To easy flight behavier?

[Owl]

I am just begun to fly the Mirage, but there is something which disapoint me at first. The flight behavier. It feels like it fly like an arkade game, too easy to fly. If you come from the A-10 and especially from the MIG-21, it is all too easy to takeoff and land the Mirage. I don't know about the behavier in dogfight etc, but I love landings, especially in bad conditions, but with the Mirage, you can't almost do any thing wrong.

 

Am I right?

[metzger]

I noticed that too, it is very stable and easy to pull g's. It compares to mig29 SFM. But I guess it is due to the advanced fly by wire system which is unique for the modules we currently have.

Mig21 is also delta wing but it is much older so I don't thing they are comparable.

 

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[NeilWillis]

You think it is reasonable to compare a fly-by-wire modern airframe with non-flight assist systems?

 

I'd expect the M2000C to be more stable and forgiving, wouldn't you?

[QuiGon]

I am just begun to fly the Mirage, but there is something which disapoint me at first. The flight behavier. It feels like it fly like an arkade game, too easy to fly. If you come from the A-10 and especially from the MIG-21, it is all too easy to takeoff and land the Mirage. I don't know about the behavier in dogfight etc, but I love landings, especially in bad conditions, but with the Mirage, you can't almost do any thing wrong.

 

Am I right?

 

You're right. It's called Fly By Wire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-by-wire ;)

 

The Mirage 2000 is the only playable aircraft so far that has such a system.

[SirBunker]

The Mirage 2000 is the only playable aircraft so far that has such a system.

 

The F-15C also sports a flight control system with an "on-rails" feel to it.

[mvsgas]

I am just begun to fly the Mirage, but there is something which disapoint me at first. The flight behavier. It feels like it fly like an arkade game, too easy to fly. If you come from the A-10 and especially from the MIG-21, it is all too easy to takeoff and land the Mirage. I don't know about the behavier in dogfight etc, but I love landings, especially in bad conditions, but with the Mirage, you can't almost do any thing wrong.

 

Am I right?

 

And your point is you want it to be harder to fly or you do not think it handle like the real aircraft?

 

You're right. It's called Fly By Wire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-by-wire ;)

 

The Mirage 2000 is the only playable aircraft so far that has such a system.

AFAIK, the Mirage and the SU-27 both got FBW.

 

The F-15C also sports a flight control system with an "on-rails" feel to it.

Subjective comment, I do not agree.

[shagrat]

Su-27 and F-15C have a Stability Augmentation System, something like a Fly-by-wire light.

As far as I remember, rarely flying the Su-27, it only controls the pitch channel in that plane.

 

In the Mirage 2000C we have a full blown FBW like in the F-16.

Your inputs indicate what you want and the computer adjusts the controls in the performance limits... If you switch off the limiter for roll in the Mirage you can roll incredibly fast, for a short time... If you sustain a maximum roll, the plane disintegrates. Thus the Fly-by-wire is what enables you to fly the plane safely.

[Nooch]

I am just begun to fly the Mirage, but there is something which disapoint me at first. The flight behavier. It feels like it fly like an arkade game, too easy to fly. If you come from the A-10 and especially from the MIG-21, it is all too easy to takeoff and land the Mirage. I don't know about the behavier in dogfight etc, but I love landings, especially in bad conditions, but with the Mirage, you can't almost do any thing wrong.

 

Am I right?

 

It's normal. The Mirage is very easy to fly in real life. It has flight computers that help fly the airplane, giving that "arcade" feel.

[SirBunker]

Subjective comment, I do not agree.

 

I disagree with your disagreement.

[mvsgas]

Su-27 and F-15C have a Stability Augmentation System, something like a Fly-by-wire light.

As far as I remember, rarely flying the Su-27, it only controls the pitch channel in that plane.

 

In the Mirage 2000C we have a full blown FBW like in the F-16.

Your inputs indicate what you want and the computer adjusts the controls in the performance limits... If you switch off the limiter for roll in the Mirage you can roll incredibly fast, for a short time... If you sustain a maximum roll, the plane disintegrates. Thus the Fly-by-wire is what enables you to fly the plane safely.

I do not think the SU-27 and F-15 control are the same, are they? (actually asking, not contesting your post)

For the F-15, AFAIK, there are physical connections on the control surfaces and it can operate without power (F-15A to D does not even have a battery) But with the Mirage, F-16, SU-27 etc. there are no actual push/pull rods or cables and it need power to control the aircraft. (at a minimum battery power) AFAIK, FBW has no physical connection from the pilots control stick to the flight surfaces. From the F-16 stand point (and only using it for comparison) The control stick can only send electrical signal to the FLCC/DFLCC).

[metzger]

What I noticed is that It does not realy need to be trimed so much if at all, it just stays where you want. In su27/mig29 you need to constantly retrim.

 

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[razo+r]

Yeah, from the M2KC manual:

 

Elevators

 

Stick displacement: Up Elastic stop at 43.2 mm Mechanical stop at 54 mm. Down Mechanical stop at 30 mm.

The elastic stop provides a restraint that limits the load factor or AOA while allowing override during hard maneuvers.

The stick movement is filtered and reduced so that the total displacement + trim does not exceed the elastic stop unless that is the pilot’s will. The deflection order has an airspeed limiter to prevent high loads.

Flight commands are regulated to avoid high Gs when speeds are above 300 knots.

52 

 

The control stick allows the pilot to control the load factor.

At low airspeed, the AOA is the primary parameter for flight control.

The aircraft stabilization is a function of load factor, pitch angle, AOA and dynamic pressure.

 

Ailerons

 

Stick displacement: ±12º

The stick movement is filtered and reduced to maintain the roll speed limit, as a function of elevator command and load factor in order to reduce the roll speed and acceleration during high AOA and wing loads.

The aileron trim is added to the stick movement.

Aircraft stabilization is achieved as a function of roll angular speed.

 

That's how the FBW works

Edited December 3, 2016 by razo+r

[shagrat]

No, they are different, F-15 has all three channels, Su-27 just pitch... If I remember correct.

[fixen]

What I noticed is that It does not realy need to be trimed so much if at all, it just stays where you want. In su27/mig29 you need to constantly retrim.

 

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Yes, cause that is how the mirage 2000 works. It's all regulated by computers.

[ruddy122]

I like the way it handles

 

It gives me more brain bytes to use my sensors and weapons more effectively

 

The Mirage still deserves your full attention because the FBW system can protect you so far before you get yourself in a bad situation

 

If you fly precisely the jet is a joy to fly

 

You fly her sloppy and she can be a real nightmare

 

Cheers

 

 

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[viperdogsnake]

I am just begun to fly the Mirage, but there is something which disapoint me at first. The flight behavier. It feels like it fly like an arkade game, too easy to fly. If you come from the A-10 and especially from the MIG-21, it is all too easy to takeoff and land the Mirage. I don't know about the behavier in dogfight etc, but I love landings, especially in bad conditions, but with the Mirage, you can't almost do any thing wrong.

 

Am I right?

 

What were you expecting a full FBW aircraft to behave like?

[Xenovia]

Like many have already stated. Its due to the planes Fly-By-Wire system.

[red_coreSix]

No, they are different, F-15 has all three channels, Su-27 just pitch... If I remember correct.

 

The F-15 has no FBW at all. It has a mechanical auto-trimmer that tries to keep the plane trimmed to 1G (pitch only). The Su-27 has a fly-by-wire with artificially added nose-up/down movements when speeds changes. Sukhoi did this after pilots complained that they need to have a feel for speed.

[mvsgas]

http://www.f15sim.com/?page_id=16

[shagrat]

The F-15 has no FBW at all. It has a mechanical auto-trimmer that tries to keep the plane trimmed to 1G (pitch only). The Su-27 has a fly-by-wire with artificially added nose-up/down movements when speeds changes. Sukhoi did this after pilots complained that they need to have a feel for speed.

...hmmm, F-15 has 3 channels, what are the other two?!

[mvsgas]

red_coreSix,

I propose you read all the links I provided before you answer.

[kashmir]

Just try to fly it with the FBW disabled...

[mvsgas]

Just try to fly it with the FBW disabled...

 

AFAIK, you can't disable FBW, not in the Mirage, F-16, F-117...not sure about other aircraft.

[red_coreSix]

red_coreSix,

I propose you read all the links I provided before you answer.

 

LOL, just tell me if I'm wrong but that is what I heard...

[shagrat]

LOL, just tell me if I'm wrong but that is what I heard...

From the "Flight control system" document. (The link mvsgas provided).

 

(...)" it uses conventional hydro-mechanical ailerons and differential stabilator for roll control, collective stabilator for pitch control, and a rudder on each vertical for yaw control.  In addition, there is a dual-channel, high-authority, three-axis CAS (Control Augmentation System) superimposed on the hydro-mechanical system.  The CAS is utilized to shape aircraft response to pilot inputs, as well as provide three-axis damping and autopilot functions.  The CAS can also provide aircraft control in the event of a mechanical system failure"(...)