DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

[schroedi]

the a10c screams at you when he is overflying the point, so you should pretty much exactly update it with the correct point if you fly behind him. Then you burn away to 7km of alt to send your BK90s on their journey with maximum standoff and precision. :))

 

Another question, can we expect to be able to recognize areas like airports on Radar from something like 20km ?

 

 

And Thx for the answers !

 

This tactic doesn't make any sense because you want to use a stand off weapon to stay away from the (heavily defended) target, but your buddy in the A-10C should overfly that target.

Maybe after that he isn't your buddy anymore.:megalol:

[microvax]

wait one;

 

how do people find it more interesting to speculate about release date, then to talk about the engineering. :D

 

Also, have a update from 4days ago:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2807583&postcount=2

[RaXha]

DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

 

This tactic doesn't make any sense because you want to use a stand off weapon to stay away from the (heavily defended) target, but your buddy in the A-10C should overfly that target.

 

Maybe after that he isn't your buddy anymore.:megalol:

 

 

 

Exactly, what is to be used for fix points is known points in the terrain, like church towers, lakes, communications towers etc. These are most likely already programmed into the computer beforehand. Viggen strike missions were usually somewhat pre-planned. :-)

[microvax]

This tactic doesn't make any sense because you want to use a stand off weapon to stay away from the (heavily defended) target, but your buddy in the A-10C should overfly that target.

Maybe after that he isn't your buddy anymore.:megalol:

 

 

It doesnt make any sense because you didnt understand what I meant ! :D

 

I meant overflying the point the viggen did enter to correct the drift of its Nav System, which can be literally 50-100km away, depending on needed accuracy. Needs good formation flying skillz or autopilot, but should result in a pretty damn good correction and is really only needed if you do a high alt release, on low alt overflying a predefined building, river junction, whatevar, 1-2km before weapon release should be perfect.

 

But on high alt overflying a point is pretty inaccurate, unless you use f10 map, aka cheating. Even then lining up your plane to overfly a point lets say within 25m accuracy is pretty hard.

 

For marking a predefined point with radar I do not know how usable that will be. Judging from the pictures of Viggens Radar screen at work I would imagine it beeing not that accurate, aka acurate enough for knowing where you are, but not as accurate as you want it to be for bombing.

 

IIRC there were reflectors placed at known locations in sweden, that should yield pretty good accuracy and if we get theese as units in DCS, that you can just place somewhere to correct your NAV even from altitude with good precision, that would be marvelous, but somehow I do not expect that tbh.

 

So flying at 20kft behind your A10c target designation buddy, flanking to the target area, 70km away, correcting your NAV as said, then turn towards it and clibm to high alt with max speed at realease, should work pretty well if no other precision correction method is available.

 

IF you can enter correction coordinates while in flight, what I expect but do not know.

 

Should probably play around with the KA50 INS a bit. Has technically the same ways to correct it, if you do not have the Glonass running, minus the TERRNAV option. [With the Shkval taking the role of the radar, which has its advantages and disadvantages I guess.]

I remember some early US cruise missiles using the TERRNAV approach. I think it was the one with the open nuclear reactor Ramjet which was cancelled, because it was considered to terryfying. :DD

[Silver_Dragon]

and the Viggen pilot and a update on december

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=157420

[OxideMako]

That said, it's a bit irksome to not see any previews, yet. After all, we've seen the untextured Tomcat, wheels of an unfinished piston fighter, and we saw the MiG previewed in EDGE, too.

 

We have also seen a textured cockpit shot with some form of HUD for the F-14, but nothing of the like for the Viggen yet.

 

[microvax]

Oh I am a thinking a little bit to complicated again, one can greatly simplify what I wanted to do.

 

A10c recon and AJS37 agree on a correction point somewhere far enough from the target area, A10c and AJS37 form up at altitude in tight formation with the viggen directly behind the a10c, the A10c is just used literally to be a guide for the Viggen to overfly the point at high alt. The second the a10c overflies the predefined point he tells the viggen pilot which in that moment engages the correction mechanism. => profit because less time to target then correcting yourself at low alt, climbing to alt and lining up => less time for drift => more accurate bombing => instant win.

 

Great would also be an option to release an BK90 with an bearing+range launch parameter. That would exclude the drift factor, if you somehow know bearing and range to target by GCI or something. But I doubt that exists. Would not yield all to much advantage since, as said, Viggen is not the plane for loitering around and releasing on targets of opportunity.

But what could be done pretty easily is taking yourself coordinates plus bearing+range from external like GCI, when you arrive at the target area, calculate the coordinates from the INS perspective, which can be done in a few seconds by programm, enter them and release that way. That removes the need for correction, if you have an external source telling you your range and bearing from target. But probably pretty inaccurate at ranges you want to release from high up. And down low you dont need any halp I guess.

[RaXha]

DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

 

Oh I am a thinking a little bit to complicated again, one can greatly simplify what I wanted to do.

 

A10c recon and AJS37 agree on a correction point somewhere far enough from the target area, A10c and AJS37 form up at altitude in tight formation with the viggen directly behind the a10c, the A10c is just used literally to be a guide for the Viggen to overfly the point at high alt. The second the a10c overflies the predefined point he tells the viggen pilot which in that moment engages the correction mechanism. => profit because less time to target then correcting yourself at low alt, climbing to alt and lining up => less time for drift => more accurate bombing => instant win.

 

Great would also be an option to release an BK90 with an bearing+range launch parameter. That would exclude the drift factor, if you somehow know bearing and range to target by GCI or something. But I doubt that exists. Would not yield all to much advantage since, as said, Viggen is not the plane for loitering around and releasing on targets of opportunity.

But what could be done pretty easily is taking yourself coordinates plus bearing+range from external like GCI, when you arrive at the target area, calculate the coordinates from the INS perspective, which can be done in a few seconds by programm, enter them and release that way. That removes the need for correction, if you have an external source telling you your range and bearing from target. But probably pretty inaccurate at ranges you want to release from high up. And down low you dont need any halp I guess.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the Bk-90 is designed to be released down low. :-) it can glide up to 10 km if released at 50 meters agl at mach 0.9. Releasing it at high altitude just increases the probability of the capsule being detected and intercepted. :-)

Edited June 14, 2016 by RaXha

[microvax]

I'm pretty sure the Bk-90 is designed to be released down low. :-) it can glide up to 10 km if released at 50 meters agl at mach 0.9. Releasing it at high altitude just increases the probability of the capsule being detected and intercepted. :-)

 

Yes, indeed that was a special spec the swedes did put up which it was designed for, capability to be released at really low altitudes. And that is awesome and tbh I will enjoy that way more then trying to get as much standoff as possible.

I am already doing stuff like approaching fully defended airfield with an mirage at 50ft radar alt and drop high drag ordanance and hell its fun to go under powerlines with planes ! :D

So I will really enjoy that for sure. The thing is at that speed and alt shilkas, strelas and SA3 dont even engage you at all, even at fly over. And mostly you do not get picked off by fighters if they are at least busy with your own CAP, only when you passed the target area that happens.

If breaking away 10km in front of the target area is enough to evade enemy CAP even if they arent that busy, I dunno, we will see.

Its also questionable if the 22km standoff at high alt [uSAF tested the DWS39 to be capable of 22km at 7km alt, dunno the launch speed though, guess its the same mach 0.9, since you can get 20km standoff with GBU12s if you launch them supersonic a little higher.] will protect you from enemy fighters, depends on the amount of CAP you bring yourself, I guess.

 

So why consider high altitude release ?

I am not sure about the suitability of low alt high speed penetration against stuff like TORs and tunguskas. No Idea. But 22km standoff at 7km alt will be sufficient for sure.

[saw some mentions of 30km, I guess that would be max alt max speed release, dunno though, no credible source found so far for that one.]

 

So yeah, low alt release is glorious but I do also see application for higher alt => higher range releases. :)

 

For the interception part: We will see in what way DCS ground units intercept the DWS39, for SEAD missiles its already pretty random, [s300 engaging kh58 but not 25mpu, meanwhile probably less capable Tunguska and TOR engage 25MPUs.]

 

Shilkas wont be a threat I guess, they have so bad accuracy that you even can get within one kilometer with a helicopter without dying, so that thing is out of the question.

Tunguskas are complete robocop and detect targets down to 2m and even engage them with missiles which is broken, even the produces lists minimum engagement alt as 15m, but hey DCS.

TORs are pretty capable in engaging 25MPUs, never fired anything else at them.

So management summary, if Tunguska engages DWS39s, the only way is to launch many of them anyway I guess, then the high alt part isnt that much of an issue anymore anyway.

 

Really looking forward for playing around with tactics for that very special weapon system ! :)

[mattebubben]

But then again seeing as the Caucasus map has alot mountains and hilly terrain is you fly low and with the terrain one should be able to get decently close to most targets even if they are heavily defended.

 

Just stay in down low amongst the terrain untill you get close enough to the target where you can make a high speed pop up release the weapons then get back into the terrain to evade any incoming fire.

 

And if you use the mountains you can also get great cover while still getting increased range (from the altitude)

 

For example allot of airfields would be in the dangerzone.

 

For example Sochi and Gudauta.

 

As if you flew through the mountains then made a high speed pop up over the mountain tops you could have enough speed / Alt for the weapon to reach all the way to the Airfields.

 

While at the same time exposing yourself to minimal danger from the air defenses.

 

And there are many more airfields that are close to hilly / mountainous terrain.

[microvax]

But then again seeing as the Caucasus map has alot mountains and hilly terrain is you fly low and with the terrain one should be able to get decently close to most targets even if they are heavily defended.

 

Just stay in down low amongst the terrain untill you get close enough to the target where you can make a high speed pop up release the weapons then get back into the terrain to evade any incoming fire.

 

And if you use the mountains you can also get great cover while still getting increased range (from the altitude)

 

For example allot of airfields would be in the dangerzone.

 

For example Sochi and Gudauta.

 

As if you flew through the mountains then made a high speed pop up over the mountain tops you could have enough speed / Alt for the weapon to reach all the way to the Airfields.

 

While at the same time exposing yourself to minimal danger from the air defenses.

 

And there are many more airfields that are close to hilly / mountainous terrain.

 

True that ! :) And it should be a lot more fun and rewarding then pressing a button flying in a straight line at alt.

Still would love to try the high alt long range stuff. Just for sake of possiblity!:joystick:

[mattebubben]

True that ! :) And it should be a lot more fun and rewarding then pressing a button flying in a straight line at alt.

Still would love to try the high alt long range stuff. Just for sake of possiblity!:joystick:

 

And using the high alt alternative in something like a viggen would be alot easier then in a A-10 example as flying on the deck you can very quickly zoom climb to that altitude (just go After burner and climb) while in the A-10 etc it takes some time to reach altitudes

(if you want to maintain any forwards momentum at the same time)

[microvax]

And using the high alt alternative in something like a viggen would be alot easier then in a A-10 example as flying on the deck you can very quickly zoom climb to that altitude (just go After burner and climb) while in the A-10 etc it takes some time to reach altitudes

(if you want to maintain any forwards momentum at the same time)

 

Viggen is love, Viggen is life.

 

First thunderbolt [afaik Viggen means thunderbolt right ?] best thunderbolt ! ;)

 

EDIT: Kinda a late spark, yeah thats really good, stay low to stay off radar, get yourself a last NAV update while mowing the lawn, spaceclimb, accelerate to ludicrous speed, release, split S away, go back to lawn mowing alt.

 

Conclusion: I have a tendency to make things more complicated then they are, unless the climbing part does have a noticeably bigger impact on NAV accuracy then climbing lets say only half the alt.

Exciting times we life in ! :D

Edited June 14, 2016 by microvax

[cyberwings]

Sorry if this was already confirm.

The DCS Viggen It’s really an interesting plane with many new features that makes it unique next to the other modules but I think this plane should come with its own map.

Viggen + Baltic map add the possibility of one of the most immersive campaigns with a completely new fresh scenario. I wouldn’t mind paying 100 Us dollars for the Viggen and a new scenario. Plus this map would also work for the BO-105 Hkp 9 currently in development. Crazy idea, perhaps Polychop could contribute with some features for this map.

Sorry but I reach the point where I prefer to buy a new map module than a new plane.

[RaXha]

DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

 

Sorry if this was already confirm.

The DCS Viggen It’s really an interesting plane with many new features that makes it unique next to the other modules but I think this plane should come with its own map.

Viggen + Baltic map add the possibility of one of the most immersive campaigns with a completely new fresh scenario. I wouldn’t mind paying 100 Us dollars for the Viggen and a new scenario. Plus this map would also work for the BO-105 Hkp 9 currently in development. Crazy idea, perhaps Polychop could contribute with some features for this map.

Sorry but I reach the point where I prefer to buy a new map module than a new plane.

 

 

 

Cobra mentioned this in the new years update (specifically about the Viggen and corsair):

 

"We have spent considerable time and resources into making sure that the products we create have an appropriate environment, opponents and other content."

Edited June 15, 2016 by RaXha

[BravoYankee4]

Sorry if this was already confirm.

The DCS Viggen It’s really an interesting plane with many new features that makes it unique next to the other modules but I think this plane should come with its own map.

Viggen + Baltic map add the possibility of one of the most immersive campaigns with a completely new fresh scenario. I wouldn’t mind paying 100 Us dollars for the Viggen and a new scenario. Plus this map would also work for the BO-105 Hkp 9 currently in development. Crazy idea, perhaps Polychop could contribute with some features for this map.

Sorry but I reach the point where I prefer to buy a new map module than a new plane.

 

VEAO is doing as Vampire that could be put in this map as well against the MIG-15. Hopefully with an official Swedish version (J 28 ), else I'm pretty sure there would be a skin made by this community pretty soon :)

[Hook47]

Just to get the history straight. Last March (or even Feb?), in 2015, it was said that a modern module as well as a WWII one (or similar wording) were to be announced within the next month (or two? - at most). Already back then we had enough clues to think it was the Viggen. That's how long we've been waiting for the official announcement.

 

Thus is very true. Most of us had the Viggen pegged after that early clue. It's a long road, but it'll be worth it guys

 

LNS has indeed picked a strange approach to the Viggen product, pretty much the total opposite of traditional marketing strategy would dictate, and even though that will probably mean less sales for them they are willing to trade that for an epic reveal I reckon

[ActionMav]

LNS has indeed picked a strange approach to the Viggen product, pretty much the total opposite of traditional marketing strategy would dictate, and even though that will probably mean less sales for them they are willing to trade that for an epic reveal I reckon

 

That is true. It is truly unbelieveable that after all these months we haven't even seen one single screenshot of the model. It is really difficult to get the idea behind that. But I am sure they know why! I have a big trust in this team.

[Manuel_108]

I have more trust in the F-14 than in the Viggen.

[BravoYankee4]

Thus is very true. Most of us had the Viggen pegged after that early clue. It's a long road, but it'll be worth it guys

 

LNS has indeed picked a strange approach to the Viggen product, pretty much the total opposite of traditional marketing strategy would dictate, and even though that will probably mean less sales for them they are willing to trade that for an epic reveal I reckon

 

I assume the original plan was to shock the community with a total surprise, since all radars where locked on the F-14 at that time.

Obviously the moment of surprise is long gone by now, so who knows what they are up to now?

I still believe we will be surprised in one way or another. Not just by an awesome module, but perhaps bundled with an as awesome map/scenario/mission pack. Or perhaps a new Russian fighter to meet up with? Or a complete invading navy fleet with armored and infantry units to put on the shores of Sweden?

Anyway, just a Viggen would do my day any day :thumbup:

[Buzzles]

LNS simply want to do a near release announcement with the Viggen, nothing more exciting. They have said that before, and the F14 is just an exception to their new policy.

They probably want to announce and release within a window of a couple of weeks, which is pretty much how BST do it as well.

 

Cobra's said they were in month(ish) long crunch to finish the module recently, I'd imagine we'll hear from them soon.

[SpeedStick]

Just to get the history straight. Last March (or even Feb?), in 2015, it was said that....

 

haha wow, is that right? Little anecdote: I met a friend last weekend that I hadn't met in a very long time. Catching up he asked if I was still doing flight sim stuff and I said

"Yeah and do you know that they're gonna release Viggen sim!?"

He replied "Didnt you say that last year?"

[Sim Flyer]

They probably want to announce and release within a window of a couple of weeks, which is pretty much how BST do it as well..

 

Wouldnt really say that is how Belsimtek is doing it, as far as i know their releases were announced almost 2 months before release and i think they have done that since day one (but i might be wrong, correct me if i am).

[QuiGon]

Wouldnt really say that is how Belsimtek is doing it, as far as i know their releases were announced almost 2 months before release and i think they have done that since day one (but i might be wrong, correct me if i am).

 

Which is a very short time compared to most other modules that are announced a year or more in advance.

[Sim Flyer]

I agree on that it was a correction of the 2 weeks compared to 2 months, not a criticism of Belsimtek as i am really enjoying their work, especially the Huey.