Will DCS support the VR optimization of the 10xx series?

[Kirin]

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/geforce-gtx-1080

 

Nvidia really dropped the bomb with the reveal. The performance gains in VR sound incredible. Now the question is if DCS will be able to draw full advantage.

 

Any hints from the devs?

 

 

Cheers

[Nash]

The card looks really cool man... Don't think DCS will have any issues supporting it as that's the way forward...

 

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

[SkateZilla]

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/geforce-gtx-1080

 

Nvidia really dropped the bomb with the reveal. The performance gains in VR sound incredible. Now the question is if DCS will be able to draw full advantage.

 

Any hints from the devs?

 

 

Cheers

 

It's a DX12 Feature.

 

DCS Runs DX11

 

So No.

[trigen]

This card is basically all our dreams come true for its multimonitor and VR capabilities (16 viewports at hardware level), not to mention its impressive speed, obliterating the Titan X for $599. Im really looking forward to seeing developers taking advantage of it. Hope my Vive will be shipping early next month

 

Edit, DX12 Assuming you are talking about the hardware viewport capability then right? Havent had the time to check all the details on this.

Edited May 7, 2016 by trigen

[SkateZilla]

and it's only 1/2 of the Chip it's supposed to be..

 

AMD's Press release should be soon, and they are running 14nmFinFET.

[trigen]

Amd got until the 27th of May to beat Nvidia then. Always been with AMD for the graphics but their drivers keeps going backwards in terms of design and usability (multi mon)so im not very tempted to get another product. Thats another discussion though. It really depends if their feature and tech can give me a advantage good enough to ignore the driver issues.

[hannibal]

Skatezilla is the type of guy that you want to bring with you when you go buy a car.

if you dont have someone with you buy a car, u might end up buying a car paying way more than what it should financed with the dealer lolol

 

Thanks Skate for putting reason behind the 1080 release!

[trigen]

One thing about the viewport support though, they talk about World of warcraft in all its glory on the press conference so i can only assume there will be no stretching in any game where you use a triple monitor with 1 screen setup. Would then the same apply to DCS? Im assuming yes. Can you also use this capability for a 3 screen from the options with no loss in performance? Or is that the DX12 part?

 

Sorry if this isnt completely related to VR but its in the ballpark :)

 

And it remains to be seen i guess but to buy, then AMD would have to have this capability also.

[hannibal]

One thing about the viewport support though, they talk about World of warcraft in all its glory on the press conference so i can only assume there will be no stretching in any game where you use a triple monitor with 1 screen setup. Would then the same apply to DCS? Im assuming yes. Can you also use this capability for a 3 screen from the options with no loss in performance? Or is that the DX12 part?

 

Sorry if this isnt completely related to VR but its in the ballpark :)

 

And it remains to be seen i guess but to buy, then AMD would have to have this capability also.

 

if it works with DX11, then we have hope. if its only limited to DX12, its squat for us.. :/

 

i submitted a question to the Nvidia Reddit forums about DX11.

Edited May 7, 2016 by hannibal

[DerekSpeare]

What material benefits will this new card offer specifically for VR fans who enjoy DCS? Without specs and comparison tests directly with DCS it's difficult to ascertain (and an exercise in speculation at best) what benefits it will offer over a GTX980ti to make it worth the money - and the wait - for use with DCS/VR.

 

I consider passmark to be the great equalizer when it comes to hardware. Right now the 980ti is the top of the heap, and unless someone is coming from an older gen card AND the new one trounces the #1, I'm wondering where the value proposition is other than DX12. And since DCS doesn't use DX12, what's the win?

 

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

 

(NB: My EVGA card scored 11402 passmarks running the 364.72 drivers)

Edited May 7, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[Chivas]

It's a DX12 Feature.

 

DCS Runs DX11

 

So No.

 

Are you sure. I'm no techy, but I'm not sure why single pass multi projection would have to be DX12 only. Atleast the Nvidia presentation didn't suggest this.

[SkateZilla]

OK, Lemme Rephrase, it's a nVidia GameWorks Specific Feature, which is likely based on DX12_1 Feature Set.

 

which like I said, means No.

[Chivas]

OK, Lemme Rephrase, it's a nVidia GameWorks Specific Feature, which is likely based on DX12_1 Feature Set.

 

which like I said, means No.

 

"likely" isn't a definitive No either. I'ts also likely that DCS, and Oculus SDK could take advantage of the gpu's hardware/software multi projection tech even if it is a GameWorks feature.

[SkateZilla]

Oculus and HTC Runtimes arent Rendering Engines.

 

They are Input (Tracking) and Display Drivers (HMD Control).

 

The actual Rendering engine is what would need to support these things, and the press release states its part of a updated GameWorks FeatureSet based on DX12.

 

Then you have to look at the fact that it is a nVidia GameWorks Feature which means its specific to nVidia GPUs only, ED has never used proprietary engines or effects that will work on one GPU Brand and not another.

 

Look at past threads regarding nVidia and their GameWorks features (Water/Ocean Rendering, Particle Rendering, Terrain Rendering, etc etc).

 

Everytime NV has a press conference and shows off the new GameWorks effects in a tech demo users come here and ask for it in DCS and the answer hasnt changed.

 

ED doesnt use GameWorks.

 

as for Likely, DX11 doesnt support said function, so its not gonna help current DX11 games.

Edited May 8, 2016 by SkateZilla

[Chivas]

Oculus and HTC Runtimes arent Rendering Engines.

 

They are Input (Tracking) and Display Drivers (HMD Control).

 

The actual Rendering engine is what would need to support these things, and the press release states its part of a updated GameWorks FeatureSet based on DX12.

 

Then you have to look at the fact that it is a nVidia GameWorks Feature which means its specific to nVidia GPUs only, ED has never used proprietary engines or effects that will work on one GPU Brand and not another.

 

Look at past threads regarding nVidia and their GameWorks features (Water/Ocean Rendering, Particle Rendering, Terrain Rendering, etc etc).

 

Everytime NV has a press conference and shows off the new GameWorks effects in a tech demo users come here and ask for it in DCS and the answer hasnt changed.

 

ED doesnt use GameWorks.

 

as for Likely, DX11 doesnt support said function, so its not gonna help current DX11 games.

 

I have no problem with DCS not having interest in GameWorks up to now, BUT they definitely should take a much closer look at this multi projection tech. I have no addiction to AMD or Nvidia, and just buy the best gpu for the flight sims I fly. Holding the performance of this sim back to different gpus lowest common denominator is not the best strategy when VR is the future. DCS needs all the performance it can find for it succeed in VR, not doing so will regulate the sim to EAW status.

 

As I've said in another thread, that I was surprised at Nvidias lower price point, which makes me think Nvidia is a little worried at what AMD might have up their sleeve.

[SkateZilla]

Coding Multiple graphics Engine Features Specific to each GPU Vendor's Proprietary Features is not cost effective.

 

It's also the Reason DirectX exists in the First Place.

[OldE24]

Coding Multiple graphics Engine Features Specific to each GPU Vendor's Proprietary Features is not cost effective.

 

It's also the Reason DirectX exists in the First Place.

 

Nvidia game works ruins games.

[Chivas]

I agree coding Multiple graphics Engine Features Specific to each GPU Vendor's Proprietary Features is not cost effective, so I would drop the inferior graphics card support if there is a significant difference in performance. So far that has never been necessary, as the performance was close enough not to bother. We will have to see the VR benchmarks, AMD's answer to the 1080, and more importantly if AMD can match the One Pass image if in fact One Pass imaging is as effective in VR as it suggests.

[Nash]

Guys... When do you project DCS moving to DX12... Never saw any threads of such timeline.... However it would be great to hear from the developers...

Interesting since VR is the future and all new generation GPUs are aiming their products around this ...

 

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[WinterH]

DCS just switched Dx11 after years of graphics engine development, and people are already demanding Dx12, as well as basically saying "yeah I will have new nvidia card so to hell with AMD owners and to hell with plebes who won't go VR".

 

I use an Nvidia card but would never demand something like this, which is to detriment of both AMD card users and DCS developers.

 

Also VR isn't yet be all end all. There are many, like me, who do not plan switching VR anytime soon. While I am all for any VR optimization for EDs and VR users benefit, not so much so when said "optimization" could be to detriment of non VR or non brand specific GPU users.

[Vivoune]

People are not "demanding" DX12, people are wondering if it's a reasonable consideration. Like it's been said, coding for multiple GPUs is highly inefficient, that's why moving to DX11 is such a big deal, it makes optimisation for various GPUs easier.

 

I believe it's even more true for DX12, from my understanding it would benefit everyone, particularly ED coders and engineers, to go DX12. DX11 isn't the future and future GPUs won't focus on DX11.

 

I'd like to add that switching the engine from DX9 to DX11 was/is a huge undertaking, going from DX11 to DX12, although no small task, is much easier afaik.

 

In term of optimizing for a feature that only one brand of GPU benefits, personally as a developer I'd be all over it ( if it's feasible to support such a feature with a reasonable amount of ressource). Like it's been said, I'd find it counter-productive to stick to the lowest common denominator. If one brand pushes hardware and software further I don't see why it shouldn't be supported. I don't plan on buying a 1070-80 but I'd like to see full support for its new features for those who will. Same goes with AMD exclusive features.

 

I think ED, like any other developer, also simply take in consideration the GPU adoption of its player base. If 80% of it have a high-end GPU of a specific brand (Nvidia or AMD), it wouldn't make much sense not to fully support it to preserve the 20%, from what anyway?

[vicx]

People are not "demanding" DX12, people are wondering if it's a reasonable consideration. Like it's been said, coding for multiple GPUs is highly inefficient, that's why moving to DX11 is such a big deal, it makes optimisation for various GPUs easier.

 

I believe it's even more true for DX12, from my understanding it would benefit everyone, particularly ED coders and engineers, to go DX12. DX11 isn't the future and future GPUs won't focus on DX11.

 

If you read up on DX12 you will see that the great performance increases in DX12 come from having access to the 'bare metal' of the GPU. DX12 engines are harder to write - this is the accepted view at this point in time.

 

I'd like to add that switching the engine from DX9 to DX11 was/is a huge undertaking, going from DX11 to DX12, although no small task, is much easier afaik.

 

Easier to say, perhaps harder in reality.

 

In term of optimizing for a feature that only one brand of GPU benefits, personally as a developer I'd be all over it ( if it's feasible to support such a feature with a reasonable amount of ressource). Like it's been said, I'd find it counter-productive to stick to the lowest common denominator. If one brand pushes hardware and software further I don't see why it shouldn't be supported. I don't plan on buying a 1070-80 but I'd like to see full support for its new features for those who will. Same goes with AMD exclusive features.

 

I think ED, like any other developer, also simply take in consideration the GPU adoption of its player base. If 80% of it have a high-end GPU of a specific brand (Nvidia or AMD), it wouldn't make much sense not to fully support it to preserve the 20%, from what anyway?

 

IMO you say these things with too much confidence.

[Vivoune]

IMO you say these things with too much confidence.

 

Well I'm pretty confident with my opinion, they're not facts and are open for discussion. ^^

 

Anyway it's pretty hard at this point to know exactly what's the best approach in term of low level API. DX 11, 12 etc. I'm no developer but VulKan sounds more viable in the future.

[SkateZilla]

ps, AMD was critical in DX12 development, and while nVidia has a tech Demo for their GameWorks VR featureset,

 

AMD has their own version of VR Optimizing Technology, in use already by both HTC and Oculus.

[hansangb]

DCS just switched Dx11 after years of graphics engine development, and people are already demanding Dx12, as well as basically saying "yeah I will have new nvidia card so to hell with AMD owners and to hell with plebes who won't go VR".

 

I use an Nvidia card but would never demand something like this, which is to detriment of both AMD card users and DCS developers.

 

Also VR isn't yet be all end all. There are many, like me, who do not plan switching VR anytime soon. While I am all for any VR optimization for EDs and VR users benefit, not so much so when said "optimization" could be to detriment of non VR or non brand specific GPU users.

 

 

Completely understandable. But in terms of comparison, to me, the development of HOTAS in lieu of keyboard and mouse is the same as VR vs triple/double/4K monitors. It's that significant in my opinion. But as you pointed out, it's still in its nascent stage. But damn...future is looking good!