After last patch, 27ER's performance is very weak again

[Chimango]

Has anything being changed regarding ERs? They finally became a bit better on 1.5 but after last patch again they seem to go chaff hungry and almost useless.

 

Will SU-27 riders have their ERs fixed for good?

 

I will attach an ACMI file later on.

 

EDIT: ACMI file uploaded in message #30

Edited November 9, 2015 by Chimango

[Santi871]

Yep, I've noticed this, they seem to be really easy to spoof again.

[ShuRugal]

in the initial 1.5 release, all missiles were ignoring all countermeasures. the last patch restored the previous status-quo.

[Santi871]

in the initial 1.5 release, all missiles were ignoring all countermeasures. the last patch restored the previous status-quo.

 

Yeah, but that was fixed in hotfix 1, and in the patch before the current one (hotfix 3), ERs had better countermeasure resistance.

[Chimango]

Yeah, but that was fixed in hotfix 1, and in the patch before the current one (hotfix 3), ERs had better countermeasure resistance.

 

I have to agree with Santi; during hotfix 3 you could dodge an ER but within 20/15k range it became dangerous -you could still notch it anyway- now it's useless. Not to mention that IRs (ETs and 73s) love flares.

 

Please give ERs at least it's hotfix3 performance.

[Boberro]

I even didn't notice ERs were in any way better in 1.5 O_o

 

For me they have quite short legs, no loft, and are easy to avoid because radar more often loses lock in case of high maneuvers of enemy.

Poor net code also breaks lock - warping.

 

We don't know what real ERs are, perhaps in reality they may be poor too.

[Teknetinium]

PLZ ED Make MP community respect ER/ET lunches, it is not realistic at all when people exploit bad tracking of ER-27 and ET-27.

You have to understand that DCS pilots evade way more missiles then RL pilots. So we take bigger risk because DCS gives way to big reward at the moment when you do that.

 

There is no evidence that tracking of missiles was less realistic in FC1/FC2/FC3 compare to DCS 1.5.3. Tracking needs to be set to a respectable value. It is not funny.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Teknetinium

[IASGATG]

This is a tangent, but out of curiosity, why is original FC1/2 considered the golden standard for missile performance? Just playing devils advocate here, but I don't see people asking to go back to FC1 flight model for the A-10.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know that the missiles are broken now. But why do you think that FC1/2 is right? What if it's equally wrong? How do you know what right should look like if all you've seen is wrong?

[Santi871]

PLZ ED Make MP community respect ER/ET lunches, it is not realistic at all when people exploit bad tracking of ER-27 and ET-27.

You have to understand that DCS pilots evade way more missiles then RL pilots. So we take bigger risk because DCS gives way to big reward at the moment when you do that.

 

There is no evidence that tracking of missiles was less realistic in FC1/FC2/FC3 compare to DCS 1.5.3. Tracking needs to be set to a respectable value. It is not funny.

 

It's not a matter of balance or what it "should" be, it's a matter of realism - if the tracking capabilities of ERs is as bad in real life, it should be that way in DCS; if it's better, it should be improved in DCS. Doesn't get more objective than that.

[Teknetinium]

It's not a matter of balance or what it "should" be, it's a matter of realism - if the tracking capabilities of ERs is as bad in real life, it should be that way in DCS; if it's better, it should be improved in DCS. Doesn't get more objective than that.

 

Have I mentioned balance ? I talk about people exploit bad tracking of missiles that leads to unrealistic behavior on MP servers. I have no proof how good missiles should track. But if ED had some intel to set the missiles in FC1/FC2/FC3. In those versions missiles had better tracking witch in my opinion leads to more realistic MP environment. Because pilots need to take popper action and not do some straight in flying in to ET/ER whit no fear because you have countermeasures.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Teknetinium

[Ragnarok]

Slowly people, index heaven and earth in the background is not done properly. Will correct, I'm sure. I think we will get more detailed size dependent than ever.

[Teknetinium]

This is a tangent, but out of curiosity, why is original FC1/2 considered the golden standard for missile performance? Just playing devils advocate here, but I don't see people asking to go back to FC1 flight model for the A-10.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know that the missiles are broken now. But why do you think that FC1/2 is right? What if it's equally wrong? How do you know what right should look like if all you

 

I dont know if tracking was more realistic in FC1/FC2/FC3 or in DCS 1.5.3. I feel that from late FC3 MP environment degraded to a less realistic feeling since pilots take way to many risks compare to before.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Teknetinium

[Pikey]

Never seen you run from a Slammer whilst you had an ER in the air. You learn to support your ER whilst defeating so why should your enemy start running? And ive seen plenty of slammers defeated to know and watched those 51st videos on how to defeat slammers head on. Seems strange to expect people do any differently than you..

Have I mentioned balance ? I talk about people exploit bad tracking of missiles that leads to unrealistic behavior on MP servers. I have no proof how good missiles should track. But if ED had some intel to set the missiles in FC1/FC2/FC3. In those versions missiles had better tracking witch in my opinion leads to more realistic MP environment. Because pilots need to take popper action and not do some straight in flying in to ET/ER whit no fear because you have countermeasures.

[Teknetinium]

Never seen you run from a Slammer whilst you had an ER in the air. You learn to support your ER whilst defeating so why should your enemy start running? And ive seen plenty of slammers defeated to know and watched those 51st videos on how to defeat slammers head on. Seems strange to expect people do any differently than you..

 

We all adjust and fly by simulations limits, I dont blame any fighter pilot for his way of flying. It is EDs jobb to find the settings that brings a more realistic representation and behavier from fighter pilots.

 

ED are doing grate in that respect where missiles fly paths feel more alive and realistic.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Teknetinium

[AussieGhost789]

We all adjust and fly by simulations limits, I dont blame any fighter pilot for his way of flying. It is EDs jobb to find the settings that brings a more realistic representation and behavier from fighter pilots.

 

ED are doing grate in that respect where missiles fly paths feel more alive and realistic.

 

No matter how well the missiles are modeled, there's always going to be the one major factor affecting how realistically a pilot will behave in MP. The fact that getting shot down won't result in getting captured or killed. Saying that, the people who want to fly as realistically as possible, and behave as if their life is on the line, will treat missile launches differently. I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement, because there is, I'm just pointing out that there's always going to be the fact that no ones life is actually on the line and that's going to affect how people behave.

[pepin1234]

Remember the Mirage-2000 is coming...

 

I became sick of all this situation so I quit. We have not the tuning button for that.

Edited November 9, 2015 by pepin1234

[DarkFire]

I agree that the R-27ER is back to the bad old days. I was really enjoying the enhanced performance it had in the last patch. Now? I think it would be more useful if I ejected and used my service pistol to shoot at enemy aircraft :mad:

[Exorcet]

An idea for those of you making missions I suppose, a situation where F-15's find themselves with defective chaff or CM systems. I don't remember if chaff shows up in the warehouse, but I'd assume it does.

[Tello]

Every time they go and change this ingame-data I feel as they are taking one step closer to the WarThunder mentality/concept. When you release something - It can/should only be changed/corrected because new information is made available to the public.

if ED´s data is already public for us then we simply need to look there. If not, well they better create that document for all you data crunchers to test and approve/disprove them. :book:

 

I know that the BETA excuse is a good card to pull on players and I hope that it is not the case.

 

This is not what will stop me from playing the Flanker but it is a pain to know that you have basically only your adversaries fault or wrong decision to blame for your own success.

 

The same can easily be said about the AMRAAM and its missing BVR capabilities.. (well, as I understand it)

 

It should be about pilot vs pilot skills, and not about game-mechanics A vs game-mechanics B to the degree we have now.

 

o7

[Breakshot]

Couldn't agree more. But honestly, why break the ER again! Previous patch after the hotfix it was at least reasonable. It was still pretty crap, still lost track in the notch, still went for chaff.

 

But now, it just looks for the first chaff to go to. It's ridiculous!

 

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[pepin1234]

Yes it is... Remember the missiles AFM is still in developing.

 

Did you guys hear about the missiles AFM tuning is already finish? http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2548514&postcount=16

[Drona]

Oh dear, ED, these past two years have been a nightmare for AA missiles in general. Bring back the missiles from FC1/2 days for now until you get enough data to model AFM missiles and chaff/flares behaviour accurately. The situation is pretty pathetic as it stands now and really takes the fun out of flying BVR combat.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kunz

[TAW_Blaze]

Oh dear, ED, these past two years have been a nightmare for AA missiles in general. Bring back the missiles from FC1/2 days for now until you get enough data to model AFM missiles and chaff/flares behaviour accurately. The situation is pretty pathetic as it stands now and really takes the fun out of flying BVR combat.

 

Because ignoring gravity and having ludicrous flight / guidance models is better. :music_whistling:

[Breakshot]

Because ignoring gravity and having ludicrous flight / guidance models is better. :music_whistling:

Of course not Blaze. You are absolutely right. I think the question though isn't about the kinematics and physics. They are certainly way better than FC1 days, and I hope it stays that way.

 

The problem is rather with tracking and CM rejection, or rather a complete lack of for SARH and IR missiles. In general I'd say CMs are easily 2-300% more effective than in FC1 for those types of missiles.

 

As for actives, their biggest downfall is just the lack of legs and too much maneuvering drag.

 

I think all missiles need some serious love.

 

 

 

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[Breakshot]

The ERs at least were reasonable before the patch... Why screw them again!? Instead better to fix IRs and tune ARHs a bit and we're perfect...

 

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