Universal Model Visibility Setting Mod

[CHSubZero]

Great explanation and super mod *thumbs up*

[Insitig]

Well there is no image rendered over the model, the model itself changes. You can see this if you try increase max value to something large to make the impostor pop up very early.

 

So what you're trying to say is that when I see someone flying in the distance when the impostors are active, the dimensions of the model of the plane they are flying increase? That sounds like it would create some large issues with texture scaling, flight performance, evasion of missiles and cannon fire, navigation of taxiways and runways, should I go on?

 

No, you are in fact incorrect that the model itself changes. This makes no logical sense whatsoever as this would mean the dimensions of the model itself change; you suggest that a 19 meter long F-15 becomes 50 meters long. :doh:

 

I don't believe you truly believe this and instead, as Why485 has pointed out repeatedly, you simply have the terms mixed up and/or perhaps don't have a great understanding of the English language (which is perfectly acceptable if you are not a native speaker). The impostors are sprites which use the relevant data of the actual model to create a scaled up representation of it that is then placed on top of the actual model for the client rendering the impostor. In this case it may (and likely does for performance reasons) fully replace the actual model as Why485 has said.

 

In-case the nvidia article is not enough for you, here are some other common explanations.

 

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_%28computer_graphics%29#Synonyms

and: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superimpose

[RoflSeal]

This mod is really great and I urge ED to follow on this line of development of the imposter system.

[droopy114]

Anyone with a 4k screen test this mod? For now, impossible to spot something, even with model enlargement activated.....

[boedha68]

superb mod. I can see planes with 4k. Thank you sir!

[droopy114]

superb mod. I can see planes with 4k. Thank you sir!

 

Ok so I will test this.

[SinusoidDelta]

I can see planes with this mod in 4K. Unfortunately the atmosphere is still polluted with light.

[Kuky]

So what you're trying to say is that when I see someone flying in the distance when the impostors are active, the dimensions of the model of the plane they are flying increase? That sounds like it would create some large issues with texture scaling, flight performance, evasion of missiles and cannon fire, navigation of taxiways and runways, should I go on?

 

No, you are in fact incorrect that the model itself changes. This makes no logical sense whatsoever as this would mean the dimensions of the model itself change; you suggest that a 19 meter long F-15 becomes 50 meters long. :doh:

 

I don't believe you truly believe this and instead, as Why485 has pointed out repeatedly, you simply have the terms mixed up and/or perhaps don't have a great understanding of the English language (which is perfectly acceptable if you are not a native speaker). The impostors are sprites which use the relevant data of the actual model to create a scaled up representation of it that is then placed on top of the actual model for the client rendering the impostor. In this case it may (and likely does for performance reasons) fully replace the actual model as Why485 has said.

 

In-case the nvidia article is not enough for you, here are some other common explanations.

 

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_%28computer_graphics%29#Synonyms

and: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superimpose

 

I don't need to see any articles, I have tried the effect using large values and I saw what was happening. You can stop talking now.

[Why485]

Anyone with a 4k screen test this mod? For now, impossible to spot something, even with model enlargement activated.....

 

superb mod. I can see planes with 4k. Thank you sir!

 

I really wish I had a 4k screen to test this on, because I'm not exactly what it looks like. From testing with a baseline res of 1080 versus 1440, I noticed that the scaling gets a little jumpy when it has to scale up. The impostors also get noticeably blurrier if scaled up. They just don't scale up very well in general, but they can scale down perfectly fine.

 

It's one of the things that if I had access to the layer between the impostors.lua and the shaders would be trivially easy to address, but unfortunately that would be in the DCS source code.

 

I only made this mod as a proof of concept of what I'd like to see ED do. The whole thing is kinda hacky because I'm working with what little I have available to tweak. If ED were to fix this themselves, they can do it "right" and prevent the weird little anomolies that sometimes happen with this mod.

[Triangles]

I don't need to see any articles, I have tried the effect using large values and I saw what was happening. You can stop talking now.

 

If you refuse to accept an article published by Nvidia ( https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/10/10/http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems3/gpugems3_ch21.html ) I do not know what else anyone can say for your obtuse way of thinking.

[droopy114]

I really wish I had a 4k screen to test this on, because I'm not exactly what it looks like. From testing with a baseline res of 1080 versus 1440, I noticed that the scaling gets a little jumpy when it has to scale up. The impostors also get noticeably blurrier if scaled up. They just don't scale up very well in general, but they can scale down perfectly fine.

 

It's one of the things that if I had access to the layer between the impostors.lua and the shaders would be trivially easy to address, but unfortunately that would be in the DCS source code.

 

I only made this mod as a proof of concept of what I'd like to see ED do. The whole thing is kinda hacky because I'm working with what little I have available to tweak. If ED were to fix this themselves, they can do it "right" and prevent the weird little anomolies that sometimes happen with this mod.

 

Works great, better with your mod than without, i can spot plane now, thank you for your work...I agree with you, ED should have a look at this, and it mean one thing: players with 1080p and model enlargement set to max are advantaged vs players running a 2k or 4k screen, if i understand correctly how it work....

[CHSubZero]

I deleted the Config folder within your mod because in DCS 1.5.3 EDs using higher values than your mod. Could you please verify your mod when you find some time. Thx

[Why485]

I deleted the Config folder within your mod because in DCS 1.5.3 EDs using higher values than your mod. Could you please verify your mod when you find some time. Thx

 

Nothing's changed about how impostors are drawn. ED just set the values back to values that actually work. The 1.5.2 values were completely broken and made the whole system effectively worthless. You can see impostors again (too easily IMO) now with the new settings. They're a middle ground between 1.5.1's insanely visible sittings and 1.5.0's very conservative and hard to see settings.

 

However, the ED impostors still suffer from all the same problems as they originally did. As I said before, nothing has changed about how they render,they just tweaked the values again. It's appreciated that the system is back to working, but it's still too simplistic and flawed.

 

The mod still works as intended with the original impostors.lua. If you use the much larger impostors.lua from 1.5.3 you'll get very different and unintended results from what this mod intended. Further, all the variables in the shader files are tweaked to get the right view distances for the specific pixel sizes in the mod's impostors.lua.

 

TL;DR: Use the mod's impostor's.lua if you want to keep using the mod. In 1.5.3, ED tweaked the broken values of 1.5.2 so that the impostor system is back to what it was like in 1.5.1, but they didn't fix any of the fundamental problems of the system.

[zaelu]

Quick question

 

With what size of impostors this mod should work best?

 

Thank you.

[Why485]

Quick question

 

With what size of impostors this mod should work best?

 

Thank you.

 

They're all the same. From the OP:

 

All visibility settings are now the same.

For uniformity, and because this is meant to be a universal setting, there is no longer a difference between low/med/high. As long as it’s not off, the system is on and working.

 

One of the points I wanted to make was that this shouldn't be a configurable setting and there should just be an on/off with on being realistic and off being for the diehards who hate being able to see anything out the window. Sort of like Falcon BMS's smart scaling.

[zaelu]

Oh, thanks. I somehow missed that completely wishing it will become ED's view also.

[SinusoidDelta]

Nothing's changed about how impostors are drawn. ED just set the values back to values that actually work. The 1.5.2 values were completely broken and made the whole system effectively worthless. You can see impostors again (too easily IMO) now with the new settings. They're a middle ground between 1.5.1's insanely visible sittings and 1.5.0's very conservative and hard to see settings.

 

However, the ED impostors still suffer from all the same problems as they originally did. As I said before, nothing has changed about how they render,they just tweaked the values again. It's appreciated that the system is back to working, but it's still too simplistic and flawed.

 

The mod still works as intended with the original impostors.lua. If you use the much larger impostors.lua from 1.5.3 you'll get very different and unintended results from what this mod intended. Further, all the variables in the shader files are tweaked to get the right view distances for the specific pixel sizes in the mod's impostors.lua.

 

TL;DR: Use the mod's impostor's.lua if you want to keep using the mod. In 1.5.3, ED tweaked the broken values of 1.5.2 so that the impostor system is back to what it was like in 1.5.1, but they didn't fix any of the fundamental problems of the system.

 

I mean this with all due respect to ED but their implementation of imposters is a band-aid on an arterial wound. I think they are well aware of this and hopefully something is in the works.

[TomOnSteam]

This is great. Thanks for going to the effort. I hope ED follows by your example :)

[Why485]

I mean this with all due respect to ED but their implementation of imposters is a band-aid on an arterial wound. I think they are well aware of this and hopefully something is in the works.

 

[SinusoidDelta]

hahaha

 

I have nothing to back that up, just trying to keep the mood positive.:)

 

Do you have some understanding of how the lighting system works or know if that information is available?

[Why485]

hahaha

 

I have nothing to back that up, just trying to keep the mood positive.:)

 

Do you have some understanding of how the lighting system works or know if that information is available?

 

What do you mean? That's too vague a question to really answer.

[SinusoidDelta]

Sorry, My knowledge level is almost nill on this topic. I'm referring to what I think is the HLSL ambient lighting implemention. There are a huge amount of variables I see in the /shaders directory and no idea how they are linked. Atmospheric scattering, diffuse lighting, fog, haze, noise, irradiance, inscattering, transmittance, attenuation....:huh:

 

There are so many variables and equations I don't know how to make sense of it. It is a vague question, I apologize for that.

[QuiGon]

Just saw this topic. It looks great! I really hope ED takes notes.

[dadunn1700]

Thank You!!!!

 

Thank you so much for this!!!!

 

1 question though. Am i supposed to turn off "Model Enlargement" when using this mod or am I suppose to turn it on?

 

I've been gaming on a 2k Ultrawide and the scaling has been killing me. Either I can't see targets...or I turn on "model enlargement" and deal with that god awful scaling.

Edited February 25, 2016 by dadunn1700

[droopy114]

Thank you so much for this!!!!

 

1 question though. Am i supposed to turn off "Model Enlargement" when using this mod or am I suppose to turn it on?

 

I've been gaming on a 2k Ultrawide and the scaling has been killing me. Either I can't see targets...or I turn on "model enlargement" and deal with that god awful scaling.

 

Turn on the model enlargement, no matter what you choose, the value are the same for the 3 settings now.