Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 5

[ApoNOOB]

-snip-

 

Without trying to be hostile, you are actually a Trans pilot, who is actively doing the support stuff? I have talked with a bunch of reds, read the same issue in this very thread. My own side and myself is very unhappy with the current system. Reading that you don't see an issue with the current system leaves me quite baffled.^^

 

Easy hotfix would be to simply raise the amount of fuel carried per crate.

 

For retarded players, sorry I asked in chat specifically not to spawn on Nalchik because of the fuel issue. While making this post the remaining 250fuel from Nalchik disappeared without anyone in a NA slot to show for it.

 

If you don't want any hard feelings towards described lonewolfs/randoms above, maybe disarm the system putting organized players against casuals. :)

[Weltensegler]

Once again explain how IRL attack pilots use zoom? From the several I know personally it amounts to looking out and using the mk1 eyeball not binos. Can you get that thru your thick skull? I can play that game too. By the way you can see fine without zooming at monitor resolution, you just need to a.look harder or b. know where to look.

 

Besides the fact that you can make out stuff IRL that your monitor doesn't consider to be worth a pixel...a human eye actually does kinda zoom.

Little muscles squeeze your eyeball when you focus on something far away and narrow your FOV.

And no you can't see fine without zoom. If no pixel gets rendered it doesnt matter how good your eyes are. Fly a real plane and see how far out you can spot traffic, THAT is what the zoom tries to compensate for.

[104th_Maverick]

The fuel system would be perfect if DCS didn't crash so often.

 

Apart from being annoying, when the server crashes all the aircraft who took off and used fuel previously now all refuel again and use twice the amount.

 

So if we refuel an airfield to 1000, x amount of aircraft takeoff and the fuel goes down to 500.

If 10-20 mins later the server crashes, these same aircraft will takeoff again from that airbase and leave us with 0 fuel at it.

 

 

A compromise needs to be found with the refueling that takes in to account server crashes. If we didn't have guys like Apo hauling fuel after server crashes we couldn't go anywhere.

 

To reiterate.. I think the fuel system is fantastic! A solution needs to be found however as people are starting to get really frustrated at hours of work seemingly wasted because after a crash, everyone rightly, refuels again and departs leaving us with no fuel.

[Sweep]

IMHO, if we had more players, the fuel system would be great. Speaking of players, could we get 61 slots instead of 60? I'm not sure if you guys did this already (haven't noticed... :(), but it would be better for the team balance stuff I think, yeah yeah, one player, whatever! :D

 

ATM, I'd like it removed...But I'm an impatient fighter guy, so... :)

 

Maybe increase the amount of fuel carried by helos? It would make them targets of much higher value (depending on the amount of fuel) and it would make fuel runs more enjoyable (IMO).

 

Thanks!

[Tibet]

We just had some strangeness go down with the FK93 FARP at the last server restart.

 

 

FARP was definitely RED at the 10 min save (was at mission switch as well)... but at server restart it was blue.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Tibet

[Oznerol256]

I would like the refuel system removed or relaxed as well. I think its too harsh in the state it is right now.

[Frostie]

I can't go to work happy unless i've hauled some fuel :D

[104th_Maverick]

Can you guys investigate what is going on with the Host Machine CPU during the last hour of the mission?

 

In the final hour the warping is consistent for everyone, anytime you fire a weapon at someone they just start dancing around the place. I have loads of clips recorded of this happening now.

 

The first hour and a half seem to be fairly warp free depending on the clients connected. But the last hour always warps really badly and its starting to ruin the event for some people.

 

It could be a possible memory leak on the machine or the CPU gradually getting overloaded during the mission. What ever it is it always happens in the last hour of the mission to clients on both sides.

 

Staying alive and getting a kill becomes more a lottery when its like this. I know a lot of people are getting frustrated especially when the guy they had good shots on turns round and kills them.

 

I know 100% the lag has saved my ass on more than one occasion, I don't want this. If someone gets in a position to take me down he should be able too without me warping away from his missile as soon as he fires at me.

I've been lucky on a few occasions now and reversed on to the bandit and killed him, while cool at the time for me... in the long run... I feel dirty!

 

Please can you guys look in to this

 

S!

[Darkwolf]

Small enlargement is decent.

[QuiGon]

I've talk about it yesterday, I'm unable to load the center fuel tank....

 

Ah, yeah, now I remember, but no, I don't have this problem. I can load the center fuel tank just fine. Well, at Kutaisi at least. Haven't flown from Tbilsi in a while.

[gregzagk]

Hey all.

 

REFUEL SYSTEM

The refuel system is the latest feature we added in Blue Flag.

During the stress test session we tried to monitor and select the best values for it.

The goal is to "force" both sides to carefully prepare their strategy so that they will be able to maintain their resources for a 16 days war.

 

Usually the campaign rounds end after ~6 days but with the refuel system a side can easily go the wrong way and lose its advantage.

It's kind like a war of attrition. The choppers became the most important asset during this round.

 

Of course there are 3 important issues:

 

a) Server crashes, as mentioned before, is something that can cause frustration as it can ruin plans etc but it's something we work for since day 1. We have now the server going up automatically after a CTD and reduced as much as possible the crashes that are caused from known triggers. Still working in the backround to improve this.

 

b) Both sides have inexperienced pilots in their rosters. This is something we like and never aimed to have an elite only campaign. Most of the players are trying really hard and you can see that they improve day by day. Of course you will get trolls in events like these and we try to deal with them.

 

c) The number of available chopper pilots is quite low. Again this is not exactly a big problem as we saw many pilots getting chopper modules and trying to support their sides. This should improve both sides performance in the next rounds.

 

So whatever brings more people in the server trying to do their best and coordinate with their side is nice. Of course we may change the values but right now the main goal is achieved.

 

SERVER LAG

The last minutes lag issue is not exactly related by the time but from the actions of the players. Both sides try to make as much as they can during the sessions. This leads to times that a great amount of tranports have been accomlished, along with ejected pilots and destroyed targets.

 

If we decrease time (which has been tested) it can help a bit but will reduce the ability of accomplishing stuff. There is always the possibility that both sides will rush to complete tasks in 2.5 hours so the result will be the same. From what we know DCS can't handle many respawns and data and that is why we restart every 3 hours.

 

Of course we will try to improve it in the next round.

 

SUPPORT

 

We know we have been a bit slower than before in answering in the forums (both here and buddyspike) and in providing support such as side changes/registrations/teamspeak etc.

 

Apologies but we monitor DCS chat, forums and teamspeak and usually work in the backround. The amount of work for the current round, new features for the next rounds along with some real life issues can cause a bit of delay. Please don't stop to provide feedback as we check them quite often even without answering.

 

Yesterday we reached 2000 unique ID's connected in the server during round 5. Would like to thank you all again for your support! 4 more days to win this round!

 

Keep it up!

 

Greg

Edited February 24, 2016 by gregzagk

[atonium83]

Ah, yeah, now I remember, but no, I don't have this problem. I can load the center fuel tank just fine. Well, at Kutaisi at least. Haven't flown from Tbilsi in a while.

 

This bug occur in all airports for me, not only Kutaisi.... So I think that I'm the only one 'cause the bug occur only in the Blue FLag server...

[Foka1]

Without trying to be hostile, you are actually a Trans pilot, who is actively doing the support stuff? I have talked with a bunch of reds, read the same issue in this very thread. My own side and myself is very unhappy with the current system. Reading that you don't see an issue with the current system leaves me quite baffled.^^

 

Easy hotfix would be to simply raise the amount of fuel carried per crate.

 

For retarded players, sorry I asked in chat specifically not to spawn on Nalchik because of the fuel issue. While making this post the remaining 250fuel from Nalchik disappeared without anyone in a NA slot to show for it.

 

If you don't want any hard feelings towards described lonewolfs/randoms above, maybe disarm the system putting organized players against casuals. :)

 

It doesn't matter what I do on this server, since you are not asnwering on my question either ;). I tried to use logic. I think your post was rather offensive and agressive towards admins and "RETARD" pilots :) You just want things, but admins need to think how to implement them, who will decide who is retard and who is not before allow them connect to the server? It is not work for creators of Blue Flag aswell I'm sure, and they too mustn't WORK this server. They are trying their best, I just think we need to be more humble and ask for changes not demand them...

 

You can look at my post about FUEL system from two days ago aswell. Look at the RED side actually and distance between their airfields, it is twice more than between any initial BLUE airfileds. Imagine how it was at the start of the round...

 

But yeah this round work like it is, all our comments will be reviewed I hope and some new changes will be implemented in next round.

[QuiGon]

About the refuel thing: I'm usally flying CAP (because that usally seems the most needed asset) but if fuel (or any other kind of transport or ground attack) is in special need, then just call it out (not just in TS, but also in the ingame chat which is not channel dependent) and I (and maybe others as well) will happilly jump into the Huey (or the A-10) to help out. But when I ask it's usally CAP that is requested.

 

Yes, I do like brackets :D

[NaCH]

Hey all.

 

REFUEL SYSTEM

The refuel system is the latest feature we added in Blue Flag.

During the stress test session we tried to monitor and select the best values for it.

The goal is to "force" both sides to carefully prepare their strategy so that they will be able to maintain their resources for a 16 days war.

 

Usually the campaign rounds end after ~6 days but with the refuel system a side can easily go the wrong way and lose its advantage.

It's kind like a war of attrition. The choppers became the most important asset during this round.

 

Of course there are 3 important issues:

 

a) Server crashes, as mentioned before, is something that can cause frustration as it can ruin plans etc but it's something we work for since day 1. We have now the server going up automatically after a CTD and reduced as much as possible the crashes that are caused from known triggers. Still working in the backround to improve this.

 

b) Both sides have inexperienced pilots in their rosters. This is something we like and never aimed to have an elite only campaign. Most of the players are trying really hard and you can see that they improve day by day. Of course you will get trolls in events like these and we try to deal with them.

 

c) The number of available chopper pilots is quite low. Again this is not exactly a big problem as we saw many pilots getting chopper modules and trying to support their sides. This should improve both sides performance in the next rounds.

 

So whatever brings more people in the server trying to do their best and coordinate with their side is nice. Of course we may change the values but right now the main goal is achieved.

 

SERVER LAG

The last minutes lag issue is not exactly related by the time but from the actions of the players. Both sides try to make as much as they can during the sessions. This leads to times that a great amount of tranports have been accomlished, along with ejected pilots and destroyed targets.

 

If we decrease time (which has been tested) it can help a bit but will reduce the ability of accomplishing stuff. There is always the possibility that both sides will rush to complete tasks in 2.5 hours so the result will be the same. From what we know DCS can't handle many respawns and data and that is why we restart every 3 hours.

 

Of course we will try to improve it in the next round.

 

SUPPORT

 

We know we have been a bit slower than before in answering in the forums (both here and buddyspike) and in providing support such as side changes/registrations/teamspeak etc.

 

Apologies but we monitor DCS chat, forums and teamspeak and usually work in the backround. The amount of work for the current round, new features for the next rounds along with some real life issues can cause a bit of delay. Please don't stop to provide feedback as we check them quite often even without answering.

 

Yesterday we reached 2000 unique ID's connected in the server during round 5. Would like to thank you all again for your support! 4 more days to win this round!

 

Keep it up!

 

Greg

 

 

Awesome job guys and thanks for the effort for putting this up!

[Oznerol256]

I have noticed that the refuel/repair crates do not actually repair the airfield. They only refuel. Is that intended behaviour?

[sirscorpion]

Hey all.

 

REFUEL SYSTEM

The refuel system is the latest feature we added in Blue Flag.

During the stress test session we tried to monitor and select the best values for it.

The goal is to "force" both sides to carefully prepare their strategy so that they will be able to maintain their resources for a 16 days war.

 

Issue with this is the crashing, you can get a full squadron to take off and then the server crashes, or players crash and lag out. it needs to be x2 what it is or simply half the use per spwan.

 

 

a) Server crashes, as mentioned before, is something that can cause frustration as it can ruin plans etc but it's something we work for since day 1. We have now the server going up automatically after a CTD and reduced as much as possible the crashes that are caused from known triggers. Still working in the backround to improve this.

 

The major issue to what i can see, is that the server has a bad internet connection, and geo location. to run a monster mission like this the server needs to be in a major internet hub, Germany or UK"London" or NY" for the west side of the world, at least a few gigabit connection on a server blade in a data center. The game IIRC uses client to client so a max ping of 300 is critical to server stability.

 

 

Lives are also an issue with crashing when the aircraft is in the air, the limited lives is an issue and needs to be x2 waht it is now, or at least 6 per 6 hours. while i think 4 is great for ideal conditions, the server is far from stable to support that. people lose at least 2 for every 4 for D/C. AKA the first 2 are important for risk taking in a session.

 

Thank you and keep up the great work.

[0xDEADBEEF]

Server has crashed once again 5 minutes into the game and is frozen at the same servertime (visible, but not joinable)

[QuiGon]

I hope we get dedicated servers soon.

[0xDEADBEEF]

I hope we get dedicated servers soon.

 

Me too. With a proper prediction code and and better packet-loss handling the MP experience should skyrocket. Unfortunately the requirements of a flight-sim netcode are a bit more complicated than "the ordinary fps netcode", so I have a good understanding why it takes a while (I spent 5 years coding games before my twenties, also did a lot of research on netcode implementations, but this was more than 10 years ago)

[NaCH]

Issue with this is the crashing, you can get a full squadron to take off and then the server crashes, or players crash and lag out. it needs to be x2 what it is or simply half the use per spwan.

 

This is a problem... a Squadron.. needs to be aware that they need to move fuel too not only get into a plane and have fun.

 

 

 

The major issue to what i can see, is that the server has a bad internet connection, and geo location. to run a monster mission like this the server needs to be in a major internet hub, Germany or UK"London" or NY" for the west side of the world, at least a few gigabit connection on a server blade in a data center. The game IIRC uses client to client so a max ping of 300 is critical to server stability.

 

Please explain to me why the ping will change the server stability ? Usually this is related with scripts and the amount of thing throw into the mission.

Also if you have any link to ED explanation that ping affects stability I will greatly appreciate.

 

 

 

 

Suggestion I will place is make the crates disapear after X amount of time when they are in FARP or Base. I see crates pile up like crazy on the FARPs and Bases.

 

Another one is limit the CSAR time available.

[0xDEADBEEF]

Please explain to me why the ping will change the server stability ? Usually this is related with scripts and the amount of thing throw into the mission.

Also if you have any link to ED explanation that ping affects stability I will greatly appreciate.

 

Theres two blades on the sword. One side is that DCS is not very good at handling packet loss, and packet loss usually increases with the ping. High ping itself is not the major problem.

 

The scripts itself are very lightweight and optimized, xcom, ciribob and greg did a great job there, unfortunately theres a couple of gliches in the DCS-code that starts bringing up problems with time and playercount. A lot of features have already been taken out to increase stability (like hover-pickup of crates).

 

Keep in mind that there have been major improvements (new 3D engine first and foremost) in DCS which naturally introduce new bugs, and there just wasn't enough time for ED to fix those, and ED is not a 250+ man company like some major gamestudios.

[gregzagk]

The major issue to what i can see, is that the server has a bad internet connection, and geo location. to run a monster mission like this the server needs to be in a major internet hub, Germany or UK"London" or NY" for the west side of the world, at least a few gigabit connection on a server blade in a data center. The game IIRC uses client to client so a max ping of 300 is critical to server stability.

 

 

Lives are also an issue with crashing when the aircraft is in the air, the limited lives is an issue and needs to be x2 waht it is now, or at least 6 per 6 hours. while i think 4 is great for ideal conditions, the server is far from stable to support that. people lose at least 2 for every 4 for D/C. AKA the first 2 are important for risk taking in a session.

 

Thank you and keep up the great work.

 

That is not exactly true as the pings of most of the players are quite good comparing to other servers.

Believe me it's in a quite good data center... :) Ping is the last thing sometimes that can bring lag during a session. Will have to solve other issues first.

 

The lives are set to 4 to include the risk of DCS crashes. Otherwise they would be less as we want to bring the feeling of valuable aircraft.

 

Server is back after an important maintenance in the machine.

 

Greg

[sirscorpion]

@NaCH, on the Fuel side, yes squadrons need to bring in fuel, but still losing 10 aircraft for zero effect is a major and significant fuel run. its simply a compensation till better stability is achieved. one has nothing to do with the other.

 

 

As deadbeef said its packet loss, along with server location. put in the most simply way. each action is a cycle. so for every input u put you send out data. the data goes to the server, then the server sends the data to every one else.

 

If lets say i send out data at 200ms. and some one at 100 and some one at 600, while the server cycle data at 300, then 1 pilot wont be sending data in 1 cycle, so you get a warp. the thing is depending on the net code, that pilot will send old data after the cycle so the server will try and send old data as well. so you get all the other plays warp as well. and it gets worse and worse every cycle. this is without the "full" packet loss.

 

issue is that the DCS has no proper lag compensation, like lets say warthunder or IL2 for example, the more stuff happens in the server the more lost packets or laged ones gut pumped in. other games can disregard old packets, or even compensate for location by prediction and server authorization. Bare in mind this is my general knowledge so i hope some one with more expert with DCS engine elaborates on it.

 

so a short term solution is to put the server on a data center, with a large amount of bandwidth, and speed, and remove high ping players from the server.

[104th_Maverick]

From what we know DCS can't handle many respawns and data and that is why we restart every 3 hours.

 

I dont think its related to aircraft spawns. I've never had this problem in the 104th server and we host 61 clients also.

 

I also want to point out this warping in the last hour happens with 60 people in the server or 30 people in the server, so I would be very surprised if the number of spawns has anything to do with it.

 

The warping is making the event un-playable and starting to take the enjoyment out of it.

 

 

It doesn't just happen every now and again, it happens in every single mission that is ran.

 

I think this event is great and I'm really enjoying it, but the lag really is becoming legendary and is slowly... starting to ruin the event....

 

I can't really take the air to air seriously anymore because its a total lottery if you even kill someone or not now!