VKB T-Rudder Pedals - Review

Bearfoot · July 13, 2016

Do have have issues with planting the heels or the balls of your feet comfortably? Just wondering...

If the bars were just an inch or so longer, I would be OK.

I have a desk setup, not a fancy gaming chair, so am probably sitting more upright than you. Keeping even mostly just the ball of each of my feet on the bar and the rest of the feet off, I have to have my legs positioned such that my knees are more less directly upward. My natural stance is actually more splayed, with my legs further apart and knees (a little) angled off to the side. Sitting for long periods of time with just the balls of my feet on the bars and the rest off with my legs somewhat rigidly in a (for me) less than natural position is not appealing.

No complaints whatsoever about ANY other aspect of the unit -- definitely can feel the improved precision, by a huge amount, on both helos and ww2 birds, and its build quality and finish is admirable.

Kornskydiver · July 14, 2016

No, I absolutely love mine and find them extremely comfortable with my obutto

Kornskydiver · July 14, 2016

If the bars were just an inch or so longer, I would be OK.

I have a desk setup, not a fancy gaming chair, so am probably sitting more upright than you. Keeping even mostly just the ball of each of my feet on the bar and the rest of the feet off, I have to have my legs positioned such that my knees are more less directly upward. My natural stance is actually more splayed, with my legs further apart and knees (a little) angled off to the side. Sitting for long periods of time with just the balls of my feet on the bars and the rest off with my legs somewhat rigidly in a (for me) less than natural position is not appealing.

No complaints whatsoever about ANY other aspect of the unit -- definitely can feel the improved precision, by a huge amount, on both helos and ww2 birds, and its build quality and finish is admirable.

Will you be going back to the saitek? :/

it should be a pretty straightforward to mod the pedals to make them wider and or longer. The precision on these like you said is amazing and based on some reviews I have seen are on par with mfg's.

mattebubben · July 14, 2016

Interesting. I just got these last week and I found them too narrow.

Precision and build quality is amazing.

But just could not get myself in a comfortable position using them. Which is odd, because they are the same width as Saiteks. But no matter how hard I tried, I just could not get used to the feet position. Finally gave up, and tried to return it, but no avail: apparently Stratojet (US distributor) has a no return policy.

Will be listing them on ebay in a couple of days. :(

So if someone is looking for a mint-condition set of these at a discount, your lucky day is coming up ...

Well if i ware to operate them with my full feet on the pedals they might be narrow.

But the way i use them is i basically just have the two innermost toes on each foot resting as far out on the pedals as possible.

That for me gives me both a comfortable position as well as very good sensitivity/input.

So i place my heels infront of the heel rests and then the 2 first toes on each foot on the tips of the pedal bar and thats what works for me.

And also it should not be impossible to perhaps extend the Pedal bars if you want them wider.

(or to replace them with something longer)

After all they are just metal Bars/Tubes.

Edited July 14, 2016 by mattebubben

Bearfoot · July 14, 2016

Will you be going back to the saitek? :/

Unfortunately, it seems so, for the time being, until I can afford another option ...

it should be a pretty straightforward to mod the pedals to make them wider and or longer. The precision on these like you said is amazing and based on some reviews I have seen are on par with mfg's.

Yes, but why sink money into something that I am not 100% satisified with? I have just listed these pedals on sale for ebay for a fixed price of $200. So, hopefully I will recover enough money to make a decent head start toward pedals that will suit me, and maybe somebody else will be happy with an essentially new set of pedals at 80% of cost ....

[Are we allowed to post links to an ebay sales page? Either here or the in the "For Sale" forum?]

Edited July 14, 2016 by Bearfoot

Sokol1_br · July 26, 2016

Video showing how flip the CAM and increase spring tension in VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV

[ame]

[/ame]

Tip - Use a cloth as base when put the pedal upside down, to prevent scratches in upper surface.

ChrisIhao · July 26, 2016

Hmm. Never laid my hands on any VBK hardware, but if I ever want to replace my CH kit, I will seriously consider them. However, I dont like the idea of getting pedals that doesnt slide back and forth, like real pedals. I find its no problem to use them with an office chair (simply get lockable wheels), and I dont want to lose the immersion I get from watching the pedals move exactly like my feet, like my CH ones do. Just my two cents.

SVgamer72 · July 27, 2016

Hmm. Never laid my hands on any VBK hardware, but if I ever want to replace my CH kit, I will seriously consider them. However, I dont like the idea of getting pedals that doesnt slide back and forth, like real pedals. I find its no problem to use them with an office chair (simply get lockable wheels), and I dont want to lose the immersion I get from watching the pedals move exactly like my feet, like my CH ones do. Just my two cents.

I got my set of MKIVs last night to replace my CH Pro pedals. (I posted a review on reddit if you are interested. (

)

I had the same concern as you with regards to how the pedals move. When using them your heels are planted on the floor, and the motion feels like you are pressing forward with the ball of your foot more than up and down. It isn't the same as extending and retracting your legs like with the CH pedals, but it isn't an up and down stomping motion either. I sit in an office chair, and I barely noticed the change in motion after more than 10 years using CH pedals.

It looks like it would be pretty easy to mount the VKB pedals at an angle and adjust/extend the control rods to create a more realistic motion for your legs. I don't feel the need to go that route myself, but I don't think it would be very hard to tweak things to your liking.

Just my .02$

Bearfoot · July 27, 2016

I dont want to lose the immersion I get from watching the pedals move exactly like my feet

I guess you don't fly helicopters then, :) ... the motion of the VKB pedals is exactly like the Huey. And other Western helicopters. The Russian ones seem to swivel instead.

rrohde · July 27, 2016

I got my set of MKIVs last night to replace my CH Pro pedals. (I posted a review on reddit if you are interested. (

)

I had the same concern as you with regards to how the pedals move. When using them your heels are planted on the floor, and the motion feels like you are pressing forward with the ball of your foot more than up and down. It isn't the same as extending and retracting your legs like with the CH pedals, but it isn't an up and down stomping motion either. I sit in an office chair, and I barely noticed the change in motion after more than 10 years using CH pedals.

It looks like it would be pretty easy to mount the VKB pedals at an angle and adjust/extend the control rods to create a more realistic motion for your legs. I don't feel the need to go that route myself, but I don't think it would be very hard to tweak things to your liking.

Just my .02$

I agree. The motion is just like pressing the pedals down in your car, with your heels staying in place.

My goal is to remove the T-Rudder's heel pads with their "arms" and mount them onto my Obutto's pedal mount, and, as you suggested, extend the connector struts a bit to allow for a larger pedal movement.

Right now, the way they sit in my Obutto Ozone works really well, but mounting them into position might be even better. :)

ChrisIhao · July 28, 2016

Just my .02$

Ok. Thanks for your input. Will keep this in mind.

I guess you don't fly helicopters then, :) ... the motion of the VKB pedals is exactly like the Huey. And other Western helicopters. The Russian ones seem to swivel instead.

Hehe. I didnt actually know that western heli pedals works that way. Have mostly been flying the ka-50 so far, even if I have owned the Huey module for years now.

rrohde · July 28, 2016

(I posted a review on reddit if you are interested. (

)

Very nice review, btw! Thanks for sharing. :thumbup:

rrohde · August 9, 2016

Just a few photos for those of you maybe thinking that the VKB T-Rudders are too narrow to be comfy: here's my sitting position with a) the rudders moved to the back of my Obuto Ozone's pedal area, and b) closer towards me.They're very comfy and just right for a cockpit like the Obutto Ozone.

Both positions (front or back) work really well for me, with the limiting factor only being the Obutto's tubing itself getting in the way. Hope this is useful... :thumbup:

Sokol1_br · August 9, 2016

If someone need know:

20mb image hosting

Bourrinopathe · August 10, 2016

Thanks for the pictures rrohde, I'm pretty sure that will help people who are wondering about how it could fit their installation.

Just for another idea, here's a potato-shot-express from my side-stick user/desk rig:

Also super comfy.

@Sokol: that's some serious angle accuracy ;) Do you know if the MkII and MkIII have the same angle deflection?

rrohde · August 10, 2016

@Bourrinopathe - banana for size? :)

Bourrinopathe · August 11, 2016

(*for scale*) ;)

Only the best of internet science :thumbup:

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bourrinopathe

WildBillKelsoe · September 6, 2016

Can you post bf109 or uh1 control video under vkb pedals? Tempted...

Sent from my SM-T231 using Tapatalk

Sokol1_br · September 6, 2016

In this video I do basic taxi in TF-P51D and Bf 109 K-4 using T-Rudder and "differential brakes" in buttons "pressed" by rudder axis - A2B function in VKB Config Software.

Latter T-Link software add ability to emulate brake axis in joystick button, and differential brake with rudder pedal.

I think that if one don't want do "cross country", "rally" or "Japanese drift" with planes this brake system is satisfactory. ;)

Edited September 6, 2016 by Sokol1_br

Scooternutz · October 17, 2016

I just got my MkIVs and I love them already. I am having a hard time figuring out the toe brake solution. I have followed some things but they are for TinyBox not BlackBox. Any help would be great! Thanks.

JLX · October 17, 2016

I just got my MkIVs and I love them already. I am having a hard time figuring out the toe brake solution. I have followed some things but they are for TinyBox not BlackBox. Any help would be great! Thanks.

I've had mine for a few weeks now and they are fantastic! Not only are they smooth and precise, but they are also very compact and silent. While expensive, they're extremely well built and the vertical movement is perfect for us desk jockeys without a sim pit.

I fly helicopters 98% of the time to which they are particularly well suited.

For toe brakes, I have programmed my CH Throttle to add two virtual slider axis (for the toe brakes) to my controller. I activate these with the thumb-joystick, when I pull back they apply the toe brakes evenly between left and right. When I push the stick forward, and slide it left or right, it applies differential braking for planes without nose-wheel steering.

If you happen to be using a CH HOTAS and are comfortable using the CH Control Manager, I've included just the toe brake portion of my script below. You'll need to assign CMS.A1 and CMS.A2 to Slider 0 and Slider 1 on the CMS Controls tab and then (when running the HOTAS in mapped mode) you'll see the extra two sliders appear in DCS and you can assign these new axis to the toe brakes. The regular thumbstick axis still behave as usual so you can still use them for slewing/etc.

If you don't use CH Products, I'm guessing that you can do something similar with TARGET or whatever Saitek/etc. uses.

Hpoe that helps.

//
// Make Thumbstick into Toe Brakes:
// AFT = Even Brakes
// FWD = Differential Brakes
//

%define Midpoint           128
%define UpDownDeadzone      16  // tweaked for the play in my particular stick
%define FwdAftDeadzone      12  // adjust as needed.

%define IsAft  [JS2.A1 < (Midpoint - FwdAftDeadzone)]
%define IsFwd  [JS2.A1 > (Midpoint + FwdAftDeadzone)]
%define IsUp   [JS2.A2 < (Midpoint - UpDownDeadzone)]
%define IsDown [JS2.A2 > (Midpoint + UpDownDeadzone)]

%define AmtAft  ((128-JS2.A1)*2)
%define AmtFwd  ((JS2.A1-128)*2)
%define AmtUp   ((128-JS2.A2)*2)
%define AmtDown ((JS2.A2-128)*2)

%define LeftBrake  CMS.A1
%define RightBrake CMS.A2

If (IsAft) Then
 // Brake Evenly
 LeftBrake  = AmtAft;
 RightBrake = AmtAft;

Else

 If (IsFwd) Then
   If (IsUp) Then
     // Reduce Left Brake
     LeftBrake  = AmtFwd;
     RightBrake = AmtFwd - AmtUp;

   Else
     If (IsDown) Then
       // Reduce Right Brake
       LeftBrake  = AmtFwd - AmtDown;
       RightBrake = AmtFwd;

     Else
       // Brake Evenly
       LeftBrake  = AmtFwd;
       RightBrake = AmtFwd;

     EndIf
   EndIf
   
 Else
   // Release Brakes
   LeftBrake  = 0;
   RightBrake = 0;

 EndIf

EndIf

Scooternutz · October 17, 2016

Thanks but I don't know about script editing for my Warthog. I just want to get the brakes to work. I have set all the stuff in the VKBdvc program. Doesn't even work on the test window on the VKB program.

Sokol1_br · October 17, 2016

I just got my MkIVs and I love them already. I am having a hard time figuring out the toe brake solution. I have followed some things but they are for TinyBox not BlackBox. Any help would be great! Thanks.

First, take in mind that is impossible "toe brakes" with a one axis rudder pedal.

The usage of this term is VKB propaganda mistake.

What is possible is "differential brake", brake and move rudder for brake only right or left wheel.

In the end the effect is the same of use "toe brakes": brake one or other wheel, but done in different way.

What T-link, the software that allow this differential brakes, does is similar to this script above, create 2 virtual sliders, controlled by joy/throttle button, when pressed this button the sliders brake both wheels, if move rudder for side will brake only the wheel in this side.

If I remember correctly VKB say that actual version of T-Link, that work for T-Rudder Mk.III don't work for T-Rudder Mk.IV due the new controller Black Box, a new version is WiP.

In the link for ATAG forum previous posted there a how to for set this 2 virtual axis in VKB Config Software without need T-Link, or use Axis2Button function, that can be used until this new version of T.Link is released.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Sokol1_br

Scooternutz · October 17, 2016

First, take in mind that is impossible "toe brakes" with a one axis rudder pedal.
The usage of this term is VKB propaganda mistake.

What is possible is "differential brake", brake and move rudder for brake only right or left wheel.

In the end the effect is the same of use "toe brakes": brake one or other wheel, but done in different way.

What T-link, the software that allow this differential brakes, does is similar to this script above, create 2 virtual sliders, controlled by joy/throttle button, when pressed this button the sliders brake both wheels, if move rudder for side will brake only the wheel in this side.

If I remember correctly VKB say that actual version of T-Link, that work for T-Rudder Mk.III don't work for T-Rudder Mk.IV due the new controller Black Box, a new version is WiP.

In the link for ATAG forum previous posted there a how to for set this 2 virtual axis in VKB Config Software without need T-Link, or use Axis2Button function, that can be used until this new version of T.Link is released.

Oh yes, I understand about the rudder braking. I use it in the Mig-21, L-39. I will try to work with the 2 virtual axis. Something is very strange with the axis software. It picks up the Black Box but does not show the axis as functional. They rudder axis works in DCS and the 3 buttons are in the settings for the controller but just don't work in DCS. I want to use my paddle switch for rudder braking. I will keep trying. Thank you!

Sokol1_br · October 19, 2016

Scoodernutz

Take a look at this config in VKB config Software - done by VictorUS, VKB guru:

https://yadi.sk/d/P6oPMr1zxBQMA

With this when the rudder is moved for left will press a button, when moved for right another. Both after ~95% of movement, or full rudder.

In resume, the rudder axis is divided in several bands and buttons assigned in first and last band.

Assign this buttons for brakes in games.

This allow use rudder on takeoff if need, without brake, and brake one or other wheel for taxi maneuver.

Has a little inconvenient, when assign rudder axis in games controls GUI the button will be registered too, so in DCS select axis by name, in other games edit the control files removing the button reference.

No big issue since will do this once.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Sokol1_br

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