Upcoming RDI Radar changes

[clanitho]

I don't think you can It's always scanning 60 degrees to the left & right

 

But if you use Middle narrow or middile radar scan zone it moves with your TDC cursor

 

Yes , you're right, many thank's :thumbup:

[YoYo]

i dont have a joystick that is able to do that.

Since most people do not have Warthogs...

 

You dont need for this expensive TH Warhog, all other functions I have on TH MFD Cougar (see for example here 65$ for both http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Cougar-Flight-Control-Panels/dp/B002HH9TRY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1457884013&sr=1-1&keywords=mfd+cougar+pack ) it works too with TARGET software (for this) and You can have many functions on the one button as You want:

 

 

Examle for DCS MiG-21bis: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2181886&postcount=19 .

 

It works with other joystick for sure.

Edited March 13, 2016 by YoYo

[bolek]

The problem with using joystick software (like TARGET or SST) for this is that you need a different profile for each aircraft and you have to keep switching them as you switch aircraft.

 

If there was a "cycle radar scan mode" command (even if it is unbound by default), you can assign it to whatever button/key you want for this aircraft only.

[mattebubben]

You dont need for this expensive TH Warhog, all other functions I have on TH MFD Cougar (see for example here 65$ for both http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Cougar-Flight-Control-Panels/dp/B002HH9TRY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1457884013&sr=1-1&keywords=mfd+cougar+pack ) it works too with TARGET software (for this) and You can have many functions on the one button as You want:

 

 

Examle for DCS MiG-21bis: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2181886&postcount=19 .

 

It works with other joystick for sure.

 

i still feel like it would be better for all invloved if Razbam just added the additional control options.

[AussieGhost789]

So, one thing I noticed is that the radar display doesn't seem to display things properly when on the 160 setting. The other thing I noticed is that I'm able to lock onto an Su-27 at 79 n miles (might be 80 or beyond, but with the display not showing contacts on the 160 setting, even ones I can see on 80 or less, I can't tell). I don't really know anything about the capability of the Mirage's radar, but I assumed it wouldn't have the detection range of the F-15C or Su-27S. However it currently exceeds them both quite considerably. For example, the F-15C in HPRF can detect an Su-27 at just outside 60nm and can lock it up at 55 nm. So, is the detection capability of the M2K still WIP, and should that be expected to be reduced significantly? Or should I be pleasantly surprised about the range at which the Mirage can detect targets?

[Zeus67]

So, one thing I noticed is that the radar display doesn't seem to display things properly when on the 160 setting. The other thing I noticed is that I'm able to lock onto an Su-27 at 79 n miles (might be 80 or beyond, but with the display not showing contacts on the 160 setting, even ones I can see on 80 or less, I can't tell). I don't really know anything about the capability of the Mirage's radar, but I assumed it wouldn't have the detection range of the F-15C or Su-27S. However it currently exceeds them both quite considerably. For example, the F-15C in HPRF can detect an Su-27 at just outside 60nm and can lock it up at 55 nm. So, is the detection capability of the M2K still WIP, and should that be expected to be reduced significantly? Or should I be pleasantly surprised about the range at which the Mirage can detect targets?

 

Okay. Next radar iteration should come with the following:

 

 

• Scan limit up to 80 nmiles. The 160 and 320 nmiles range are for use with Ground Controlled Intercept (GCI). The radar won't display anything at those ranges except for the contact info provided by the GCI.
  
• Lock range limit to 55 nmiles, as per the available info, and only when the radar is in HPRF. STT is only available in HPRF.
  
• TWS lock limit to 20 nmiles in ENT (Interleaved HPRF + LPRF). No STT.
  
• RWS only in LPRF. Some info indicates that in LPRF we get ground returns as well since it basically disables the doppler filtering. Also, the same info indicates that the contacts icons change from the V to a square.
  

[mattebubben]

Okay. Next radar iteration should come with the following:

 

 

• Scan limit up to 80 nmiles. The 160 and 320 nmiles range are for use with Ground Controlled Intercept (GCI). The radar won't display anything at those ranges except for the contact info provided by the GCI.
  
• Lock range limit to 55 nmiles, as per the available info, and only when the radar is in HPRF. STT is only available in HPRF.
  
• TWS lock limit to 20 nmiles in ENT (Interleaved HPRF + LPRF). No STT.
  
• RWS only in LPRF. Some info indicates that in LPRF we get ground returns as well since it basically disables the doppler filtering. Also, the same info indicates that the contacts icons change from the V to a square.
  

 

 

Great => looking forward to it.

 

You guys found any solution to the Ghost Contacts problem?

 

Im loving this Module and the progress you guys are making =).

[Zeus67]

Great => looking forward to it.

 

You guys found any solution to the Ghost Contacts problem?

 

Im loving this Module and the progress you guys are making =).

 

On the Ghost contacts and the early contact lost issue, I must coordinate with ED. Since this is a problem with the basic radar functionality, which is provided by ED, rather than something I control. I have no date for this since ED is busy with the Great Merge . ;)

[Azrayen]

The 160 and 320 nmiles range are for use with Ground Controlled Intercept (GCI). The radar won't display anything at those ranges except for the contact info provided by the GCI.

I have a dream... (you may begin to run, a user comes up with an idea :D):

 

Wouldn't it super cool that a human controller (using LotAtc) could send a target through datalink (named téléaffichage on the aircraft) to a pilot flying the M-2000?

I'll ask DArt too, obviously. :)

 

But I'm surprised as to why the designers of the radar choose not to make the VTB display the contacts it could detect? I mean, with the 160 range, a contact really detected at 70 NM could be displayed at the center of the screen... So, are you sure of that? Feels weird at first glance! (perhaps it's a declutter issue, though...)

 

= = = =

 

Happy to hear about the other progress. Sound logical indeed to get ground returns in BFR (Low PRF) since it's non-doppler. I take it we won't get those returns in DCS for the time being (waiting for some kind of "A-G radar API")? Or do you think you can work a way around current limitation to implement it anyway?

 

++

Az'

Edited March 14, 2016 by Azrayen

[YoYo]

The problem with using joystick software (like TARGET or SST) for this is that you need a different profile for each aircraft and you have to keep switching them as you switch aircraft.

 

It isn't a problem, it's a blessing!

I have always profiles for modules - so no any problem uninstall, install and binding this for the new version, DCS 1,5, 2.0, ... 3.0 ect. ;> Just load a dedicated profile + set up axis only, nothing more :).

[iborg]

I have a dream... (you may begin to run, a user comes up with an idea :D):

 

Wouldn't it super cool that a human controller (using LotAtc) could send a target through datalink (named téléaffichage on the aircraft) to a pilot flying the M-2000?

I'll ask DArt too, obviously. :)

 

But I'm surprised as to why the designers of the radar choose not to make the VTB display the contacts it could detect? I mean, with the 160 range, a contact really detected at 70 NM could be displayed at the center of the screen... So, are you sure of that? Feels weird at first glance! (perhaps it's a declutter issue, though...)

 

= = = =

 

Happy to hear about the other progress. Sound logical indeed to get ground returns in BFR (Low PRF) since it's non-doppler. I take it we won't get those returns in DCS for the time being (waiting for some kind of "A-G radar API")? Or do you think you can work a way around current limitation to implement it anyway?

 

++

Az'

 

I've had the same dream since I read the Mirage 2000C manual (the one about the real plane) mentioning téléaffichage and GCI. Hopefully one day GCI could be integrated into DCS just like AWACS... :music_whistling:

 

It isn't a problem, it's a blessing!

I have always profiles for modules - so no any problem uninstall, install and binding this for the new version, DCS 1,5, 2.0, ... 3.0 ect. ;> Just load a dedicated profile + set up axis only, nothing more :).

 

You can save/load controller settings in DCS too...

[TomCatMucDe]

Okay. Next radar iteration should come with the following:

 

 

• Scan limit up to 80 nmiles. The 160 and 320 nmiles range are for use with Ground Controlled Intercept (GCI). The radar won't display anything at those ranges except for the contact info provided by the GCI.
  
• Lock range limit to 55 nmiles, as per the available info, and only when the radar is in HPRF. STT is only available in HPRF.
  
• TWS lock limit to 20 nmiles in ENT (Interleaved HPRF + LPRF). No STT.
  
• RWS only in LPRF. Some info indicates that in LPRF we get ground returns as well since it basically disables the doppler filtering. Also, the same info indicates that the contacts icons change from the V to a square.
  

 

 

Thanks Zeus!

Is there a way to squeeze in the IFF for locked contacts in CCM for the next update? It is currently the only mode where IFF isn't working.

[bzhnono]

Seeing all that, I think I will need some training mission and youtube video to actually know how to use the new radar :O

[IvanK]

From Zeus:

 

"

 

• Scan limit up to 80 nmiles. The 160 and 320 nmiles range are for use with Ground Controlled Intercept (GCI). The radar won't display anything at those ranges except for the contact info provided by the GCI.
  
• Lock range limit to 55 nmiles, as per the available info, and only when the radar is in HPRF. STT is only available in HPRF.
  
• TWS lock limit to 20 nmiles in ENT (Interleaved HPRF + LPRF). No STT.
  
• RWS only in LPRF. Some info indicates that in LPRF we get ground returns as well since it basically disables the doppler filtering. Also, the same info indicates that the contacts icons change from the V to a square.
  

So is HPRF automatically commanded when you attempt lock on or does the pilot have to ensure/select HPRF before attempting a lock ?

[GGTharos]

IMHO that should be automatically commanded ... everything I have seen regarding STT so far is that a modern radar will attempt to command HPRF at STT, but may use MPRF depending on the situation. It will pretty much always attempt HPRF STT when you try to launch an RF missile though, and possibly abort if it cannot or the missile may fail to guide or who-knows-what :)

Again, AFAIK.

[IvanK]

I figured that GG but its French :)

[GGTharos]

Haha :)

 

Yeah, just voicing an opinion ... I have zero operational documents for the RDI sadly :)

[Badlego]

Okay. Next radar iteration should come with the following:

 

 

• Scan limit up to 80 nmiles. The 160 and 320 nmiles range are for use with Ground Controlled Intercept (GCI). The radar won't display anything at those ranges except for the contact info provided by the GCI.
  
• Lock range limit to 55 nmiles, as per the available info, and only when the radar is in HPRF. STT is only available in HPRF.
  
• TWS lock limit to 20 nmiles in ENT (Interleaved HPRF + LPRF). No STT.
  
• RWS only in LPRF. Some info indicates that in LPRF we get ground returns as well since it basically disables the doppler filtering. Also, the same info indicates that the contacts icons change from the V to a square.
  

 

So it will not be possible anymore to track contacts that are farther away than 20 miles, theres a limited ability to scan for hot aspect targets (cause no hprf) and when locking a cold aspect target, the lock has a good probability to break, because the freg changes to hprf..doesnt sound that good for me....

 

another question, when losing a lock or track, the radar elevation returns to zero. Thats critical when a lock of a much higher or lower target is lost, cause it takes time to steer the antenna back again....so, shouldnt the antenna elevation stay where it was while the lock? and i also think, that the antenna elevation doesnt follow with tracked target, and also cannot bes changed manualy while tracking, so that ill lose the lock as soon as a target leaves the cone.

[AussieGhost789]

So it will not be possible anymore to track contacts that are farther away than 20 miles, theres a limited ability to scan for hot aspect targets (cause no hprf) and when locking a cold aspect target, the lock has a good probability to break, because the freg changes to hprf..doesnt sound that good for me....

 

another question, when losing a lock or track, the radar elevation returns to zero. Thats critical when a lock of a much higher or lower target is lost, cause it takes time to steer the antenna back again....so, shouldnt the antenna elevation stay where it was while the lock? and i also think, that the antenna elevation doesnt follow with tracked target, and also cannot bes changed manualy while tracking, so that ill lose the lock as soon as a target leaves the cone.

 

From the way I read it, the range at which you can track the target is 55 nmiles, not 20. The 20 nmile figure refers to the range at which you can track a target in TWS in Interleaved HPRF and LPRF. Beyond that range TWS must be in HPRF, and HPRF is also required for STT.

 

HPRF is good for head on targets, MPRF (and I'm guessing LPRF and maybe interleaved HPRF in the case of the Mirage) is better for side on or tail on targets, particularly when notching is a factor. So I take that to mean that HPRF is good for targets with high closure rates and MPRF/LPRF is better for targets with low closure rate.

 

So a target approaching head on can be tracked in STT or TWS from inside 55 nmiles, but only with HPRF. A target that is side on or tail on would have a harder time being tracked with HPRF, so interleaved HPRF or LPRF is used. This means the target can be tracked in TWS in these PRF settings, but they are limited to 20 miles and can not support STT.

 

That's my take on this. Hopefully I'm not way off.

[Azrayen]

From the way I read it, the range at which you can track the target is 55 nmiles, not 20. The 20 nmile figure refers to the range at which you can track a target in TWS in Interleaved HPRF and LPRF. Beyond that range TWS must be in HPRF, and HPRF is also required for STT.

That's also how I read it.

 

BTW, I think I remember some guy saying HPRF is the default or the "main" mode of the RDI. I suggest that, when he upgrades the PRF switch, Zeus makes him have "HFR" as the default position.

 

HPRF is good for head on targets, MPRF (and I'm guessing LPRF and maybe interleaved HPRF in the case of the Mirage) is better for side on or tail on targets, particularly when notching is a factor. So I take that to mean that HPRF is good for targets with high closure rates and MPRF/LPRF is better for targets with low closure rate.

Yeah, OK too. Except you seem to distinguish MPRF and Interleaved. "Only" 3 settings exist, not 4:

- HFR = High PRF (doppler)

- MFR/ENT = "Medium" PRF in fact an interleavation of HPRF and LPRF.

- BFR = Low PRF (non doppler)

Edited March 16, 2016 by Azrayen

[TomCatMucDe]

Agree with the 2 above posts. That's also how I understood Zeus.

 

However, when a target is lost the antenna elevation should remain where it was. It task a lot of time to slew back manually

[AussieGhost789]

That's also how I read it.

 

BTW, I think I remember some guy saying HPRF is the default or the "main" mode of the RDI. I suggest that, when he upgrades the PRF switch, Zeus makes him have "HFR" as the default position.

 

 

Yeah, OK too. Except you seem to distinguish MPRF and Interleaved. "Only" 3 settings exist, not 4:

- HFR = High PRF (doppler)

- MFR/ENT = "Medium" PRF in fact an interleavation of HPRF and LPRF.

- BFR = Low PRF (non doppler)

 

Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. I guess I need to do a little more of this :book:

[nomdeplume]

However, when a target is lost the antenna elevation should remain where it was. It task a lot of time to slew back manually

This makes sense, but may be problematic for people who use an axis to control the radar elevation. Unless they use a force-feedback axis, I guess. :)

 

How does it work in real aircraft? Is the control a roller like a trackball or similar that has no limits to its movement, and only provides deltas rather than an absolute position?

[GGTharos]

The axis in RL aircraft can be spring loaded to return to center, thus it only controls the RATE OF MOTION of the antenna, not the actual position. IMHO. That is how it is implemented on the RL F-15.

[nomdeplume]

The axis in RL aircraft can be spring loaded to return to center, thus it only controls the RATE OF MOTION of the antenna, not the actual position. IMHO. That is how it is implemented on the RL F-15.

Ah of course! That makes sense. Thanks.