[FIXED] Incorrect Elevators?

Friedrich-4B · November 13, 2016

Tell me about it. I have a Hasegawa 1/48 Spit IX stopped since months ago after I discovered it's a mess regarding Spit IX features (including blisters it shouldn't). Sadly I already had worked and finished cockpit before hitting the info :cry:.

S!

Cut your losses and treat yourself to Eduard's beeeautiful IX's ; apart from Tamiya's 1/32 scale IXs, these are the best detailed, most accurate renditions available. They're also easy to build. (Eduard's latest 1/48 Bf 109G-5/6 and F-4's set the same standards)

This is one of my Eduard IX's slightly modified to represent an F.R. Mk IXC of 16 Sqn, circa August 1944. Note that the beam approach aerial (the black, semi-circular fitting under the rear wing fairing) was fitted to many 2 TAF Spitfires:

Back to the topic in hand; it can be hard being categorical about what details and modifications were applied to L.F. Mk IXs, without having photographic evidence. For example, MH727, built in September 1943, seemed to have had the Vokes Aero-vee fitted, either straight off the production line or soon after while at 39 MU:

MH434, built in August 1943, didn't initially have the Vokes Aero-vee, but it did have the enlarged horn-balances. Another feature of many IXs was the disc "hub" fitted to the wheel - probably intended to keep mud and dust out.

The only Spitfire IX's built with the original "type 1" elevators were conversions from Mk VC's and (possibly) some early, Supermarine built IXs in the ENxxx series. AFAIK, 1944 vintage, 2 TAF L.F. IXs all had the Aero-vee filter w/extended air intake and the larger horn balances. Apart from that, other detail differences could vary. For example, not all bomb-carrying IX's were fitted with the later 4-spoke wheels: this is PL265 (built circa 6-5-44) JH-V of 317(Polish) Squadron, early 1945:

Another photo of 317 Sqn bomb-laden Spitfires, on a snowy, Grimbergen airfield in early 1945, shows ML293 JH-P had the 4 spoke wheels.

Anyway, I'm not too hung up about the physical features of ED's L.F. Mk. IX for now, because such things can be modified. What's of far more importance is how she will fly.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Friedrich-4/B
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Krupi · November 13, 2016

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with your last comment.

Great pictures, particularly the whole wheel spokes and bomb ones that is one thing we don't have to worry about.

Personally think ED has three ways forward with this...

c. Early 1943 Spitfire - Remove the Aerovee Filter and the wheel blisters

c.Late 1943/44 Spitfire - Remove the wheel blisters and add Type 2 elevators

c.Late 1944 Spitfire - Add Type 2 Elevators and replace the wheels with the three spoke ones to go with the wheel blisters

Ala13_ManOWar · November 13, 2016

Is that built yours? Nice one BTW :thumbup:

Cut your losses and treat yourself to Eduard's beeeautiful IX's ; apart from Tamiya's 1/32 scale IXs, these are the best detailed, most accurate renditions available. They're also easy to build. (Eduard's latest 1/48 Bf 109G-5/6 and F-4's set the same standards)

Yes, I know, but, even though it's a modeller's plage, it's kinda shameful having already another 48 IX (ICM, not to mention an Airfix 48 I) awaiting in the stash go and buy another one by Eduard… :lol: Though probably I'll sooner or later :doh:.

Anyway, I'm not too hung up about the physical features of ED's L.F. Mk. IX for now, because such things can be modified. What's of far more importance is how she will fly.

Neither do care that much about it, but I have to wonder if those type 1 elevators are also modelled like that in FM, which I guess they are, and what are the consequences and differences with a type 2 elevator in regards of the flying characteristics.

S!

Ala13_ManOWar · November 13, 2016

c. Early 1943 Spitfire - Remove the Aerovee Filter and the wheel blisters

c.Late 1943/44 Spitfire - Remove the wheel blisters and add Type 2 elevators

c.Late 1944 Spitfire - Add Type 2 Elevators and replace the wheels with the three spoke ones to go with the wheel blisters

But wouldn't engine boost as power output change also? I don't think that's only aesthetic.

S!

Sporg · November 13, 2016

I have just been checking with Jeffrey Quill's book "Spitfire".

According to this, if we get the type 1 elevators, this Spitfire would be fitted with bob weights.

So, is the ED Mk. IX fitted with these?

Explanation:

The bob weights were introduced as an interim measure, because there were problems with Spitfires failing structurally in flight, due to longitudinal instability.

Only when the type 2 elevators, which solved the same problem, were fitted, the bob weights were removed.

The type 2 elevators gave some other flight characteristics a low speed, so the behaviour of the aircraft should be different depending on which type elevators are fitted.

Krupi · November 13, 2016

But wouldn't engine boost as power output change also? I don't think that's only aesthetic.

S!

True, the Aerovee filter and the Type 2 Elevators are more than aesthetic.

Krupi · November 13, 2016

I have just been checking with Jeffrey Quill's book "Spitfire".

According to this, if we get the type 1 elevators, this Spitfire would be fitted with bob weights.
So, is the ED Mk. IX fitted with these?

Explanation:
The bob weights were introduced as an interim measure, because there were problems with Spitfires failing structurally in flight, due to longitudinal instability.
Only when the type 2 elevators, which solved the same problem, were fitted, the bob weights were removed.

The type 2 elevators gave some other flight characteristics a low speed, so the behaviour of the aircraft should be different depending on which type elevators are fitted.

Yes, that is what I read and why I think we should have the Type 2 Elevators. Mod kits were released to undertake this upgrade in the field.

Talisman_VR · November 13, 2016

Apparently, according to my internet research:

The horns on the tips of the elevators are aerodynamic balances. Designed to provide aerodynamic leverage forward of the hinge and thereby ease control pressures in flight.

Also:

elevator horns also allowed for a wider span of CG travel.

Happy landings,

56RAF_Talisman

P.S. Just had a thought in my feeble old brain that this could be considered as a sort of power assistance mechanism.

Edited November 13, 2016 by 56RAF_Talisman

NineLine · November 14, 2016

Oh I wholeheartedly agree with your last comment.

Great pictures, particularly the whole wheel spokes and bomb ones that is one thing we don't have to worry about.

Personally think ED has three ways forward with this...

c. Early 1943 Spitfire - Remove the Aerovee Filter and the wheel blisters

c.Late 1943/44 Spitfire - Remove the wheel blisters and add Type 2 elevators

c.Late 1944 Spitfire - Add Type 2 Elevators and replace the wheels with the three spoke ones to go with the wheel blisters

But you cant guarantee it was that cut and dry, hybrids, field upgrades etc...

flare2000x · November 14, 2016

But you cant guarantee it was that cut and dry, hybrids, field upgrades etc...

I mean, he did provide an actual picture of MH434, the one ED is making, and it had the type 2 elevators.

NineLine · November 14, 2016

As I said before, ED isnt making the MH434.

DD_Fenrir · November 21, 2016

Which is it making then Sith?

If it's representative of a '44 era MkIX (which given the only appropriate upcoming map and it's current foes is the only that makes any logical sense) then it should have the extended horn type.

If not and it's representative of an earlier version then why? What logic could pit that a/c against the late war German types and the theatre we can expect?

If they are going to back-date the P-51 model to be more suitable for the era and it's opposition, why not correct - or plan to correct - an aircraft as yet unreleased?

At all seems a bit fuddled to me.

DD_Fenrir · November 21, 2016

D-Day, Extended horn type Mk.IX: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Sherman_tanks_move_up_past_a_crash-landed_Spitfire%2C_for_an_attack_on_Tilly-sur-Seulles%2C_Normandy%2C_17_June_1944._B5660.jpg