Oculus Rift vs HTC Vive

[_Acoustic_]

Interesting read regarding one eye and seeing in 3D:

 

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/archive/2013/title,228669,en.php

[hansangb]

Yeah, if nothing else, technology like HMDs are completely rewriting how much more plastic the brain is. Just two years ago, McGill university study found that Strabismus and amblyopia can be cured in adults. Prior to that, the mainstream thinking was that it had to be caught and cured by age four. So these are exciting times.

[TomOnSteam]

 

Very interesting.

So the Vive might be better for flying with night vision goggles on, the CV1 better for close air support and helicopters, and the DK2 for aircraft without a HUD so you can see the instruments with a glance of the eyeballs instead of a head movement?

[saunder]

I think regarding having only one eye and 3D for whoever it might be if it gave them much better quality then its a bonus.

 

I ordered the Oculus Rift for several reasons. One reason was what do we know about the Vive, very little will it be a winner, who knows, maybe, maybe not how much testing as it had we don't know. The Oculus how much testing as it had plenty there are thousands of DK2s out there. Will it have a better FOV than it does now, yes the lenses are now shaped to take that into account. Will it have a better resolution yes it will. I can read the instruments in the cockpit of the Bf109 with the DK2 so with better resolution it must be a good experience. The DK2 I found to be very comfortable so the CV1 looks more than promising.

 

I have been reading some of the forums regarding VR and there will always be those that are just not interested those that fall in love with it. I read a few days ago someone commented that its not worth bothering with for another 5yrs it will take that long to sort all the problems out, but they have ironed out most the problems. One thing I will say to anyone that as not tried it yet be prepared because if you do you will have to buy one or you won't bother flying, I think its that good!

 

Regarding performance the game ready drivers that are available now from Nvidia will allow sli they are ready it now just needs the game developers to do their bit and I am led believe that it is not a major job (Say he who knows nothing about computer programming) I have one GTX980 fitted and DCS performs well with it its a great experience and it is stable I don't over clock my system so there is more to be had from it.

 

So for me its the Oculus just on what we know.

Edited January 15, 2016 by saunder

[saunder]

There maybe a DK2 going free soon because if I can't get my signature to go smaller then I am going to launch my computer out of the window so I wont need it is driving me to distraction.. I have tried everything!

[Chief1942]

Love it!

 

You guys keep at it. You have no idea just how much information you provide for those of us who are just now learning how to program our HOTAS:joystick: Currently, as regards VR I am one of those wait and see types. I am definitely interested in the technology and feel certain it is a game changer for sim flying. The debate going on as regards Rift vs Vive is music to my ears because in that whole discussion, you folks that are really on top of this type of stuff, give me more information as regards the current state of the technology than I could ever get AND UNDERSTAND:music_whistling: As to costs, pishaw, I have spent enough to buy a house on flight sims and the associated equipment over all the years I've been at it. My graphics card alone was $1K. So you folks keep us informed as you get on with this tech, I for one appreciate it.:thumbup:

[saunder]

I think the decision will be made by many on what genre they tend to be interested in it sounds like the Vive would probably suit the first person shooter type of game. I am predominately a flight sim enthusiast with a bit of car sim thrown in so leaping around the room would not really be my thing.

 

For me the main issues are image and performance how comfortable are they and reliability. I was reading about several up and coming headsets which I believe are being developed in China at half the price but does half the price mean poor manufacturing quality.

 

I think if I did not have the DK2 I would have waited but I could not fly without that total immersion. I mean lets face it the vive and the Oculus are going to be close on spec and it will come down to the individual their requirements and have they got the finances available to buy it.

[S3NTRY11]

If I were purely using it for swimming, I'd go completely on price. The features are so similar, as it relates to simulation uses, as to be largely negligible.

For what it's worth, I think simming (particularly car) is the sweet spot for gen1 VR - all the other uses are a little gimmicky at the moment, in my opinion, not to say there won't be some diamonds in the rough.

 

But if you want full flexibility in your VR at any cost, the Vive will be the way to go for gen1.

[Berniyh]

I'm at a cafe and just read this astute observation.

It's actually interesting to look out at the street, close one eye for a bit to see the world in 2D, then open both eyes for the full 3D.

It's like life in DCS before and after the Rift.

I'm always astonished by the fact how few people actually know/realize this.

 

I was in the cinema a few days ago, Star Wars in 3D. And during the intro, a girl behind me was. "What? I can only see 3D with two eyes?"

Don't know if she figured that out on her own or someone hinted it to her. But she surely wasn't young and I always thought that this is a fact that most people figure out as youths quite early.

Maybe I'm wrong here, though.

Also loved Rangis beer comment. Am thinking of strapping a camelback to my ejection seat with a drinking tube!

Yeah. :D

 

Interesting read regarding one eye and seeing in 3D:

 

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/archive/2013/title,228669,en.php

The human brain is amazingly good at compensating for disabilities; thankfully for those who are affected.

 

E.g. if you move and turn your head (even tiny proportions), you can get a much better idea about the geometry and layout of the world you see, even with one eye.

I also think that's how our brain distinguishes between front and rear sounds, because our head is always moving a bit (from a steady stereo layout of the ears, this would be impossible as well to decide if a sound came from i.e. 60° right front or right rear).

 

I could even imagine that with a bit of training the brain could create an illusion which is close to 3D with only one eye.

However, this will never be even close to a proper stereoscopic 3D experience.

 

In the end, though it doesn't really matter. It's not like someone decides to only have one eye in the future. And those who were unlucky to be in that situation could certainly still benefit from the VR experience, because in the end it's still VR, be it 3D or not.

And in my opinion that is actually the more important part, the VR experience. 3D is nice to have, but for computer games, I don't really deem it necessary.

And I do say that with having played games with shutter glasses 15 years ago, which (for certain games) gave a pretty damn good 3D effect (i.e. Unreal Tournament; would you like falling down 50m? :D).

 

However, for people with only one eye, I would even more advice to try the device before buying, to see if they can use it properly and if it is actually worth for them.

 

I myself will buy a VR device at some point, but I'm not in a hurry and will wait until I can try one (or hopefully both the Rift and the Vive) and I will wait for proper reviews of the stuff.

 

I'm also not worried about the price too much. I didn't expect a proper VR set to be available at less than 1000€, so anything below is good enough for me.

And I'm not worried too much about the hardware requirements. I own a Radeon 280X and I can play Assetto Corsa at 5760x1200 with the framerate dropping below 30 or 40 fps only in very few situations.

DCS of course is more demanding, but I think it will be possible to power the resolution of the Rift and Vive.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Berniyh

[saunder]

There is another aspect to this and that is the Software developer because if they do not get their bit right then you can have the best headset that's available and the experience will be poor.

 

I am basically a P3D and DCS user and that's because they are the only flightsim with VR support and I hope that the likes of Battle of Stalingrad are working on VR because I think they will get left behind. The older flightsims that will probably never have support because development as finished and will eventually disappear, unless Steam integrates into all its games which then means for those guys that still use the older games then the Vive is the way to go..

 

Another thing the first generation headsets will soon be replaced with the next generation so is it worth spending more than you have to at this moment in time.

[Chivas]

Team Fusion will be looking at the possibility of implementing VR in COD. Don't hold your breath however, they already have their hands full trying to finish Version 5.0 this summer, strongly rumoured to be the Med. Its just good to know that they are interested enough to look into the the future of flight sims.

 

If your primarily a flight simmer don't fooled by those that suggest HTC Vive is the better experience. It might well be in the end, but by far most of the reviewers were influenced by the Vive demos which focused more on movement, which is an immersion multiplier. This is not a major feature for flight simmers.

 

The Rift appears to have slightly better displays, optic lenses, possible larger sweetspot that allows some eye movement without having to move our heads, and FOV, which are features far more important to flight simmers. Especially since flight sims require the best possible display/optic features, to be useful at all until higher resolutions are possible.

 

Just be aware, of which features best suit your interests. I don't care which unit is better, and will end up with the one that works best for my needs, which is currently in flight sims. Luckily I should receive the CV1 in March, and will sell Rift if the Vive ends up being better, even if its more expensive. If not I can buy the Rift VR Touch inputs later if I see any interesting content that would require that type of input. Not to mention my strong suspicions that the Vive will be delayed again.

[Bisch]

If there will be a boxing game for the vive I'll go for it ^^

 

 

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[saunder]

I have already ordered my CV1 based on my experience with the DK2 and it as everything I need for Flight simulation its been well tested and seems reliable there seems to be few software problems.

 

I think as far as technology getting better it is already at a very high standard the head tracking is excellent the performance is reasonable and with the higher resolution screens the image will look pretty damned good. I have been using the DK2 for 18 months and would not fly without it.

[Chivas]

I'm way too old to wait for the next generation of VR, which is likely to be a couple of years down the road. VR headsets are very unlikely to have a one year turn around. Palmer suggested that new models will take longer than smartphones, and shorter than consoles. It will depend on what breakthroughs are made in the R&D department.

[pagadi-zaiet]

DCS is in the process of implementing support for the Rift and Vive.

 

"No word yet how well VR works in DCS for either unit"

 

...you kidding right?...I am on Oculus DK2 for approx. one year ...and it works very well!

[Chivas]

DCS is in the process of implementing support for the Rift and Vive.

 

"No word yet how well VR works in DCS for either unit"

 

...you kidding right?...I am on Oculus DK2 for approx. one year ...and it works very well!

 

No, I'm not kidding, I was referring to newer versions of the Rift and Vive. I own the DK2 and its just ok, no where near good enough for a consumer version, and it was never intended to be a consumer version. There are still huge questions if the quality of these headsets are good enough for flight sims, and how well DCS has optimized their software for the Rift and Vive, and which one they prefer to use.

[Chivas]

Maybe Oculus will take longer to roll out next gen tech, but others won't.

 

To each his own, but I'm not buying over priced early tech that is not good enough just because it is first. Just like I wouldn't buy the first 4K tv released.

 

Good luck with that, Vive and Oculus haven't even released their first ones. But I understand completely why you'd want to wait, but a yearly turn around is highly unlikely from any of the VR devs.

[Chivas]

There will be cheaper and better coming annually. First tech is always worst tech.

 

Its relatively obvious that VR hardware will get better and cheaper, but devs won't be renewing their hardware annually. I'll enjoy what the first versions of VR bring to the table, and upgrade to better hardware when it comes, if I'm still here. :)

[wasyl00]

I dont see a problem with buying first gen products. They are quite expensive but hey this is the price of being on the bleeding edge of tech nowadays.

 

Also if you look at the second hand market for DK2 I can't see that much drop in price over time so I believe I will still get a decent resale price when I decide to go gen 2. There still should be good demand for first generation units as the mainstream PC market will still be catching up.

[hansangb]

But there's opportunity cost, Icarus. You can *always* count on cheaper/better technology every year. Moore's law marches on. So one could wait forever for the next big thing. So it's just a matter of when you want to jump on the train. Some (like me) don't mind jumping on early and enjoying it. Others like to jump on later.

[saunder]

I think there will always be the different camps when it comes to which developer as is with everything I backed the Oculus camp mainly on experience and what I know. I get a fantastic experience from the DK2 so with what we know of the CV1 I can't lose and as for the price when you look at it and compare it with lets say the next generation of Nvidia graphics card it is probably about the same price. The software development I can't see there being such a big change that it will need any major changes that is the idea of having the DK2 out on the open market.

 

I think Valve\HTC have kept their cards to close to their chest we can only speculate what they might have to offer and will not know for some time. I will not get my Oculus in the first wave my due deliver date will be June and I am happy with that I wanted to give it some thought before I jumped.

 

One major issue that I mentioned before is that much of the experience will also come down to the game developers on how they use what they have been given. I have said for many years that I don't think they get the best out of the sound aspects of gaming they now have the chance to manipulate that side of gaming and the Oculus developers said when they first announced the 3D sound addition is that it will be up the games developers to use it.

[7rooper]

If you need a camera to know where your beer is, you need more practice.

 

:lol:

[TomOnSteam]

First tech = worst tech. There will be new stuff every year and will be cheaper too.

 

Sure, but you can count the 2nd and 3rd generation products being quite similar, as they will want to keep compatibility between the software and previous generation devices. They aren't going to be adding drastically new features that might divide up a fairly small market even further. You might see improvements, but no revolutions for at least 3 years so that the software can catch up and flourish.

 

Also if we are to believe Palmer Lucky, he suggests that the hardware is being sold near cost price for the reason of encouraging early and wide adoption(to create a cycle of more developers creating more software, for more customers and so on). So there is a very good chance that while there will be some tweaks and improvements, newer headsets might not be any cheaper. Perhaps even costing more as they look to recover the costs of the first generation. If the experience is good enough, people will find a pay to pay for it.

Edited January 17, 2016 by TomOnSteam

[hansangb]

I doubt later devices will cost more (that's never happened with electronics), but I'm sure there will be incremental upgrades. Both in software and hardware. I just need CV1 to be a little better so I can read the captions on the screen and look a the gauges w/o leaning in too much. Oh, and judder free FPS. Not asking too much, am I? Just yesterday, I was practicing dropping Mk82s, and I figured, what the hell, after I dropped, I inverted and looked up. What a feeling - tracking the bombs by tilting your head up and back while maintaining the orientation of plane. Something impossible to do with TrackIR. Love it!! Can't wait for March/April!

[S3NTRY11]

Vive speculated to be $700

 

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/32683/article/steamvr-developer-showcase-may-have-dropped-hint-at-htc-vive-s-price/

Be great for that to be true, but I wouldn't be relying on competition mathematics as those figures can be fairly fluffy.