MiG-29A as a Third Free Aircraft for DCS:W

[TheFurNinja]

[DISCLAIMER: This is not a demand, this is simply an idea of mine to make use of a "underdog" aircraft]

 

So, with the upcoming PFM and new 3d model for the MiG-29: It is progressively getting closer to a finished aircraft.

 

This brought me to an idea. Why not give the baseline MiG to the very hungry free aircraft crowd (and more importantly new pilots)?

 

So lemme sell it to you

 

For The New Guys

1.)This aircraft would be easier to fly than the Su-25T. It has superior Acceleration and Agility, allowing more room for error.

 

2.)Its multi-role, giving you a basic Fighter/Bomber package.

 

3.)Its durable (besides the current AFMs DM being crazy strong). The real MiG-29 is both durable structurally and systems wise, giving you redundant features like the HDD repeater.

 

4.)Gives you the ability to fight (while severely limited) against top of the line F-15s and Su-27s.

 

5.)It is used on both sides of DCS: Red and Blue.

 

6.)If using the radar, will not allow friendly fire (nothing more embarrassing for a new pilot).

 

For the Rest of Us

1.)Would stimulate a larger community into DCS (at the very least a little bit). This gives you a healthy boost of new and eager pilots that would populate our servers. This will give people already integrated into the community all sorts of benefits from more threats to engage/avoid to more recruits into their squadrons (not to mention new squadrons forming). All in all the pros outweigh the few cons of perhaps friendly fire, Airport Accidents, etc (and really paid players are no better than free players in this regard, new is new).

 

2.)Though you can be engaged at the same ranges as a Su-27 with the MiG-29A. The MiG does not get any more than 2xBVR missiles, carries only about 15 flare and 30 chaff presses, no ECM, no R-77, a worse radar, and no TWS2 (it is worse in every category but flight performance). This is nowhere near enough to sustain a BVR fight against other fighters.

 

3.)Has the MiGs short legs, you will likely see MiGs from the rear more than the front. Again unable to sustain air-superiority.

 

4.)If using radar, will not allow friendly fire (which is one of the most frustrating things for a vet).

 

Why the MiG-29A?

1.)IRL has been widely produced/exported. A free airplane emulates this real-world popularity.

 

2.)The MiG-29A has been made redundant by the MiG-29S. There is no reason to use or buy the MiG-29A. It has no advantages at all over the S (besides their similar flight performance).

 

3.)The MiG-29G would be far too limited and frustrating to a new pilot (as it cannot compete in any category against any other 4th gen fighter).

 

4.)Would take minimal development from the MiG-29S (as the template is already there, you just have to reduce certain parameters).

 

Alternatives (with reasons against)

1.) Sell the lower end MiGs for a reduced price. This would add a paywall. (A paywall would reduce the amount of players playing the module, further making it redundant and useless).

2.) Make the MiG-29G free (reason against listed above).

 

What do you guys say? Shall we put this plane to use?

Edited December 3, 2015 by TheFurNinja

[dartuil]

Will bring more red in MP. I agree.

A clikable one would be welcome like tf-51.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dartuil

[cichlidfan]

Next someone will want an opponent for the 29 to be free.

 

I think two free aircraft is more than sufficient for someone to decide if they want to spend the money to fly additional aircraft. Otherwise it would make more sense to give away a civilian Huey (I know, ED doesn't own it), in terms of attracting a more diverse crowd.

[TheFurNinja]

Will bring more red in MP. I agree.

A clikable one would be welcome like tf-51.

 

Not just Red, but Blue (for ukraine) as well!

 

But as much as I would love it, I think that for an entry level craft this should be normal FC3 level as to keep the curve low. Perhaps another MiG-29?

 

Next someone will want an opponent for the 29 to be free.

 

I think two free aircraft is more than sufficient for someone to decide if they want to spend the money to fly additional aircraft. Otherwise it would make more sense to give away a civilian Huey (I know, ED doesn't own it), in terms of attracting a more diverse crowd.

Yeah a low end block F-16 would also be a nice touch but this would be a start, right?

 

Wasn't one of the 3rd party developers making a free heli? Or am I mistaken?

 

In the end I think the more diverse the free list, the more people will want to come and enjoy our beautiful simulator.

Edited November 24, 2015 by TheFurNinja

[pepin1234]

I voted not. The Mig-29 is a powerful bird to be free.

[TheFurNinja]

I voted not. The Mig-29 is a powerful bird to be free.

I hope I dont come off a rude here, but...

 

The Su-25T is quite powerful too is it not? It gets SEAD capabilities, the LLTV pod, KAB-500kr, Kh-29T, Vikhrs, Wingtip Jammers, and a IR Jammer.

 

It can carry out precision strikes from high altitude and do CAS from low with a variety of weapons. It fills all the roles of a ground attacker (and is better technology wise) than the Su-25A that is in game. So why it is free and not the Su-25A?

 

Again I chose the MiG-29A for this reason, its not a top level 4th generation fighter. I would say IMO that the MiG-29S would be too much though.

[pepin1234]

The Mig-29A can shot the more powerful longer range R-27ER. This two missiles still put the Mig-29A in a difficult target level for most modern fighter up the date, plus 4 R-73. No way... I don't believe ED gone give you a Mig-29A for free.

[TheFurNinja]

The Mig-29A can shot the more powerful longer range R-27ER. This two missiles still put the Mig-29A in a difficult target level for most modern fighter up the date, plus 4 R-73. No way... I don't believe ED gone give you a Mig-29A for free.

 

But what if we could convince ED?

 

While it is true it gets the R-27ER, it is only a pair. Without ECM and more BVR missiles (we can count the %Pk of the ER being pretty low) it would be pretty unlikely that a MiG could get two BVR kills with this setup.

 

From there he would be forced to close the gap while evading AIM-120s and other R-27s so that he can get a shot with the R-73. Personally I would see it quite difficult to close that distance gap without getting hit.

 

This forces MiG-29 pilots to be stealthy in order to sustain any sort of sortie (something that cant always be done).

 

And yet again I can still say the same for the Su-25T vs the Su-25A. I would think they chose the Su-25T because its enticing and more usable as a demo aircraft (as it gives you more things to do), but the problem I see is that not everybody wants to be an attacker pilot. Why not a basic level fighter?

 

So I just came up with this idea to provide a basic CAP craft to give people just a taste of a good fighter while at the same time having limitations (Fuel, Payload, ECM, Flare/Chaff count).

Edited November 24, 2015 by TheFurNinja

[Flogger23m]

I'd like to see it free. It would give players an easier to fly plane and lots of people get into flight sims for dog fighting / air to air. The Su-25T and TF-51D are harder to fly and certainly scare off people casually trying the game. Something more forgiving upfront can attract customers.

 

And like the TF-51D, there is a more desirable versions which are paid. The MIG-29S with an ECM and R-77 capability is certainly worth paying extra for. Likewise, an armed P-51D is worth paying for. The UH-1 does not have a "better" version to fall back on. In both the case of the TF-51D and MIG-29A the majority of the work is already done for the respective paid variants.

[TheFurNinja]

I'd like to see it free. It would give players an easier to fly plane and lots of people get into flight sims for dog fighting / air to air. The Su-25T and TF-51D are harder to fly and certainly scare off people casually trying the game. Something more forgiving upfront can attract customers.

 

And like the TF-51D, there is a more desirable versions which are paid. The MIG-29S with an ECM and R-77 capability is certainly worth paying extra for. Likewise, an armed P-51D is worth paying for. The UH-1 does not have a "better" version to fall back on. In both the case of the TF-51D and MIG-29A the majority of the work is already done for the respective paid variants.

Dont forget TWS-2, the ability to fire off 3 pairs of R-77s at 6 targets is quite attractive. :smilewink:

[intx]

I voted no for the simple reason that I don't think they need to give away more content for free. They could forego the high fidelity and sell it cheaper and market it as a "beginner's" aircraft. With all the sales they have and the variety of module costs, I just don't see a need for another free plane.

[TheFurNinja]

I voted no for the simple reason that I don't think they need to give away more content for free. They could forego the high fidelity and sell it cheaper and market it as a "beginner's" aircraft. With all the sales they have and the variety of module costs, I just don't see a need for another free plane.

This could also be an option truthfully, just something cheap to get people into the game.

 

What do you think would be a good price? 5 USD?

[Beagle One]

I voted no because simply because I had to buy it.

[TheFurNinja]

I voted no because simply because I had to buy it.

As did I, but why be selfish? Plenty of people would love a fighter to fly, even if it is low-end.

 

We want people to come and enjoy our game. I would think we should share.

 

But really do you fly the MiG-29A that much? Does the equivalent 5 USD mean that much to you?

[pepin1234]

The people can learn with the Su-25T. When they see the people fighting and they get splash by fighters several times, then they feel the need to buy.

 

This is not a carnival. The people that make this Sim work everyday, they need pay their bills too.

[Flappie]

I voted no, as well.

 

In the head of many players, getting a free modern jet fighter in DCS would mean: "OK, we badly need players to join our game, so you take this free fighter and do whatever you like." Which would probably end up by many blue on blue situations ("sRy m8, I'm a n00bie lol").

 

I don't think we need more players, we need dedicated players. People who invest time, energy... and a little bit of money ($10 is too much, seriously?).

[Sweep]

I think it would be a good idea, perhaps with the 2d cockpit and SFM...It would give people the ability to learn fighter fundamentals and decide if they want a more challenging, realistic experience (like F-18, M2K, etc.). IMHO it would be a good situation for both the devs and the players. :thumbup:

[ekg]

This is still a WIP. I think you're asking ED too much here. They already give the Su-25T and TP-51 for free. That's a lot of content for $0 which they don't have to give at all.

 

I'd rather pay for a well modelled MiG-29 with DCS flight model and systems. I think the developers deserve to be well compensated for thier efforts. This is a niche sim and they put a lot of effort to it. I think that asking for it for free is a bit of an insult to them.

[Farlander]

I think a dual-seater would be a much better choice for a free aircraft.

[Roadrunner]

Wasn't one of the 3rd party developers making a free heli? Or am I mistaken?

 

the gazelle was supposed to be freeware, but as they started a buisness and had to get licence and stuff they had to make payware out of it, and i think they deserve it anyway, looking very good from what i have seen ;)

 

official statement

Edited November 24, 2015 by Roadrunner

[predattak]

I think a dual-seater would be a much better choice for a free aircraft.

 

YES! A new plane or ...add to TF-51 dual seater capability.(i mean it is a dual seater)

[Suchacz]

I doubt that another free airplane will be added to DCSW. TF-51 was introduced for free because it can show to the potential customers all the complexity of the DCS brand, Su-25T apparently couldnt do that. So for now there is no need for ED to give any other module for free, especialy not another FC fidelity plane.

 

...add to TF-51 dual seater capability.(i mean it is a dual seater)

The back seat is only for a passanger, without any controls

Edited November 24, 2015 by Suchacz

[theropod]

the idea is not bad but i voted 'no' for mig-29:)

but any cold war area jets or trainer aircraft is acceptable for me.

and i guess ED will continue to give us gifts on future.

[OnlyforDCS]

I voted no for one simple reason. The Mig29 is a very popular plane. This may come as a surprise to many but in most former eastern block countries and elsewhere it is probably even more popular than the F16. I think a lot of people would pay good money for a FC3 lvl Mig29 with the PFM, I know I would if I didn't already own it as part of the FC3 package. ED would be crazy to leave that money on the table...

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

G would be a better suited freebie.

 

Since it's unloved.

 

Either way, having an aircraft capable of air-to-air as a freebie in DCS would be a good idea.