Oculus Rift with DCS World Discussion

[Johnny Dioxin]

I've seen posts on reddit by people who tried to use contacts due to the situation with wearing glasses in the Rift and having a lot of clarity issues. Maybe this is your problem.

[hansangb]

Or a lot about how people will defend a questionable investment, after they have made it. Though, I must admit, I am very happy with the significant investment that I made in Facebook after they bought Oculus.

 

cichlidfan, to each his own. Some with projectors will say monitor people are stupid for not adopting bigger screens. 4K crowd will say projector people are stupid for sacrificing clarity over size. Pit builders will say physical realism trumps all and people with just HOTAS are stupid. I think VR immersion trumps stupid eye candy every time.

 

And everyone would be right. It's not about defending questionable investment. After all, someone who's struggling to make ends meet will think people who plunk down $2K for a game computer are making questionable investment. So again, to each his own.

[Kaiza]

Although, I have my 2500K running at 4.8 GHz, which should without question be faster than say, a stock i5-4590 running at 3.3 GHz. I'm running the latest 368.69 on a single 980Ti on Windows 10 (dogbite, aren't most people running Win10 these days?).

 

Anyway, I continue to run more tests. I've at least confirmed that in Oculus Home, I can get the Pixel Density changes via the Debug Tool to take hold, as verified by the Layer overlay that shows it. But I struggle to actually see any improvement in image quality in Home.

 

Similarly, in DCS, using the in-game Pixel Density setting, I can go all the way up to 2.5 and not see any noticeable image improvement at all. My VRAM usage in MSI Afterburner goes up a bit, which makes me think the PD is taking hold, but the actual image is no sharper.

 

As an example, sitting on the runway in the A-10C (where I get about 60 FPS), I cannot read the word 'temp' on the engine temp gauges, nor can I read the coordinates of the TDC on the left MFCD that appear above the bottom row button labels. And the UFC labels under the buttons, for example STEER, are not even clear, despite them being very close to my virtual head position. The side console button and switch labels are blurry mess, and really don't improve no matter how far I lean into them.

 

I've also got all kinds of god rays on any text that contrasts sharply with whatever is behind it; the CDU on the right MFCD, for example, has terrible god rays as I move my viewpoint slightly left and right of its center.

 

At this point I suspect it's some combination of 1) too high expectations, 2) my own eyesight, 3) possibly something just wrong with my Rift in particular. So many people across different forums seem to think that playing with PD radically improves image quality, and I'm just not seeing it at all. Really frustrating. At least I have also found a small few who aren't seeing any difference.

 

What do you have textures set to? I think this makes a big difference for gauge readability.

[MBot]

VR leads to interesting new insights on cockpit ergonomics. I have a side-stick arrangement with my joystick on leg level, very similar to the F-16 layout. What I noticed is that this position severely restricts the ability to turn the upper body to the left and check six over the left shoulder. A central mount apparently allows for much more freedom to maneuver in your cockpit, including switching hand when looking aft-right. I seriously need a ground mounted, long-throw, central stick arrangement :)

[GregP]

Appreciate all the comments, guys. Taking them one by one:

 

Great example - I can't read them either. Many of the textures and fonts are not legible unless you really lean in - those are some of them. They need to be redesigned for VR. Bigger textures and fonts like for the main instruments (ADI/Altimeter/VertVel,etc..)should seem fairly clear but the Screen Door Effect as well as resolution and texture filtering/antialiasing all play a real part in being able to read elements easily.

 

OK, that's validating to hear then, that what I'm seeing is apparently not radically different from everyone else. I think I truly have been spoiled by 4K -- I've been running it on a 58" monitor for 2+ years now, sitting up close, so everything in the cockpit has been easily readable, almost real-life size.

 

FWIW...you list 2 980Ti and 22.5 fps.

 

I'm running a single 980Ti and with no pixel density adjustment I spend most of the time locked in at 90 fps. turning it up close to 2, I get drops down to 60fps or so.

 

Neither DCS nor the Rift are very good about SLI support AFAIK...not sure if that's throwing you off.

 

I should've been clearer: as soon as I hooked up the Rift, I disabled SLI in NVCP, so that shouldn't be causing an issue here. My earlier example of 22.5 FPS was also probably a poor one to use -- that was in the M2000C, with my pre-Rift graphical settings (e.g. Shadows ultra, etc.). In the later A-10C tests, I dropped Shadows to medium, etc. and just sitting on a runway in the Caucasus, I was seeing mostly in the 60 FPS range. In 2D, on 1.5.4OB, at 4K with most graphics options maxed, I can generally maintain 40-90 FPS.

 

I've seen posts on reddit by people who tried to use contacts due to the situation with wearing glasses in the Rift and having a lot of clarity issues. Maybe this is your problem.

 

This could definitely be it, because I have astigmatism in both eyes, which makes wearing contacts annoying -- they have to be in exactly the correct orientation in order to work. I imagine the perception of god rays gets worse with astigmatism too. And overall, even outside of the Rift, I see less well with contacts than I do with glasses.

 

What do you have textures set to? I think this makes a big difference for gauge readability.

 

High, so I don't think that's causing this.

 

I'm wondering at this point if DCS really is using the Pixel Density that I choose in the VR menu, because I really see no perceptible improvement in image quality when I change it. During the tests I did last night, I think I may have still had the Oculus Debug Tool open -- I wonder if its PD setting might have overridden that of DCS?

Edited July 9, 2016 by GregP

[Flamin_Squirrel]

During the tests I did last night, I think I may have still had the Oculus Debug Tool open -- I wonder if its PD setting might have overridden that of DCS?

 

Easy way to check. Open the tool (don't change the PD setting) and select the layer overlay. It should say 1.00. Run DCS, and it should change to 2.00 (or whatever you've set in DCS) once DCS loads.

[GregP]

Easy way to check. Open the tool (don't change the PD setting) and select the layer overlay. It should say 1.00. Run DCS, and it should change to 2.00 (or whatever you've set in DCS) once DCS loads.

 

Right, I was wondering if that would work, i.e. if the Debug Tool would notice when an outside app changed PD.

 

But, a few seconds after my previous post, I recalled that the previous day, I'd been changing PD in DCS before I even knew about the Debug Tool, and I was seeing no difference. So it's unlikely that the Debug Tool was overriding DCS's PD. Still though, worth verifying if DCS is applying its own PD correctly.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Yes, I was suggesting the PD tool use as above to confirm that the PD option in DCS is actually working.

 

There does seem to be a difference in opinion, for whatever reason, on the effectiveness on PD; it's not just you.

[hansangb]

Right, I was wondering if that would work, i.e. if the Debug Tool would notice when an outside app changed PD.

 

But, a few seconds after my previous post, I recalled that the previous day, I'd been changing PD in DCS before I even knew about the Debug Tool, and I was seeing no difference. So it's unlikely that the Debug Tool was overriding DCS's PD. Still though, worth verifying if DCS is applying its own PD correctly.

 

Maybe look into these guys? I'm going to order a set.

 

https://vr-lens-lab.com/product/lens-inserts/

[GregP]

Yes, I was suggesting the PD tool use as above to confirm that the PD option in DCS is actually working.

 

There does seem to be a difference in opinion, for whatever reason, on the effectiveness on PD; it's not just you.

 

Right, that was a great idea, and I just tested it -- yes, the DT does confirm that DCS is changing PD. And this time around, yes, I could see a steady improvement as I moved from 1.0 to 1.5 to 2.0 to 2.5, especially in the menus.

 

BUT, unfortunately for me, even at 2.5, I just wouldn't consider this a viable alternative to 4K. The immersion is absolutely stunning, I completely agree with that. But the tradeoff is just too great. VR on the Rift right now reminds of watching a video of some domed military flight sim from the 90's, or Falcon 4.0's original "3D" pit -- sure the immersion is great, but wow, the lack of detail just kills it for me.

 

Maybe look into these guys? I'm going to order a set.

 

https://vr-lens-lab.com/product/lens-inserts/

 

Yeah, I'd considered that, but even without the god rays etc., based on above I'm pretty it wouldn't make enough of a difference, at least to me. Especially as I actually did the above tests with my glasses on....

 

Oh well. Seems the bottom line for me is that VR simply isn't far enough along yet. Maybe in a generation or two, which hopefully will only be a few years.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Understandable, it depends on your priorities. The aircraft you like to fly makes a difference too I think. Warbirds and some helicopters in particular that benefit the most from the increased depth perception also tend to have simple cockpits so work well.

 

If you're into planes like the A-10, I can see why you'd consider it not worth using. It's already easy to fly, but has a complicated cockpit with lots of small text. Losing the higher resolution to pickup ground targets is also a problem; not ideal.

 

Once the F/A-18C comes out, I doubt I'll fly much else; I'm concerned it'll be tricky with VR however. Learning the aircraft so I know where everything is without having to stare at the text will be key.

 

Roll on CV2...

Edited July 9, 2016 by Flamin_Squirrel

[cichlidfan]

After all, someone who's struggling to make ends meet will think people who plunk down $2K for a game computer are making questionable investment. So again, to each his own.

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

[Purg]

Yes, I was suggesting the PD tool use as above to confirm that the PD option in DCS is actually working.

 

Another way is to knock it down to 0.5 in game. You'll notice very quickly if the slider is doing anything.

[hansangb]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

 

Sure it does. Average_Pilot mentioned that he was shocked more people didn't complain about clarity etc. Which he credited the power of VR.

 

You then said it's more about people defending questionable investment. Implication is that we are all "drinking the coolaid" and are like sheep. Is that not your point? My point is that to some, *all* of this is questionable investment.

 

I for one am having a ball and am willing to pay the price. Both in terms of $$ and lack of 4K clarity.

[SkateZilla]

I didn't forget about the VR/NonVR Settings QuickGuide Guys, I'm Actually trying to catch up on some other things, will post up a guide soon.

 

Also Debating if I want to Add VR / NonVR Launch Buttons w/ only the arguments to enable/disable to the DCS GUI Utility.

Edited July 10, 2016 by SkateZilla

[DerekSpeare]

I didn't forget about the VR/NonVR Settings QuickGuide Guys, I'm Actually trying to catch up on some other things, will post up a guide soon.

 

Also Debating if I want to Add VR / NonVR Launch Buttons w/ only the arguments to enable/disable to the DCS GUI Utility.

 

:thumbup: Anything aimed at making the VR experience better will be appreciated!

[Mad Dog 7.62]

Occasionally I load DCS World with Rift turned off, as mission building is faster in a monitor, and I marvel at how I ever bothered to fly on a 2D screen.

It literally looks so boring that, after spending the last two months in VR, I would rather just go do another activity than have to fly on a 2D monitor ever again.

 

 

This sums it up.

[Johnny Dioxin]

if I may mention another sim - P3Dv3 - I've just spent over an hour flying along the coast of Papua New Guinea in a Beech Bonanza and yes, everything except what I was looking at was out of focus and it never felt like I was flying over real ground - but boy, what an experience!

 

The whole approach to flying has to be different - seeing my wings only just clear the treetops on the tops of ridges was just a complete "wow - just made that!" moment in a completely different way to the "who really gives?" sort of thing you experience on a 2D monitor.

 

Flying into clouds in a valley between two huge mountains - I actually found myself in a struggle for altitude that I never had in 2D flying - the scenery had pulled me in and I nearly became a part of it. I think I was smiling for the entire flight.

 

I just wish I could record exactly what I see in my Rift - such a shame.

 

Easily worth what I paid for it (which is a lot more than Americans paid for theirs, btw - but probably less than the Aussies).

[Einherjer]

I have a question about the usb 3 problem... How sensible is the OR about the "supported" and "not supported" usb3 ports? And have someone tried a USB hub (which surely is not a good idea)

[SkateZilla]

You can always use USB 2.0,

[Einherjer]

Oh - ok that's good - thanks ;)

[Johnny Dioxin]

I have a question about the usb 3 problem... How sensible is the OR about the "supported" and "not supported" usb3 ports? And have someone tried a USB hub (which surely is not a good idea)

 

I just had the recommended "Inateck" one delivered an hour ago - but I've been using an "unsupported" PCIe USB3 port up to now and it has worked perfectly (I borrowed it from another PC so I had to buy another one anyway).

 

Hang on and I'll let you know which one it was...

 

back again :) it was THIS one - SEDNA Renesas, powered.

 

I had been using my onboard USB3.0 ports (on an Asus Z77V board) but the sound kept cutting out.

 

Edit: hmm - strange. A few days ago I posted a review on that Amazon page, stating that I had used it with the Rift and it worked well - with 5 stars. Now it's gone! Wonder if Facebook or Inateck had a hand in that..... (luv conspiracy theories :D )

Edited July 11, 2016 by Brixmis
spellling

[SkateZilla]

HMD USB is for Sync/Data and Audio Controller, (the Sync is used to sync w/ the camera, the data is used to communicate w/ the Rift's internals, Firmware updates, self tests, commands etc etc).

Sensor USB is for Tracking etc.

 

I used it on USB 2.0 fine until I got the Specific USB 3.0 Card they said is guaranteed to work.

 

USB 2.0 supposedly limits the FPS it tracks, i saw no difference.

 

The issue is 95% of the mainboard manufacturers adjust and change their USB3 controller settings to be out of spec, (ya know, those "super speed" modes you have to download the mainboard software to enable 300x boost etc).

 

That and the Rift itself is out of spec, so it causes issues in the form of data loss etc.

[Einherjer]

Thanks for clarification! I have already bought this inateck usb 3 card. But my pc doesn't recognize it. Was also unable to install the driver, so I will try it with my regular usb3 ports which are not officially supported... We will see, thanks guys!

[cichlidfan]

I didn't even try the motherboard ports on the build in my sig, I installed the Innatek before the first boot and just used those from the git go.