Which SU-25 has the most Versatile Capabilities ?

[SnowTiger]

I'm just getting ready to start learning the SU-25 but I'm a little confused as to which one I want to start in !!

 

I'm pretty sure the SU-25T is the one that came with DCS World.

In the case of the Mustang, we got the "lesser" of the two types with DCS World (that is, the TF-51D is NOT a fighter - Trainer Only).

But I don't think this is the case with regards to the SU-25T.

In fact, I think the "T" or "Tank" model has a TV Display screen (Targeting TV ?) that the Paid For Version, the SU-25 does NOT have this.

 

Am I mistaken OR is there a way to equip the SU-25 with the Targeting TV.

 

I want to learn to fly the "meanest" and most versatile of the 2 models.

Which do you recommend I jump into ?

 

Are there any really obvious benefits or advantages of one model versus the other ?

[mvsgas]

Well the SU-25 is older, so less weapons types, it is harder to employ those weapons because you aim with a simple cross. This version is also lighter but carries less fuel. I like this version better because it feels more rewarding when you kill a target. I often think;"I can't believe I kill that".

 

The SU-25T has autopilot, better targeting system, more varied weapons, can carry more fuel. It is also more complicated, easier to exceed the limits (over speed, over G, etc.) and when fully loaded, it handles like a dump truck on a ice covered road.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited April 26, 2016 by mvsgas

[kontiuka]

Ya, the "T" is definitely much more capable

[DarkFire]

The T version is much more capable: it can properly use precision guided weapons via the electro-optical targeting system, it can automatically drop bombs using the autopilot and is currently the only aircraft in DCS that can perform dedicated SEAD.

 

The Su-25A can still be effective but is older and much more limited in capability. Given the choice I'd take the Su-25T every time.

[Sryan]

The Frogfoot-A is much faster and much more manoeuvrable though. It does not have a TV-display but retains precision munitions and accurate CCIP and CCRP calculations through the laser rangefinder/designator mounted in the nose. Since you'll have to manually steer the laser designator with the PGM's it becomes skillful and fun to get kills, especially on moving targets.

 

The thing that the A really misses over the T are the fire and forget TV guided bombs and missiles (KAB-500KR and Kh-29T), Anti-radiation missiles for taking out SAM sites (Kh-58u and Kh25mpu) and large quantities of laser guided missiles ( Vikhr, of wich te Su-25T can carry 16..). On a sidenote the A also misses the R73 for self defense. It does carry an R60 for self defense.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Sryan

[pepin1234]

Don't buy the Su-25A. You can't see visual any target in the black Sea map. Keep using the Free Su-25T is more reliable.

[Baz000]

it can automatically drop bombs using the autopilot.

 

how to do that?

[FraserNZL]

On a sidenote the A also misses the R73 and ECM pods for self defense.

It has ecm check left wing in the rearming window under pods it has the sps141

[WinterH]

Su-25A is one of the aircraft I enjoy flying most in DCS, even though it is only FC level. And I also am, for some reason, better with it, than T when it comes to CCRP bombing. It is also nicer to fly than T, lighter, therefore performs and maneuvers better.

 

However, T is overall much more capable as a combat machine. Thanks to it's Shkval system, unline the vanilla Su-25 you can search for and target distant targets better, and the system also allows much better utilization of guided weaponry. Also, the T has significantly more weapon types available when it comes to guided ordnance, inlcuding anti radar missiles for SEAD missions.

 

http://whmilsimflyer.blogspot.com.tr/2015/02/the-basics-how-do-i-fly-and-fight-in-su.html here's something I've written on Su-25T and it's weaponry about 1 year ago.

[Sryan]

It has ecm check left wing in the rearming window under pods it has the sps141

 

corrected, thanks.

[Vedexent]

They're both great. It all boils down to the type of flying that appeals to you.

 

The Su-25A is more "seat of the pants" flying, the Su-25T is more akin to a "systems management" plane.

 

The Su-25A is/was an actual combat aircraft, used in multiple conflicts over 30 years (with many upgrades), including - most recently - the Russian involvement in Syria. Of course, the Su-25A hasn't been used for all that time - but upgrade versions of it have.

 

The 25T was an experimental retrofit, which was ultimately cancelled in 2000, in favor for the Su-25SM program.

 

Su-25A is much more visceral, and you have to keep track of her and anticipate what she's going to do: "fly ahead of her". She's also a lot more manual with her weapon systems - which I personally prefer, but "your mileage may vary". As far as roles, she can't do night missions, or SEAD, but she can kill ground units like few other platforms (apart from the A-10C) in DCS can - if you know how to load her.

 

Su-25T has capabilities just oozing out of her: better auto-pilot, Skval targeting system (with night capability), SEAD capabilities (although some would argue this is "poetic license" on behalf of ED), and she can kill armor for days with Vikhrs - but she's more something you "ride along in" than "wear".

 

Ultimately, they're both good - it's just a question of what matches what you like.

[Nerd1000]

how to do that?

I think you place the CCIP pipper on the target by entering a dive, then hold the bombs release button and pull up into level flight, still holding in the bombs release. The HUD will then give you cues on how to steer so that the bombs will land on the target, and when the time is right it will drop them automatically. You should check the manual to confirm that I've got it right, as I don't fly the Su-25T.

[Darkwolf]

Su-25A is the best plane in DCS for (real) CAS. It is very manoeuvrable, fast, and tough. Its speed can allow you to escape or fight back fighters.

 

Su-25T is more heavy. It is a great plane for tank plinking from standoff range. it is overall better than A10C, but still need some good skill in SA and mission plannification, as you don't have that 360° TGP.

[Sryan]

Large parts of the Su-25 fleet was never destined to be upgraded. Only about 80 frogfoots are. The Frogfoot-A still serves the Russian armed forces including in Syria. Not to mention other airforces around the world.

 

[ame]

[/ame]

[SnowTiger]

Excellent Replies.

Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate ALL the information provided.

 

While I am pretty set on the higher-tech "T" model, I'm not sure I shouldn't at least try the "A" model ... OR Train in the SU-25 and then advance to the "T" model .... as they might in real life !!? Just Guessing.

 

I appreciate the Links as well.

Certainly this gives me lots to think about.

 

BTW - It's Odd that DCS chose to provide the more potent SU-25 free along with DCS World, considering you can't even fire a fart with the TF-51.

This is what had me confused when initially trying to figure which one I wanted to fly.

I was thinking the Purchased model (SU-25A) must bring much more to the table (so-to-speak) !! WRONG !

Regardless, I have no regrets purchasing the "A" model, if even under false pretenses (by my own doing).

 

As it turns out, I think this has become a good thread for others, who for the first time may be considering flying (and/or purchasing) the Frogfoot.

Thanks again to everyone.

[kontiuka]

BTW - It's Odd that DCS chose to provide the more potent SU-25 free along with DCS World

I think it makes sense actually. The "T" is easier to gets kills with so it would hook new players faster. The vanilla Su-25 can actually be tricky to use for new players. Just ask anyone whose tried to aim a Kh-25L on to a distant tank.
Edited April 26, 2016 by kontiuka

[SnowTiger]

Good Point(s)

[kontiuka]

oh. And the Su-25T already had the AFM from Flaming Cliffs when DCS World came out. The Su-25 was still using the SFM.

[Vedexent]

Large parts of the Su-25 fleet was never destined to be upgraded. Only about 80 frogfoots are. The Frogfoot-A still serves the Russian armed forces including in Syria. Not to mention other airforces around the world.

 

Good point - the SM upgrade program is supposed to eventually apply to more aircraft than 80, by itself, but: a) It's still ongoing and hasn't reached its target yet, and b) It applies to the Russian aircraft only.

 

There's many more "first generation" Su-25s flying than upgrade variants.

 

---

 

As for the OP - I'd recommend getting both, if you think you might be interested in both.

 

The Su-25A is a very satisfying plane to learn (in my opinion), and it's only $10 (much less if you wait for a sale, I've seen it for $2.99 during a sale).

[PiedDroit]

how to do that?

 

I think you place the CCIP pipper on the target by entering a dive, then hold the bombs release button and pull up into level flight, still holding in the bombs release. The HUD will then give you cues on how to steer so that the bombs will land on the target, and when the time is right it will drop them automatically. You should check the manual to confirm that I've got it right, as I don't fly the Su-25T.

 

Actually to use it with autopilot you need to use Shkval.

First lock your target with TV, then activate laser ranging.

Then activate autopilot, the aircraft will fly towards the target by itself (mode is called "combat steering" iirc).

Only thing left to do is press fire button (keep pressed) until the bombs drop.

 

SU-25T is definitely more capable. SU-25A is more fun.

[pepin1234]

oh. And the Su-25T already had the AFM from Flaming Cliffs when DCS World came out. The Su-25 was still using the SFM.

 

Wrong. Both have AFM

[rrohde]

Here's a good book on the various Su-25 variants.

[rrohde]

SU-25T is definitely more capable. SU-25A is more fun.

 

:thumbup:

[Sryan]

Wrong. Both have AFM

 

Today, yes. But when FC3 came out only the F-15 had a good flight model, as well as the Su-25T wich it inherited from FC2. Today, almost all FC level aircraft have been updated with good FM's, some to PFM level. This year should mark the completion with the Fulcrum variants and the Flanker-D upgraded to PFM as well.

 

Excellent Replies.

Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate ALL the information provided.

 

While I am pretty set on the higher-tech "T" model, I'm not sure I shouldn't at least try the "A" model ... OR Train in the SU-25 and then advance to the "T" model .... as they might in real life !!? Just Guessing.

 

I appreciate the Links as well.

Certainly this gives me lots to think about.

 

BTW - It's Odd that DCS chose to provide the more potent SU-25 free along with DCS World, considering you can't even fire a fart with the TF-51.

This is what had me confused when initially trying to figure which one I wanted to fly.

I was thinking the Purchased model (SU-25A) must bring much more to the table (so-to-speak) !! WRONG !

Regardless, I have no regrets purchasing the "A" model, if even under false pretenses (by my own doing).

 

As it turns out, I think this has become a good thread for others, who for the first time may be considering flying (and/or purchasing) the Frogfoot.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

Well DCS isn't a Pay to win game :) where the most powerful variant must always be bought. The T is also a bit more friendly to rookies without gear. with several autopilot modes that follow routes, innitiate approaches and hold altitude and attitude and the like. In the Frogfoot-A you must hold the stick and apply trim unless you are in stable, level flight.

 

I noticed you seem to be in a stage where you are very impressed by the realistic power offered by precision weapons. Vedexent tried to explain this in post #11 as well. But I thought I'd put the emphasis on it once more. There's two kinds of aircraft. In one of the types you have as much an office job as you are a pilot. You take-off, then put the plane in one or another autopilot mode to let it fly itself and then start working on computer displays and keyboards. You're killing enemies who don't even know where it's coming from. People who like this type of flying might gravitate towards modules like the A-10C and Ka-50. In the Ka-50 you can never consider yourself trully effective if you cannot work the autopilot to do your bidding.

 

This type of flying is fun and the weapons remain impressive for a long time, although after dropping JDAM #37584 from 25 000 feet on an unsuspecting tank the effect can wear off. Planes like the Su-25A do not have computer screens. The most important asset for this plane is you, the pilot. And how well you can work the throttle and stick. Combat is not about stand-off distances. It's about finding the target, move towards him, put the crosshair on his face and SHOOT. This type of flying is much more about adrenalin and violence than the other. This is also why you see people praising the Su-25A here, for it's speed and agility while it's clearly inferior to the T model in terms of capabilities.

 

I personally love and fly almost all machines, including the aforementioned craft like the Ka-50 and A-10. But I also really appreciate the Su-25A.

[Ramsay]

The Su-25A is in common use and the version to fly when simulating 'real' 80's Su-25 combat.

 

OTOH the Su-25T is a more capable 90's 'prototype' - with ED using some artistic licence on it's features (limited production runs and changing spec. on the real).

 

Built round the 'trainer' version, the Su-25T has degraded handling when 'light' due to changes in it's centre of gravity (spins?) and poorer performance due to a heavier airframe and heavier weapons loads.

 

When not heavily loaded, it can fly similar missions to the Su-25A including aerobatics, cap, etc.

 

Why the Su-25T is the 'free' plane in DCS World goes back to 'Lock On' days.

 

IIRC the Su-25A was included in 'Lock On' and ED couldn't included it in their own products due to licencing (time limited restriction on using their own IP?). When ED added the Su-25T in their Flaming Cliffs expansion, they ensured they could use their Su-25T in their own products. When DCS World was created, the Su-25T was the obvious choice for a 'free' aircraft.

 

Later FC3 brought the legacy 'Lock On' aircraft to DCS World including the Su-25A