AV-8B Harrier Thread

[Coxy_99]

Can not wait for this how many are going to crash and fall out the sky hehe

[Rammit]

[ame]

[/ame]

 

Nice bit from James May on the Harrier T.12

[Dudikoff]

In DCS you would use it as a mini A-10 of sorts, but one that can also do some vertical take off / landing tricks, at least when not heavily loaded.

 

IMHO, it should be noted that it's operated exclusively by USMC (unlike the A-10 which is operated by USAF) so it would be used to provide CAS and perhaps limited air cover for their troops, especially from their amphibious assault platforms.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Dudikoff

[Einherjer]

What's about HARM and Harpoon? Is the AV-8B-NA version able to use them or is the radar of the II+ required?

[toni]

Would need some kind of Assauld Ship LHD for this bird and combine with Naval Ops.

[RoflSeal]

In the Falklands, it was used as bomber and fighter (thus, their was no land bases airbase, only british carriers).

 

You forgot about the San Carlos FOB

 

 

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/04/harrier-forward-operating-base-falkland-islands/

[Rammit]

Would need some kind of Assauld Ship LHD for this bird and combine with Naval Ops.

 

The closest we can get at the minute is the Kuznetsov with its ski jump, but HMS Ark Royal or a Wasp Class LHD would be perfect

[hvymtal]

What's about HARM and Harpoon? Is the AV-8B-NA version able to use them or is the radar of the II+ required?

AFAIK the NA's stores management system doesn't even recognize the Harpoon, since it doesn't have a radar it can only use the "go this way and shoot the first thing you see" mode which is a waste of a perfectly good ASM. I don't know if the NA has ARM targeting, the Marines really like the D Bugs so I don't imagine it does

 

As far as a landing ship goes, since its kind of the primary way the marines employ the harrier I'd say it is likely in the pipeline

[Call911]

Was reading this on fb about the A10C (real) upgrading to using these, they also mentioned that the Harrier has used em also. Is it possible the RazBam Harrier will have these?

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-a-10-warthog-just-got-a-little-more-badass-2016-6?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp%3Fr%3DUK&IR=T

[Zakatak]

How many AIM-9's can this version carry? Can it use 9M's?

[WinterH]

How many AIM-9's can this version carry? Can it use 9M's?

 

As far as I recall yes on L&M and it can carry six of them.

 

Aircraft specifics & manual are available on avialogs for online viewing you can check there.

[Cytt0rak]

Can we employ laser guided munitions without a buddy? It seems like this variant doesnt carry TGP.

[Darkbrotherhood7]

Can we employ laser guided munitions without a buddy? It seems like this variant doesnt carry TGP.

 

Yes, it will carry a TGP.

[schroedi]

It also has a build in laser in the nose, so yes it can guide laser guided munitions without a buddy and without a pod. I don't know if it's only laser guided Mavericks or if it is also possible to use LGBs without a pod, but i highly doubt that.

Directly in the nose is a TV camera and a laser and above the nose is a a FLIR.

[ZHeN]

IIRC that thing in the nose is just a laser spot tracker, not a designator

[WinterH]

I wonder if the sensor on nose is capable of lasing for bombs though? Unless I am mistaken, it is from early 80s and very few aircraft back then were able to self lase for LGBs.

 

Guiding a powered missile is different, since weapon will be ahead of the plane at the time of impact. A bomb though, it will either be directly underneath the aircraft, if not behind. Usually, a sensor that is able to self lase for bombs is able to look directly beneath and even behind the aircraft. Nose mounted internal sensors seldomly able to that.

 

Anyone knows definitive info about what the optical sensor on the nose is capable?

 

Edit : forgot to click send, and sniped by ZHeN :).

 

Re-Edit :

 

Also, according to this from '86 it only carries AGM-65E laser mavericks. I wonder if it later got TV and / or IIR mavericks too. Though, the version in document probably isn't the Night Attack one.

Edited June 20, 2016 by WinterH

[mattebubben]

the AN/ASB-19 (nose mounted sensor/optic)

 

is not able to Lase (as has already been stated)

 

It has a Automatic Laser Scanner that will scan the area covered by the TV camera and look for any spots that are targeted by a Laser.

 

So if there is a Targeting laser (either Ground or Aircraft Based Laser) designating a target or point of ground

 

then the Scanner will see it and can automatically lock onto the designated target.

 

But it can not lase itself.

 

And the Pilot can use the TV Camera Part of the AN/ASB-19 to look around for targets (and lock/track them once a target has been found)

and it can be used together with the AGM-65s (atleast to find targets dont know if it can slave the AGM-65 seeker to the target)

but mostly its used to aid with the use of unguided munitions (Rockets,Bombs,Guns etc)

by finding / designating a target on the hud and giving accurate range information/calculating targeting solutions.

but to guide Laser guided munitions it will either require a Targeting Pod or a buddy lase

(JTAC or otherwise).

 

Some informations about the AN/ASB-19 can be found in the PDF below for those interested

 

There is also a WIKI page for the AN/ASB-19 for some more info in addition to the PDF.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/ASB-19

NN0533.pdf

Edited June 20, 2016 by mattebubben

[Rammit]

During the Falklands War in 1982 RAF Harrier Gr.3s equipped with a laser spot tracker in the nose tested LGBs against Argentine positions with one aircraft in trail designating the target and found that the lasers were incompatible with seeker heads on LGBs. The AV-8B is able to carry a TGP (Litening I believe) so LGBs will be employable

[mattebubben]

During the Falklands War in 1982 RAF Harrier Gr.3s equipped with a laser spot tracker in the nose tested LGBs against Argentine positions with one aircraft in trail designating the target and found that the lasers were incompatible with seeker heads on LGBs. The AV-8B is able to carry a TGP (Litening I believe) so LGBs will be employable

 

Well also the Gr.3 is a whole different machine (and it has a different nose mounter seeker system)

 

so its completely different from the AN/ASB-19 carried on the Gr.5(Gr.7 and Gr.9) or Av-8B.

 

The Gr.3 carried the Ferranti 106 and it only had a laser range finder + Laser tracker and not a Camera system as well like the AN/ASB-19.

 

But they were very different systems.

 

And also the Gr.3 pilots were well aware that the Laser tracker was unable to guide LGBs

(as its a very different system and was never intended or thought to be able to lase for LGBs)

 

and in the Falklands campaign they relied on Troops on the ground designating targets for them.

 

And it could be Litening compatible depending on what Date of AV-8B NA they decide on simulating.

 

If they want to simulate it as it would have been equipped in the 1990s then it probably wont have a TGP but later then that it should have it.

 

So while the IRL AV-8B NA can use the Litening it did not do so from day one.

 

So we will have to wait and see.

Edited June 20, 2016 by mattebubben

[Vitormouraa]

The AV-8B WILL be able to use the Litening Pod. :)

[Rammit]

And also the Gr.3 pilots were well aware that the Laser tracker was unable to guide LGBs

(as its a very different system and was never intended or thought to be able to lase for LGBs)

 

There were a couple accounts in Harrier Boys by Bob Marston about LGB tests in combat over enemy positions before it was actually confirmed that the range finder could not guide the weapon seeker itself, this was after LGBs were employed guided by ground designation IIRC to see if Harriers could operate without the need for ground designation, evidently it failed and they reverted the ground designation shortly before the war ended.

 

The Gr.3 example was just intended to be;

1) interesting

and 2) to highlight the inability of most laser rangefinding devices to designate targets for laser guided weapons. But yes, you are right that the Hawker Siddley Harriers differ greatly from the Harrier II series, not just in designation technology

[Tirak]

The AV-8B WILL be able to use the Litening Pod. :)

 

Will it be center line mountable? From what I was able to find when I went searching I found that they could be mounted on a BRU-36 rack in the center.

 

http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.PrintNewsStory&id=4751

 

 

Also, will you be modeling DITERs?

 

http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsusmc-flies-first-bru-70a-rack-equipped-av-8b-harrier-against-is-4525993

http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.NAVAIRNewsStory&id=5852

[Rammit]

Will it be center line mountable? From what I was able to find when I went searching I found that they could be mounted on a BRU-36 rack in the center.

 

http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.PrintNewsStory&id=4751

 

While it is a B+ model, this does appear to have the Litening on the centre line

 

[Tirak]

While it is a B+ model, this does appear to have the Litening on the centre line

 

I'm aware it can and is done on the II+ model Harriers, thus the link. My question is about the NA model harriers.

[Vampyre]

I'm aware it can and is done on the II+ model Harriers, thus the link. My question is about the NA model harriers.

 

The centerline mounting can be used on the AV-8B(NA) post 2007 ish. Evidently it was tested at VX-9 while I was there but all I remember were the F/A-18C/D's doing the Litening testing. Heres a pic of a VMA-214 bird carrying one centerline.

 

 

EDIT: The other pod is the ALQ-231 Intrepid Tiger pod

Edited June 20, 2016 by Vampyre