Pocket Sized Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, in the sim, the current transsonic vibration is a bit violent. Even shortly after it starts it becomes very difficult to read instruments, and you can forget about aiming anything. (It reaches these levels as low as M0.65 with certain loadouts) For it to have the same effects in real life the shaking would have to be really bad. Saturn V levels of bad. I think it would make sense to put a cap on how bad they can get to make it more of a useful warning buffet before reaching Mach tuck, as opposed to a brutal punishment for going M0.2 too fast. At the very least, I'd make the animation a bit less sharp and nauseating to look at... If anyone knows why the shaking happens (and if it should be effected by stores as it currently is) on the real plane I'd be happy to listen. I'm aware this is one of many "I feel it should be different" posts (Sorry not sorry for spamming the Su-25 forum section, I'm starting to like it a lot) DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule. In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.
Pocket Sized Posted October 13, 2016 Author Posted October 13, 2016 Yeah, so I recently did a bit of research and I'm 90% sure the shaking mechanic should be changed. The transsonic buffet is just that, buffet. Not a violent, high frequency vibration. It's caused by air separation on the wing that is initiated by a shockwave. The turbulent air hits the horizontal stabilizer and shakes the aircraft. This also leads to reduced elevator authority and contributes to Mach tuck. This means: A. It should be a lower frequency, less violent vibration than we have now. Closer to the buffet you get when stalling the A-10. B. Not totally sure on this, but I don't think it should be effected by stores as much as it is now. The primary source of buffet is separated airflow coming from the top surface of the wing hitting the stabilizer so underwing stores probably won't have a massive effect on when the buffet starts. (ie the vihkr pods severely reduce the Mach number at which you start shaking) DCS modules are built up to a spec, not down to a schedule. In order to utilize a system to your advantage, you must know how it works.
DarkFire Posted October 13, 2016 Posted October 13, 2016 I'd always assumed the shaking was due to turbulence from the weapons as opposed to mach buffet. System Spec: Cooler Master Cosmos C700P Black Edition case. | AMD 5950X CPU | MSI RTX-3090 GPU | 32GB HyperX Predator PC4000 RAM | | TM Warthog stick & throttle | TrackIR 5 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 4 SSD 1TB (boot) | Samsung 870 QVO SSD 4TB (games) | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan.
Shadow KT Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 What ever it is the effect is terrible and gives headache and you can even experience it when taxiing... Problem is that the plane its self is not shaking, it is just a camera effect 'Shadow' Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days
Weta43 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) As noted, it's the weapons ( "It reaches these levels as low as M0.65 with certain loadouts" ), but maybe (just maybe) the problem principal problem is not that it's rendered badly, it's that you're continuing to fly the aircraft outside of its designed flight envelope with the loadout you have. Edited June 24, 2019 by Weta43 Cheers.
Shadow KT Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 Definitely doing above M0.65 while taxiing :lol: 'Shadow' Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days
draconus Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 Definitely real. The shaking stops as soon as they leave the ground. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
bbrz Posted July 9, 2019 Posted July 9, 2019 What ever it is the effect is terrible and gives headache and you can even experience it when taxiing... Problem is that the plane its self is not shaking, it is just a camera effect The shaking on ground during taxiing is very unrealistic mainly due to the way too high frequency. It feels exactly like a tire failure IRL! i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
Zeagle Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 The shaking is realistic. And when a plane shakes you cannot read the instruments very well in real life.
bbrz Posted July 12, 2019 Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) The shaking is realistic. And when a plane shakes you cannot read the instruments very well in real life. Again, it's the high frequency that makes it unrealistic. The shaking is being caused by the runway/taxiway bumps IRL, hence it occurs at a low frequency. If the shaking occurs at such a high frequency as in the DCS Su-25 it means that you have a tire failure, or at higher speed a shimmy damper failure, at least IRL. In both cases this has nothing to do with the ability to read the instruments. Edited July 12, 2019 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
Mars Exulte Posted July 14, 2019 Posted July 14, 2019 Definitely real. The shaking stops as soon as they leave the ground. Shaking in general, and the occasional thump is real, yes. But taxing at low speed, no, the cockpit is not violently shaking in that video, even on crappy Russian roads they're not THAT rough. The shaking in DCS is extremely aggravating on this aircraft Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2
Dr_Arrow Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 Shaking in general, and the occasional thump is real, yes. But taxing at low speed, no, the cockpit is not violently shaking in that video, even on crappy Russian roads they're not THAT rough. The shaking in DCS is extremely aggravating on this aircraft The shaking is probably realistic, what is not realistic in Su-25A and T is that the whole camera shakes even with little vibrations, this creates an exaggerated unrealistic effect. The solution would be to have only the cockpit shake and leave the eye positioned camera stable and shake the camera only when vibrations are very strong. I believe this is how it is modeled in newer aircraft. However I highly doubt anything will be done about it for Su-25, there are bugs which were reported and acknowledged five years ago and were not addressed. Like cockpit frame bug, reversed engines, CCRP mode problems, Su-25T autopilot, etc. There is even a rumor that the whole 3D model of the Su-25A has been lost, so no changes possible... it is really sad...
Mars Exulte Posted July 23, 2019 Posted July 23, 2019 They said a few months ago after the updates for A-10 and Ka-50 are done, the frogs are due for a look. The presence or absence of the original model is irrelevant, as any update would be either textures (no model required) or total (model is canned and replaced). Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2
Zeagle Posted July 26, 2019 Posted July 26, 2019 Zhukov I hope you are correct! I would love to see some updated frogs.
SMH Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 Yeah it's nowhere near Mach 1 when that happens. And if you expend or jettison your weapons it goes away. Just reduce throttle to 90-95% RPM and it won't happen. It's a feature, not a bug. (And I think it's reasonable in the amount, it doesn't really inhibit you from doing anything. Buffeting *is* fairly high frequency.)
Floydii Posted August 16, 2021 Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) This is still an issue. I'm okay with it when flying (don't fly a heavily loaded jet too fast), but on the ground its really bad. I note that it is worse on Syria than other maps and this may be tied to how the ground surfaces are modelled. Either way, it would be great to see an overall reduction in shake during taxi.. or at least an option to turn it down (much like the Gazelle) in the options menu. Edited August 16, 2021 by Floydii
b1n4ry Posted March 12, 2022 Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) Sorry to dig this up again, but it bothers me too. It's not, that the shake exist, more like how its effect is shown. If i observer it correctly, the "cockpit" shake in the SU25T is applied to the "view" of the pilot, which makes it so irritating (especially when using track IR, probably even worse in VR). It should be more like in the Mi8 or Huey, where the actual cockpit is shaking and not the view. I think it should be changed. Edited March 12, 2022 by b1n4ry AMD R5 3600 @ 4,5GHz, ASUS TUF RTX 3070 Ti, MSI Tomahawk B450 MAX, 32GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4-3200, Liquid Freezer II 280, Corsair HXi Series HX750i
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