Oculus CV1 or HTC Vive

[Vivoune]

Note that the thread isn't called "Oculus CV1 vs HTC Vive" for a reason, I think both are great and will do just fine, there's no wrong choice.

 

I think that's a question that a lot of us are asking ourselves. I know I am. I'm not particularly biased towards one or the other. This is talking about the consumer version of both HMDs, not the DK2 nor the Vive pre.

 

I find it very hard to find comparison between the two consumer headsets. There are a few on various forums or reddit but they're mostly conflicting and all over the place. I mostly leave the Room Scale out of the equation, even if it's a great thing that one day could allow us to get out and have a look at our aircraft for before-flight verification or after flight damage reports (that sounds really cool) we're only really using it seated.

 

This is what I could gather from people that tried both on the same apps and at the same time :

 

Comfort

 

The CV1 is more lightweight (by 85 grams) and has better head straps, so is all in all more comfortable than the Vive.

 

That's something I don't mind much as you can read everywhere people being perfectly happy spending hours on end in both units, I think it's a matter of having it correctly set-up, and worse-case scenario, can be rather easily corrected by 3rd party straps and face pads.

 

I won't cover cable management as we're mostly seated.

 

Screen

 

Although they have the same resolution the Vive has a bigger vertical FOV than the CV1 so it feels less like looking at a world through a scuba diving mask resulting in a better sense of immersion.

 

That translates to a lower pixel density in the Vive thus a supposedly less "crisp" image. Most people that tried both in conjunction agrees that both screens, despite these differences, are very similar and most flaws are being easily overlooked once immersed into the world.

 

I can't comment on the screen door effect since feedback are absolutely all over the place and conflicting... I only know that the CV1 has more of a diagonal pixel arrangement while the vive has more of a checkered/tri-force pixel arrangement. Both SDE mostly feels like looking at printed paper rather than the good old SDE of the DK1 & 2 and you have to be looking at it to notice it.

 

There are also numerous reports of the CV1 having a much better wider "sweet spot" than the Vive, to a point where some think their Vive has hardware issues. Meaning the CV1 has most of their screen being crisp quality where the Vive gets blurry quite fast when not looking straight ahead. A lot of conflicting feedback on this too as some say it gets more blurry as you approach the borders, other say it's clear with only the near border zone being blurry, other say there's a tiny sweet spot at the center being the only readable area while other says they had their Vive set up all wrong for days and once used correctly also reach a crisp screen with a wide sweet spot. There are conflicting infos all over the internet with people wearing prescription glasses with different eye problems, setting the Vive up incorrectly etc. That's quite an important factor for flight simmers like us as the smaller the sweet spot the less usable cockpit we have so it's a bit disturbing that HTC failed at providing an easy and consistent way to set up the unit correctly, obviously the CV1 is a much more refined product in that regard.

 

In terms of contrast, brightness and colors, the Vive seems to have a brighter screen with a better contrast, deeper blacks and more vibrant colors. Some people prefer the CV1 dimmer screen that is found more natural and less "digital" than the Vive's. It seem to be a matter of taste much like when buying a TV though, some prefer the CV1 some prefer the Vive. The CV1 seem to struggle with blacks that are often rather grey, recent software updates seem to have improved the situation.

 

Lenses

 

Sadly both headsets suffer from the now infamous god-ray effect when high contrast images are being shown (a clear hud in space or at night for exemple) resulting in light bleeding into the user's eye through the lenses and breaking immersion. Everyone seem to agree it's worse on the CV1 than on the Vive.

 

Although that's an issue I don't think it should be that big of a deciding factor, I'd be surprised if there wouldn't be different set of lenses official or 3rd party to correct that so the CV1 issue should be easily fixable.

 

Tracking

 

Most agree that the tracking system of the Vive, being laser based and using two tracking sources, is near perfect and more precise and stable than the CV1. The CV1 still offer an absolutely solid experience, but is more comparable to a trackIR being infrared based. And yes, despite the fact that most reviewers omit to speak about it due to the 'wow' factor of room scale, the Vive works just as well seated behind a joystick as it does standing in the middle of a room.

 

***

 

I dont cover audio as I think most of us will use our own audio solution anyway and the CV1 audio can be easily taken out. I'm not covering software, setting and general support either because I find everything will evolve a lot in the coming months. I don't take price in consideration either as I feel they're rather similarly priced once the controllers are taken into consideration.

 

Any of you guys have both headsets and have done proper first hand comparison? That'd be great to hear from you guys.

 

Currently I have a Vive on order, but I'm not completely set, it mostly depends on if the reports of the CV1 having a more crisp image and a much wider sweet spot is true and independent of the hardware setup correctly for the specific user (glasses, IPD etc) or not.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Vivoune

[Vivoune]

I reckon that's sarcasm.

 

If the Rift truly as a better image quality and a wider sweet spot that's a game changer for simulation.

 

So in that sense the Vive would offer a less optimal experience. But again, it's hard to see what's correct or not as there are many conflicting feedback and with different user setups (one user reporting a much less forgiving sweet spot in the Vive, then someone commenting it's because the writer is wearing prescription glasses and that he himself noticed a more forgiving sweet spot in the Vive than in the CV1... So it's quite difficult.

 

There are many reports of people getting rid of any blurriness by wearing it properly. So I don't know what's what tbh.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Vivoune

[Mt5_Roie]

So I have the CV1, and had the DK2. But I looked at about 10-20 different VS reviews online and they all pretty much said the same thing - if you use the Vive: you need room. Many you tubers I watch had to actually re-arrange their rooms to set up the Vive to work correctly.

 

The CV1 works well in a sitting position which is what most of us pilots are doing. Head tracking is fine and the lightweight is great.

 

Now if I had the money to build a 747 cockpit, I think the Vive might be cooler because I could get up and walk around the cabin better.

 

For me another factor was that Vive is new versus Oculus which as been through a couple developer versions. I felt better spending 600 dollars after using the DK2 for quite a bit of time. I don't think I would have jumped into the VR game if the price was 800 dollars and I hadn't tested the developer version.

 

These are my opinions so take them as you will.

[Vivoune]

I saw your vids Roie, they're cool, thanks and keep them coming ;)

 

The OR definitely feels more like a refined final product than the "functional" look and comfort of the Vive no question here! I'm one of those who really find the Vive ugly.

 

But I beg to differ on using the Vive as a seated experience, it's a growing misconception, the Vive can be used just as well in a tight spot or in a cockpit in a seated position. Reviewers are so focused on Room Scale that they tend to forget the Vive works just as well in a seated manner and some even think it can only be used standing with the furniture moved out of the way. I've found the Room Scale with its VR controllers in reviews are such a 'wow' factor that they completely forget to talk about the Vive's seated experience. Like HTC Vive engineer Shen Ye says "Thinking Vive can't do seated VR is like thinking colour TV can't do black and white."

 

[ame]

[/ame] Edited April 23, 2016 by Vivoune

[Mt5_Roie]

Very nice....It's good to hear it works well in a seated position.

 

I think we are at the dawn of a really new VR emergence. Once they start making VR cheaper and computers that can handle them that don't cost too much - it's going to blow up big. So far in my ride from the DK2 things have already improved so much. So it's going to be an awesome journey.

 

I saw your vids Roie, they're cool, thanks and keep them coming ;)

 

The OR definitely feels more like a refined final product than the "functional" look and comfort of the Vive no question here! I'm one of those who really find the Vive ugly.

 

But I beg to differ on using the Vive as a seated experience, it's a growing misconception, the Vive can be used just as well in a tight spot or in a cockpit in a seated position. Reviewers are so focused on Room Scale that they tend to forget the Vive works just as well in a seated manner and some even think it can only be used standing with the furniture moved out of the way. I've found the Room Scale with its VR controllers in reviews are such a 'wow' factor that they completely forget to talk about the Vive's seated experience. Like HTC Vive engineer Shen Ye says "Thinking Vive can't do seated VR is like thinking colour TV can't do black and white."

 

[Vivoune]

Very nice....It's good to hear it works well in a seated position.

 

I think we are at the dawn of a really new VR emergence. Once they start making VR cheaper and computers that can handle them that don't cost too much - it's going to blow up big. So far in my ride from the DK2 things have already improved so much. So it's going to be an awesome journey.

 

I hear you! :) That's even more of a game changer in the sim community where VR is a perfect match.

[hansangb]

Knowing 14th_JAR, I'm sure it was said as it was meant - not being facetious, at all. He's not the type to troll anyone!

 

I don't think you should discount the audio as "pick the cans you like better" I think the RealSpace3D audio by Oculus will be a *huge* part of the immersion process.

 

I couldn't decide either, so I ordered both! :) This way, I can decide which one I like best. I like the small front facing camera of vive. If it works well, I can use it to see my physical switch boxes MFDs etc. We'll see. Another month or so, and I should have both units.

[Flim]

I've been a Oculus fan since kickstarter....however, I ordered a Vive!

[Vivoune]

Thanks for the heads up hansagb, I guess the "Pre-ordered OCULUS RIFT - March 28 ship date." in 14th_JAR sig combined with "Your Vive is obviously way better than Rift." (particularly the "your") that got me confused. Which surprised me considering 14th_JAR's comment usually are very considerate and constructive. My apologies then :)

 

I'll be very interested to hear your reviews and comparison on both HMD if you find the time! A vive should arrive here by June, I'm sticking to it, but I'm really curious about how both units compare for our niche genre.

[WindyTX]

I got my Vive Friday had a DK2 for 2 years and the recent software improvements have been amazing.

 

I found it worked just as well as my DK2 for DCS I have tried a couple of missions and have yet to notice any judder.

 

I tried Elite Dangerous and the Gods Rays were terrible so distracting that I wished I had not sold my DK2.

 

I have a CV1 arriving in June I was hoping that it would not suffer so badly. Can someone who has both tell me the situation from 1st hand AB comparison.

[Vivoune]

Sadly it mostly is agreed upon that the CV1 has worse god-ray effects than the Vive. But both suffer from it. I fear for night time missions in DCS.

 

I wouldn't take Elite Dangerous as a benchmark though, they are having big issues with the Vive currently that they are working on.

[sirrah]

First of all thanks for all the feedback guys. I feel like a big information leecher :P

 

I was wondering, and forgive me if this question is answered elsewhere on this forum, is it possible to use the clickable cockpits using the vive controllers? And if so, is this even practical using hotas?

 

I'm still having so much doubt if I should go for the vive or cv1.... Right now I lean towards the vive

 

One thing's for sure, this year I will enjoy VR in dcs!! :pilotfly:

Dreamt of VR like this in a flightsim since I was a little boy :P

Edited April 24, 2016 by sirrah

[xgitarrist]

A question for anybody who already tried a VR headset with his own computer....

 

What are the minimum fps to have a good game experience. Some players say 60+ fps , some say over 80 ....

 

Also how much more hardware ressource does a Vr headset consumes compared to a single monitor?

 

For example, if i can play the game with constant 60 fps on a monitor, how much will fps drop with a vr headset ?

[rrohde]

Reason why I'll be going with the Vive - not owned by Facebook.

[Vivoune]

is it possible to use the clickable cockpits using the vive controllers? And if so, is this even practical using hotas?

 

I don't think it's currently possible, even if we could I don't think it'd be ideal,having some sort of tracked gloves with good haptic feedback would be better imho. "VR gloves" is something that I'm sure will get resolved and kickstarted sooner rather than later.

 

What are the minimum fps to have a good game experience. Some players say 60+ fps , some say over 80 ....

 

Also how much more hardware ressource does a Vr headset consumes compared to a single monitor?

 

For example, if i can play the game with constant 60 fps on a monitor, how much will fps drop with a vr headset ?

 

It depends on your monitor resolution. But both CV1 and Vive are 1080x1200 per eye (~2.6 millions pixels), if your monitor is 1080p (~2.1 million pixels) then you'll technically need 30% more power, but the reality is a bit different since optimizing rarely is a linear affair. Considering it has to run at higher FPS than monitors it can quickly get taxing. Software solutions are being worked on and will continue to evolve to help in that regard like l Asynchronous Timewarp for exemple.

 

Reason why I'll be going with the Vive - not owned by Facebook.

 

Yeah that's one of the main reason I'm not switching toward the CV1 despite it being much more refined. I don't want to see on our PC platform the sort of drama that the console wars brings and Facebook seem to go head down towards it, it will only be detrimental to VR. Meanwhile Valve already has a Oculus section in its steam store.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Vivoune

[WindyTX]

I am finding that my Vive framerate is purely dependant on the mission.

 

If I am just stoogeing around teaching circuits then its great and even close formation is fine. If however there is a load of AI targets running around and I start shooting them the explosions can give me a massive frame rate hit and completely break the immersion. My DK2 could handle a lot more explosions however the definition was less so it seems like a fair trade plus the vive is a lot brighter and the colours are way more saturated.

 

For now I limit the amount of AI tgts involved and stick to smaler missions and I find it a very enjoyable experience. The framerate locks to 45fps for a majority of the time to allow for Reprojection.

 

I am still waiting for someone with Vive and CV1 to give a AB comparison.

 

My Specs are in my Sig

[Krupi]

I simply don't understand this "facebook" nonsense what matters is the hardware and the money from facebook will improve that...

[Vivoune]

I simply don't understand this "facebook" nonsense what matters is the hardware and the money from facebook will improve that...

 

That's one way to view it.

[Vivoune]

Just to preserve his ideologically based anti-Facebook/Oculus stance. Trolls have a habit of deleting posts to remove the evidence later.

 

I don't know why you'd think I'm a troll and that my previous comment needs preserving from me removing it, I wrote what I believe in and stand by it.

 

I'm not particularly anti-Facebook nor anti-Oculus, like I've said multiple times I think both HMD are great and both have their strong and weak points, still, software-side I'd rather invest in the more open platform as I think that's what will benefit VR the most and I much prefer Valve business practices's history than Facebook's. That's just my opinion and it certainly doesn't mean anyone buying the OR makes a bad decision. I'm even still considering getting the OR everynow and then given it's strong points.

 

I hardly see how that is trolling nor how you came to the conclusion that my current or past behavior might have warranted you taking measures to prevent any futur potential trolling.

 

If such trivial discussions about either HMDs are perceived as trolling by you and that your purchase got you so emotionally tangled in duality that you can't take part in any debate without taking up arms "for or against", I'd suggest you simply not take part in it, enjoy whatever HMD you got and share your happy experiences with it on other threads for everyone to enjoy, me included.

[hansangb]

I just got notice that my Vive will be shipping soon. So basically, I may end up getting both devices around the same time. I expect one will go on Ebay shortly thereafter! :)

[Johnny Dioxin]

I firmly believe the Rift will be the better choice for my situation. But...

 

Having read through today's Reddits so far, and the latest P Luckey meltdown, I found myself on the Vive order page. I hovered on that page for over 20 minutes, before deciding to have another read through many every-day users' experiences of both headsets (and mostly those who have both) and ended up closing the browser and sticking with the Rift order.

 

At the end of the day, even if I had ordered the Vive, I'd still know that the Rift is better suited to my situation - and there are two or three aspects that make this very obvious. However, frustration nearly got the better of me. :doh:

 

I think I need to ignore everything VR connected for a couple of weeks and then have a look to see what good stuff has been announced in the meantime (such as today's Big Screen one).

[Vivoune]

Yeah lots of drama happening these days. I'd stay away from the Oculus Rift Reddit for a few weeks too, and from Palmer's tweets ^^'.

 

Big Screen VR getting free for both HMDs is great. Talking about big screens, I hope the Vive will get a great Cinema VR app in the like of the one included in the Rift Store already. I love that stuff.

[Chivas]

[vicx]

I couldn't decide either, so I ordered both! :) This way, I can decide which one I like best. I like the small front facing camera of vive. If it works well, I can use it to see my physical switch boxes MFDs etc. We'll see. Another month or so, and I should have both units.

 

The idea of operating switches and MFD buttons from VR is interesting BUT I wonder if we are at stage where we might be best turning off as many peripheral services and optional extras in DCS as possible just to get the perf up.

 

I wonder how bare bones we could run DCS just to have enough headroom for steady VR perf.

 

The theory is that I'll be a LOT more perf contrained in DCS than you because my RIG is a lot weaker BUT I wonder how much of difference there will be in practice.

 

I got my Vive arriving in a week. I'll try 90fps (fat chance); I think my 780 is much too limited so am approach I'm considering is to FORCE limit DCS to 45fps MAX. I'll be deliberately driving the Vive with a constant 45fps to force the re-projection mode constantly on instead of having it switch as the framerate in DCS fluctuates.

 

The only wrinkle is not being sure if I can actually limit the DCS framerate in VR mode. I'm not sure what config settings work in VR and what is ignored.

[Vivoune]

 

Damn, it would have been such a great and fair review if only he didn't pick the worse possible game to do comparison.

 

Here's a TLDR of his video comparison for those not having an hour to spare currently:

 

Setup and usability: Oculus Rift easily wins, easy to setup and its store works flawlessly compared to the Vive that "is quite a daunting task".

Product quality: Oculus Rift feels like a high quality premium item compared to the HTC Vive which premium factor only reside in the price they ask for it

Comfort: Oculus Rift is more comfortable and can be worn longer

Image quality: "In short, Oculus Rift wins hands down", God-ray is better in the Vive but the scale is off, the image is blurry, tearing, pixel persistence, is too bright.

Software/driver: SteamVR suffering from lag, isn't yet to the level of the the Oculus.

Tracking: Vive needs work, has software issues but is better than Oculus Rift since it has Room Scale, Oculus Rift works flawlessly regardless.

 

Final conclusion: "The Oculus Rift wins hands down. Hands. Down. I can't believe people would look at these two and decide the Vive is the better HMD."

 

As it's been pointed out Elite Dangerous is having big issues with the Vive currently that makes it considerably worse visually (Sharpness, aliasing, lag) than on the Rift for many users. It's rather well documented on Frontier's forum or Reddit. It seems to be an issue with resolution sampling among other things. I hope they get it resolved in the coming weeks. So, not to sound too harsh but I'm afraid that fine gentleman wasted a few hours of his life in the making of this video.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Vivoune