no issues dealing with it. This way, you could stay with a version that supports your hardware yet still play with others on line who opted to keep the older version or whatever. Battlefield, COD, Xplane, and countless others do it this way. It only seems to me that ED would be splintering if they came out with these pay improvements. I know that you Sith are on the inside of all of this, but the rest of us are on the outside so we can only speculate what's down the road. And there are still many more people who do not come to the forums sharing their thoughts via TS and they too are wondering where this is all going.

Does this mean that anyone is leaving DCS, or that they hate ED? Not at all, it only means that when people are left to their own devices, they'll speculate. You can't hold that against them, it's human nature.

[NineLine]

So what you are saying here is that "yes", the new changes are more taxing and that people are going to have to start thinking about upgrades to their systems at this point?

 

Its not that simple, but sure, some people will need to upgrade, others will find things run better as 1.5 and 2.0 are taking advantage of their systems better... there is a broad range of systems out there from cutting edge to 5, 6 and older systems...

 

As far as NTTR, I have been told flat out by many people that they're not interested. I'm not reflecting on whether NTTR is a good idea or bad idea or that the price is too steep. I purchased it and do not base me decisions on what I buy from ED on the opinions of others. All I am saying is that if ED starts charging for all of these things, they'll find themselves in a strange quandary (IMO). I personally would not have minded waiting until 2.0 was complete and paying for the whole package with NTTR, and the old map. In my mind this would have left everything open. People could have opted for the complete upgrade with further updates or stayed with 1.5 and kept flying it without updates. This is what many Gaming software companies do, and people have no issues dealing with it. This way, you could stay with a version that supports your hardware yet still play with others on line who opted to keep the older version or whatever. Battlefield, COD, Xplane, and countless others do it this way. It only seems to me that ED would be splintering if they came out with these pay improvements. I know that you Sith are on the inside of all of this, but the rest of us are on the outside so we can only speculate what's down the road. And there are still many more people who do not come to the forums sharing their thoughts via TS and they too are wondering where this is all going.

Does this mean that anyone is leaving DCS, or that they hate ED? Not at all, it only means that when people are left to their own devices, they'll speculate. You can't hold that against them, it's human nature.

 

Using the CoD method of versions isnt the gold standard, and saying that people dont have issues with it is incorrect, I can say that because I have issues with it, I much prefer being able to play the game as its upgraded... sure there is bumps here and there, but I dont see how thats any different than getting a new version every year and chances are either nothing much has changed and you are out 70 bucks, or so much has changed you need to upgrade to play it.

 

The ability to play older versions is available in DCS now, you can install older versions... honestly the majority of people want the new stuff, want the new versions, and accept the bumps in the road that come with it. You say there are people that dont like NTTR that dont come here and say so... so what, there are people that love NTTR that dont come here and say it... ED goes by their sale numbers and they can decide how its doing, and from what I understand, its doing just fine.

 

Honestly I am not sure what point you are trying to get at, beside you prefer a different business model maybe... but what we have is what we have, I dont see that changing and it seems to be working just fine for ED...