MiG-29A as a Third Free Aircraft for DCS:W

[archer86]

I vote for a jet trainer or a demilitarized jet, not Mig-29.

[kazereal]

No need for freebies now.

There is already one SSM module, another one would not make a difference in getting new people on board.

[Flogger23m]

No need for freebies now.

There is already one SSM module, another one would not make a difference in getting new people on board.

 

I know people who wrote off DCS due to the Su-25T flight characteristics and only got into it after acquiring a F-15/Su-27 months later. It was too difficult for them as they had no prior flight sim experience. The Frogfoot is on an entirely different level of difficultly when it comes to the actual flight characteristics. Even taking off is much harder. I suppose the easier to fly jets allowed them to ease into the game.

[zxarkov]

I voted no. For all amazing work they are doing in upgrading the Mig 29, some compensation is deserved. I look forward to flying it a lot more ;)

[Sryan]

I vote for yes. You guys realise there's a better S model only buyers can fly? Some of us are always working on having new people try out the sim. the Su25T is a little sluggish wich leaves the first impression that the game is sluggish. The mudmoving isn't really that hard but it can be daunting for a newcomer. The air to air also has it's own appeal, and if newcomers can judge DCS on its merrits in that sector they may become more marketable to the upcoming fighters like ED's F/A18, LNS' F14 or VEAO's Eurofighter.

 

As for a free helicopter, I doubt that'll happen. None of the helicopters are really suitable to make a free version of, in my eyes. Other than maybe an unarmed civilian Huey. Still, to fly helicopters you're really gonna need to have some periphials.

[Kuky]

For free... No

[Witchking]

I don't know how people expect ED to put so much work and effort to make this a detailed simulation and still not understand the basic economics that you cannot have everything for free. ED have enough sales already. And as mentioned, the FC3 aircraft traditionally are only $10. $10 for something devs have put in 100s of hours to make. During these sales, they go down to 50% or $5. Seriously? That is less than a bus ride to and fro in most cities.

[LuSi_6]

I don't know how people expect ED to put so much work and effort to make this a detailed simulation and still not understand the basic economics that you cannot have everything for free. ED have enough sales already. And as mentioned, the FC3 aircraft traditionally are only $10. $10 for something devs have put in 100s of hours to make. During these sales, they go down to 50% or $5. Seriously? That is less than a bus ride to and fro in most cities.

 

Free stuff is marketing stuff. spending less money on marketing is like stopping a clock to safe time :smilewink:

[skouras]

i think that with so many 70% sales that ED makes is everything free....

[Tucano_uy]

How can a company survive giving popular things for free? I already consider that having the Su-25T for free is a LOT. Free stuff should work, in this case, to see if the program runs well on your machine, as a showcase and a teaser. And that's it.

 

A limited time trial for the modules would work, but I guess there are security issues around that.

[Koriel]

Tbh, a -29 is sexy, a -25 or a neutered -51 ain't. I think a free Fulcrum it's a good idea.

[OnlyforDCS]

The Su25T is still the only proper SEAD weapons platform in the game. It's a wonderful plane to get into what is possible in DCS World, however I agree with the sentiment that it is not an easy plane to get into for beginners, and that it's not a particularly glamorous plane to fly.

 

I agree with the OP that Eagle Dynamics would attract more players by giving them something a little bit more attractive to fly, but I don't think giving them freebies in the form of new planes is really going to attract any significant numbers. What ED needs to do is revamp their entire game system, which in a way they are already doing with the upcoming 2.0, and release a comprehensive training system for one of their free planes. That IMO would go along a lot farther than another free plane completely out of context. I think new players who already go through the trouble of installing DCS World and one of the free modules, are not turned off by the free planes themselves, but with the lack of context for those very planes in relation to DCS World itself. Does the Su25T Feature fully interactive training missions? I know that it has an old, probably very outdated campaign. Flying one of the first missions over and over again and getting shot down over and over again is not really fun. What about the unarmed P51? What is its purpose in the game? Give it some meaning (I.E. some great tutorial missions), some context and it becomes a fun learning platform.

 

Player retention is more important that the wow factor. The wow factor is already there when I show people who have no idea what DCS is some videos of DCS in action. Put those very same people behind the controls and the wow factor is quickly replaced by the "Erm..." factor. More free planes are not going to help here, better designed tutorials and starting missions are.

Edited November 27, 2015 by OnlyforDCS

[Kuky]

Free stuff is marketing stuff. spending less money on marketing is like stopping a clock to safe time :smilewink:

 

Well when you work for weeks/months on a module and want to advertise it, you give it away for free :music_whistling:

[Solty]

What if ED made better activation system and gave people ability to register their accounts and have an ability to choose 2 planes for free for a limited trial time(1-2 weeks)?

 

For example, I am a hardcore WW2 player. I want a good sim with Fw190. Oh, it's price is high, wonder if it is worth it. Thats' a high price for only one plane. With the new improved system, I can choose the Fw190 as one of my planes for trial. And fly it for a trial time. I would get familiar have some fun at MP and SP.

 

That way new customers that are not part of already existing fan base, would get to try the thing that is interesting to them. There could be discount achievment, lets say -5% for completing the tutorial.

 

What do you think?

[King_Hrothgar]

I think it's fine as is. A fighter might make a better demo plane, but whatever is provided as the demo plane needs to give a good first impression and also be easily approached by someone truly new (think war thunder mouse aim type that wants to try a proper sim). I don't think the MiG-29 fits that description. The simplest plane in DCS is the Su-25A followed closely by the A-10A and Su-25T. It might be better if the Su-25A were the free plane, but at this point it wouldn't make much sense to swap them.

[Tello]

After I finished learning(did not die all the time) with the Su-25T I was hooked on DCS. And I could not wait for a Sale to get my hands on a new module so I bought A-10C and FC3. I agree that maybe my purchases would have come out different if I could test/try some of the modules first before putting money in DCS World, but no matter I am sure I would end up buying all of them anyway. As I posted earlier I don't think that module A or B is the reason for anyone that they start with this sim, - then want to go and spend a lot of money on hardware like pedals, trackIR, HOTAS, MFD and so on, only to see if a flight sim is something for them.. This is so tiny a market and ED need all the profit they can get.. that is what I think - Oh and Youtubers "play" a big part in the sale argument for me. I only bought the Ka-50 after some youtubing. Call me a dumb customer then :P

 

If anything should be added to the Free module list all logic would point at the two seater training version, then you could taste flight in DCS with out being a/the pilot and needed only to ask if some one would give you a tour de DCS from above. :pilotfly:

 

What do you think?

[tobaschi]

guys ! guys ! i have a awesome better and revolutionising idea !

 

..

 

 

just buy it

[Sryan]

guys ! guys ! i have a awesome better and revolutionising idea !

 

..

 

 

just buy it

 

Most of us own the FC3 pack. We don't want the MiG29A for ourselves, We'd like it to be a plane we could show to newcomers. So people have something to try that isn't moving mud in that slug. How about a compromise then? the Free one only has the gun and heaters or something like that.

[NineLine]

If your friends cant get a good idea about DCS from the two free modules, and the hundreds and hundreds of videos out there, then they arent going to get it...

[mattebubben]

Im an owner of all the mig-29s.

 

And i gotta say that i think this is a good idea.

 

First because it would give a fighter in the free version giving more ppl a feel for the fighter part of the game without having to buy modules.

 

But the Mig-29A is still Far less powerfull then any other of the FC3 fighters including the later Mig-29s.

 

And at the moment pretty much no one uses the Mig-29A to the point where none of the MP servers i have ever played on have it as a selectable aircraft.

 

Since whats the point?... when you have to pick between the Mig-29A and the Mig-29S the A has no advantage so why would you fly it when you have the Mig-29S instead.

 

And i really dont think the Mig-29A would be OP in anyway...

 

And i also think it would be a good thing for ED Business wise since it would give new players a better look at fighters making it more likley for new ppl that are not that interested in ground attack to keep playing and buy modules later on.

 

And its not like anyone bought FC3 Just for the Mig-29A...

[Flogger23m]

The simplest plane in DCS is the Su-25A...

 

I actually disagree. The lack of a HUD makes it much harder to see speed, altitude, weapons selected or weapon status. Remember most people don't have Track IR. Even I don't. This makes panning around the pit difficult when flying. Many years back I found the F-15C and Flanker/Fulcrum the easiest. They have power to get out of tight situations to where the P-51/Su-25 would stall and crash.

 

If your friends cant get a good idea about DCS from the two free modules, and the hundreds and hundreds of videos out there, then they arent going to get it...

 

I disagree after viewing a few cases which were the opposite. While it certainly is little proof, I think if an easier/attractive plane can retain 10% more players then it is a great win for ED.

 

I also do question how well a standalone MIG-29A module will sell. There are really three possibilities here:

 

1) Those that have FC3 already have both the A and S.

 

2) The MIG-29A is rather similar to the S, so maybe ED plans on including both in a single module anyways. Thus making the A essentially free to those who buy the S.

 

3) Both will be stand alone modules and most people will end up buying FC3 or just the standalone MIG-29S. When presented with an option to buy a standalone A essentially no one will.

 

Where as something like a F-16A to a F-16C Block 52+ is a massive difference in terms of artwork, flight modelling and avionics, the MIG-29A and S are rather similar. Flight characteristics and visual characteristics (cockpit) are essentially the same between the two. There is little reason to buy the A module when you can get the S as it can do everything the A can.

 

I don't really see much of a market for the A as a standalone module. I don't think it will be making ED much money considering the S model is available.

 

All this being said it is just my opinion and it doesn't benefit myself personally. I already bought LOMAC/FC/FC2/FC3 so I have the MIG-29A and S.

[Why485]

If your friends cant get a good idea about DCS from the two free modules, and the hundreds and hundreds of videos out there, then they arent going to get it...

 

I disagree. Neither modules are representative of DCS nor do they present the game in a way that I think is terribly convincing to a new player.

 

The TF-51 is a prop plane. DCS was not built for props, and is not a good WWII game. The TF-51 has no weapons either, so even if DCS was a decent WWII game, the player would never be able to do anything interesting with it other than fly around. The only thing it has going for it is that it is fully simulated, but if you want to play DCS for the jets, then what you learn systems-wise in the TF-51 is largely irrelevant and/or uninteresting.

 

Meanwhile, the Su-25T is a FC3 jet, which means it is very simplified from a systems perspective and thus does not represent the detailed jets in the game. It is also a ground attack aircraft, and thus completely misses out on the interesting mechanics and interplay that comes in air to air combat that is featured in FC3, MiG-21, and very soon the Mirage 2000C. If a player is interested in fast jets or air to air combat, there is nothing representative in the game to give them a taste for that or how cool it could be.

 

My ideal free aircraft for DCS is one that doesn't exist. At least not yet. I think some kind of very simple, but multi-role and fully systems modeled plane capable of both rudimentary air to air and air to ground would be best. Something with a radar. Something like the upcoming F-5, actually, even if it doesn't have radar guided missiles.

 

The MiG-29A is honestly not a bad choice. It's fine in air to air with perfectly good missiles (R-27ET/ER and R-73) and a working radar. It can also do rudimentary air to ground work with an assortment of bombs and rockets. It's not specialized for it, nor can it use some of the cooler weapons, but it doesn't need to be if the Su-25T is around.

 

Saying that it'll be "too effective" is silly argument against the idea. The point is to get people to want to try and buy the DCS modules, which I think such a plane very well could. My main point of contention against using the MiG-29A as a free jet is if it uses the current SFM, which should absolutely not be used in something mean to represent DCS World.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

How can a company survive giving popular things for free? I already consider that having the Su-25T for free is a LOT. Free stuff should work, in this case, to see if the program runs well on your machine, as a showcase and a teaser. And that's it.

 

A limited time trial for the modules would work, but I guess there are security issues around that.

 

Yes, because the red-headed step child of FC3 is a key component of ED's income.

[Tomhatter]

I love free stuff as much as the next guy or gal but in this case, a giant negative on the FREE vote. I want the MiG-29 to be a masterpiece. Also, if ED ever decides to make the Su-25 a PFM, which they should, I would expect the same quality as all the other PFM flight models. Quality is the key word and it's not spelled FREE.

[=DECOY=]

they should build the mig-35 instead ;)