Introducing the VPC MongoosT-50

[PabstBleuRibbon]

Although now i have a small *thunk* whenever i go from pitch up to pitch down right after i hit center. This happens with a small sticktion feel. Like those horrendous saitek springs which made me overshoot the bead on ones canopy. Its not as bad though but i may have bad cams or there is something wrong with the spring. It sounds like a spring issue. Upping the tension doesnt really help.

 

Try tightening the lower grip screws, I had the same issue, it was "clunking" around the WH grip adapter. Tightening the lower grips bolts helped with that. Don't overdo it though, I think they might be easy to strip. If it happens again I'll take the grip apart and look at if there's a way to shim it to keep the clunk from happening, as it's really annoying.

 

Below are some graphs with VKB_Joytester and DXTweak. It's good to go after calibration, mine has a lot of small noise around center, so 1-2% deadzones helped in DXTweak to get that to go away.

 

So far my fav application has been flying the MiG-21 with the T-50, feels like it was meant for it! I have the medium springs, soft-center cams, and 50mm extension. With how the spring tension works I can almost judge AoA by feel, great stuff!

[LeCuvier]

The Warthog grip is a heavy beast. I'm using the medium spring with the soft cam. No extension. I have tightened the pitch spring as much as I could without it requiring too much force. There is still a very small zone around the center where it doesn't feel quite right, but it does not cause a problem flying the F-5. I will not change springs because the "hard" spring would not feel right with the MT-50 grip.

For the WWII birds I will continue using the MT-50 grip. Maybe one day VPC comes up with a "modern" grip that can the replace the WH grip without being so heavy. I might buy that.

 

PS

[LeCuvier]

... The MT-50 Grip Manual and Base Quick Start is posted on the site already. The priority at the moment is our own products, but I will work on adding your requests to the site as soon as I can :)

Where? I have looked again and I have not seen a download page. If documents are hidden somewhere in a forum thread - that's not a solution.

By the way, I had downloaded the two documents you mentioned from this forum, but they did not contain button ID's.

[kingpinda]

@WindyTx I used it stock. Haven't seen the innards yet but of course it could have been assembled too loosely. I'll check

 

@pabstblueribbon: which screws do you mean? On the Warthog grip itself?? The sound most definitely comes from the gimbal not the grip itself. I also feel the springs tensing up. At extremes it's perfect but re-centering and then going to opposite direction makes noise and feels clunky and gives a bit of sticktion.

[LeCuvier]

Brake lever axis working

 

I had a remote intervention of a VPC engineer via TeamViewer today, and now the brake lever axis is working. He used some VPC calbration tools that are not (yet?) released to the user community.

I tried this with the Spitfire during a cycle of take-off, landing and taxying and I was very satisfied. I fly the Spit extremely rarely but I had no problem at all. The analog brake lever makes taxying much more manageable.

So I'm happy!

PS: also the in-flight handling with the T-50 is very easy. People who moan about the difficult handling of the Spit should buy this stick!

Edited September 4, 2017 by LeCuvier

[PabstBleuRibbon]

@pabstblueribbon: which screws do you mean? On the Warthog grip itself?? The sound most definitely comes from the gimbal not the grip itself. I also feel the springs tensing up. At extremes it's perfect but re-centering and then going to opposite direction makes noise and feels clunky and gives a bit of sticktion.

 

ah, sorry I thought you were using the T50 grip. Not sure where your clunk would be coming from in that case, hope you find a solution!

[kingpinda]

I found several culprits why my base is acting a bit clunky.

 

1 it seems that the installed cams are the only cams not polished as can be seen on photo 1. I'll be emailing Virpil for a replacement.

 

2 the wires above the gimbal DO interfere with my base. the wires are very loose and when i pitch up i hear tiktik SCREECH. because they are too loose they get caught in the metal opening. hard to explain in words. I solved this by putting a plastic washer RIGHT underneath the DIN connector where you connect the stick or extension cord for an extension. This way there is less slack and the wire doesnt grip in the hole.

 

3 I presumed the springs were at fault but couldnt find anything. So i just gave it a bit of WD40.

 

4 this is the most troublesome point for me because I am now reluctant to use the stick out of fear i might break something.

As you can see in picture 2 just below the wiring there is a philips screw not entirely recessed. in picture 3 you can see that the screw isnt even touching the thread on the other side! its through the first thread, maybe slightly in the pole which goes horizontally to the sensor but not in the next thread to secure it all in place. I think this is were the *Thunk* with a sticktion feel comes from when pitching down.

 

I tried figuring out how to rectify this but i presume that the pivot is lowered and then the horizontal pole is pushed through it and only then the philips screw is fastened. I have no tools to fasten this screw in that location under that angle :(

 

I can do some hobby work but dismantling the entire thing would be daunting for someone like me..

 

Please advise.

[Cyph3r]

Where? I have looked again and I have not seen a download page. If documents are hidden somewhere in a forum thread - that's not a solution.

By the way, I had downloaded the two documents you mentioned from this forum, but they did not contain button ID's.

 

Hi, they're posted on the product pages as well as stickied on the VPC Hardware Forum. We're currently adding a Support page to hold everything.

 

https://virpil.by/en/shop/grips/vpc-mangoost-50-grip-vpc

 

https://virpil.com/en/forum/vpc-hangar/86-vpc-mongoost-50-base-quick-start-guide

 

https://virpil.com/en/forum/vpc-hangar/85-vpc-mongoost-50-grip-button-map-template

 

 

I had a remote intervention of a VPC engineer via TeamViewer today, and now the brake lever axis is working. He used some VPC calbration tools that are not (yet?) released to the user community.

I tried this with the Spitfire during a cycle of take-off, landing and taxying and I was very satisfied. I fly the Spit extremely rarely but I had no problem at all. The analog brake lever makes taxying much more manageable.

So I'm happy!

PS: also the in-flight handling with the T-50 is very easy. People who moan about the difficult handling of the Spit should buy this stick!

 

Glad to hear it's all sorted now and you're enjoying the MT-50! :thumbsup:

 

 

I found several culprits why my base is acting a bit clunky.

 

1 it seems that the installed cams are the only cams not polished as can be seen on photo 1. I'll be emailing Virpil for a replacement.

 

2 the wires above the gimbal DO interfere with my base. the wires are very loose and when i pitch up i hear tiktik SCREECH. because they are too loose they get caught in the metal opening. hard to explain in words. I solved this by putting a plastic washer RIGHT underneath the DIN connector where you connect the stick or extension cord for an extension. This way there is less slack and the wire doesnt grip in the hole.

 

3 I presumed the springs were at fault but couldnt find anything. So i just gave it a bit of WD40.

 

4 this is the most troublesome point for me because I am now reluctant to use the stick out of fear i might break something.

As you can see in picture 2 just below the wiring there is a philips screw not entirely recessed. in picture 3 you can see that the screw isnt even touching the thread on the other side! its through the first thread, maybe slightly in the pole which goes horizontally to the sensor but not in the next thread to secure it all in place. I think this is were the *Thunk* with a sticktion feel comes from when pitching down.

 

I tried figuring out how to rectify this but i presume that the pivot is lowered and then the horizontal pole is pushed through it and only then the philips screw is fastened. I have no tools to fasten this screw in that location under that angle :(

 

I can do some hobby work but dismantling the entire thing would be daunting for someone like me..

 

Please advise.

 

Hi Kingpinda, I've replied to your email already but I'll summarize here as well:

 

1. Cams are a known issue - we'll send you out a new set of cams ASAP.

 

2. I haven't heard of this wire causing an issue before - I'll look into it with the team but from what I understand you've resolved it yourself satisfactorily?

 

3. The MT-50 requires no lubrication. Please don't spray anything onto the MT-50! Please!

 

4. This is potentially the issue - I had forwarded this on to the team and I'll get an answer for you ASAP!

Edited September 4, 2017 by Cyph3r

[Cyph3r]

I don't think that screw is the issue, it simply goes up against a flat portion on the axle to make sure it rotates along with the rest for the sensor.

 

Have you made sure the cam is attached securely, I had something similar but retightening the cam screws fixed it.

 

kingpinda, could you try re-tightening the cam screws just to confirm?

[kingpinda]

kingpinda, could you try re-tightening the cam screws just to confirm?

 

I'll try to find time tonight and report back. I hope I have such a small hex or torque drivers else it will be tomorrow when I have been to the hardware store.

[Cyph3r]

I'll try to find time tonight and report back. I hope I have such a small hex or torque drivers else it will be tomorrow when I have been to the hardware store.

 

I've spoken with the team and the screw you're referring to ensures the sensor rotates with the stick (as Vladinsky said). If there were an issue with this, the joysticks axis response would be all over the place!

 

So it seems like you just need to tighten up the cams. Also as mentioned your new cam set will be dispatched ASAP (I just need you to send me your order number as requested by email!)

[FraserNZL]

Hey Cyph3r. I've sent you an email about my shipment

[Cyph3r]

Hey Cyph3r. I've sent you an email about my shipment

 

Replied :)

[kingpinda]

I've spoken with the team and the screw you're referring to ensures the sensor rotates with the stick (as Vladinsky said). If there were an issue with this, the joysticks axis response would be all over the place!

 

So it seems like you just need to tighten up the cams. Also as mentioned your new cam set will be dispatched ASAP (I just need you to send me your order number as requested by email!)

 

 

Thanks for troubleshooting with me :) It appears it was indeed the pitch cam not being securely fastened. When opened i could even turn it by hand a few times. strangely this only became apparent when I started adjusting the springstrength.

 

Pitch axis is solved. roll axis still some noise but couldnt secure it any further. Probably coarse cams.

 

just a little feedback, as someone else I think also indicated, the circuit board is really weirdly fixated. I removed 2 screws. down came 2 nuts and washers.

 

when i went and put it all back together I had 3 nuts.. apparently those 2 nuts were used as spacers and the third nut fell off behind a piece of tie-wrap over the circuitboard. luckily the other nut was still behind the tie-wrap. I cannot help but feel that there is a more efficient and user friendly way to fix those things.

 

Also the hex/allen screws in the cams are not great quality and very small. I see why there are spares in the cam bag. My hand hex could barely dig into the screw and i had to use my battery screw driver on lowest setting to fasten it. One screw i know i need to replace if i get it out when my new cams arrive. nuts and bolts would have worked better in that scenario I think. But it probably needs to be as recessed as possible because of space restriction.

 

thanks again for all the help and info though. Ill put up with a bit of noise from the roll axis untill my new cams arrive :)

[Cyph3r]

Thanks for troubleshooting with me :) It appears it was indeed the pitch cam not being securely fastened. When opened i could even turn it by hand a few times. strangely this only became apparent when I started adjusting the springstrength.

 

Pitch axis is solved. roll axis still some noise but couldnt secure it any further. Probably coarse cams.

 

just a little feedback, as someone else I think also indicated, the circuit board is really weirdly fixated. I removed 2 screws. down came 2 nuts and washers.

 

when i went and put it all back together I had 3 nuts.. apparently those 2 nuts were used as spacers and the third nut fell off behind a piece of tie-wrap over the circuitboard. luckily the other nut was still behind the tie-wrap. I cannot help but feel that there is a more efficient and user friendly way to fix those things.

 

Also the hex/allen screws in the cams are not great quality and very small. I see why there are spares in the cam bag. My hand hex could barely dig into the screw and i had to use my battery screw driver on lowest setting to fasten it. One screw i know i need to replace if i get it out when my new cams arrive. nuts and bolts would have worked better in that scenario I think. But it probably needs to be as recessed as possible because of space restriction.

 

thanks again for all the help and info though. Ill put up with a bit of noise from the roll axis untill my new cams arrive :)

 

Hi kingpinda - I'm glad it's sorted now! Yes your new cams set should resolve that remaining noise you have. :thumbup:

 

How are you finding the MT-50 otherwise? :pilotfly:

[kingpinda]

Hi kingpinda - I'm glad it's sorted now! Yes your new cams set should resolve that remaining noise you have. :thumbup:

 

How are you finding the MT-50 otherwise? :pilotfly:

 

Been flying a bit of huey and p51D mostly.

 

Initially I thought the medium springs were to stiff. At that point I thought I would have liked a more balanced cam. One that isn't so stiff at the extremes. But when flying the P51-D it became apparent that the further you travel the stiffer the stick gets is very handy for the p51-D. Usually I would lose control very soon over the craft because I would be flying outside its envelope parameters. Now I can better fly at the crafts limits. Still suck at dogfighting AI (VIRPIL I THOUGHT I WOULD BE AN ACE WITH THIS BASE j/k) but now and again i can get a bead on them and even turn fight without falling out of the sky. I did my first Split-S boom and zoom and hit the bf-109 this afternoon!

 

Taking off and landing is excellent! so much control and the warthog with extension feel so good on your base! very sensitive inputs when the springs are tuned just right. I fly with a bit more slack on pitch than on roll. So the warthog dips ever so slightly according to the axis readout. This is ofcourse mitigated with trim on the craft but its a joy to fly those WWII crates!

 

With the Huey the stick works great as well. I don't trim anymore since I said goodbye to my logitect G940. Still with the relative stiffness of the springs I can cruise relaxed with two fingers at the base of the stick and when i need to make more aggresive manuevers I firmly grip it.

 

SOOO much better than the Warthog Gimbal! Complements the Warthog stick with extension beyond measure!

 

now to find some time to make a decent cockpit with a carseat because i can imagine myself sitting behind this stick for hours on end!

 

More flying Please! :pilotfly:

Edited September 7, 2017 by kingpinda

[hughlb]

Can someone recommend a realistic cam and spring choice for a modern fighter (su-27, f/a-18 etc), and a cam/spring choice for a ww2 fighter? For use with the extension and Virpil grip of course. I'm interested in comparative weights and center friction

[WindyTX]

Realistic is a bit of a miss as our sticks dont work in a realistic way. Now I use the medium spring and the 2 dot soft center cam its pretty much good for everything and this is how they now ship . I do use a rather long 30cm extension. The center force can be adjusted on the fly, I have it set so its enough to just center the stick if I relax my grip so the Aircraft will track once trimmed. For Helo flying it is soft enough not to upset a transition through center.

WW2 I use the same settings , for me fixed wing is fixed wing.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Bogey Jammer]

I would never use a FHC conical head screw for attaching a circuit board or anything else not prepared for that kind of head. Seriously that looks so amateurish :doh:

 

And please use a proper tool for chamfering holes, they're looking butchered by a loose drill bit.

[98abaile]

So I've just had my replacement cams and I'm ready to give some feedback. I'll start with the negative so that I can end on a positive.

 

The replacement cams arrived today and sadly they are still a major disappointment. It seems the factory's idea of polishing leaves a lot to be desired.

It looks like someone was in a rush and only touched the wheel to one part of the cam. These are the 4 dot cams, but the other cams aren't much different. The 1 dot cams for example are "polished"; at either end but not in the middle. On the bright side though the cams actually fit quite easily this time, so at least that works.

 

After installing the cams I tested them out and found them to be rough and very noisy again. So I decided to try polishing them myself, I started with 400 grit paper and then went to 1200 grit and the difference is obvious:

 

However sadly polishing the cams only helped highlight bad machining (albeit slightly less noticeable that on the original cams); whatever is being used to cut out the cams is possibly trying to cut too fast or at too low RPM, either way it's creating a bumpy surface (seen above) and gouging out the material (see below). I also noticed that the cam surface has a slight bevel to it.

 

Polishing them seemed to get rid of most of the problems; almost all of the noise is gone and they are pretty smooth now, some lithium grease also helped; however I did notice when reassembling them, that the original rough cams had done some minor wear to the roller bearing surface, which was disappointing. If anyone is still using theirs with the original cams, I suggest you stop until properly finished replacements arrive.

Sadly as a result of having to polish the cams myself, the stick leans very slightly left and back (I don't exactly have machine precision), so I'll have to try polishing them again until the center is correct.

 

So far this debacle with the cams has been a very bad experience that's left me very disappointed.

 

On to the positives though, everything else is pretty great.

I like the stick, it feels comfortable and very professionally made. I would like to see some sort of flange on the pin connector at the base though since I don't like pulling things out by their wires. Also I'd like to know if there is a software to calibrate the stick? Windows calibration tool works fine up until you try to calibrate the Z axis. Since actuating the Z axis also activates a button simultaneously, it ends that calibration procedure before you can fully calibrate the axis, leading to weird results.

 

My favorite thing or things however are the mounts which are amazing. Seeing how sturdy they were in a video is one of the things that tipped the balance for me in favour of virpil over vkb (the other was it being plug and play with my warthog grip). Actually having them in person has impressed me even more and I would suggest to anyone looking for mounting options, even if they aren't interested in a VPC stick, to go with the VPC mounts. I have 2, one for the stick and one for my WH throttle. They are relatively easy to put together although they do need a spanner and set of hex keys. Once everything is put together and in place, clamped to the desk, they are rock solid with very little flex.

Interestingly, the mounting plate for the warthog throttle can be used by either bolting the warthog directly on top with provided nuts and bolts or, as I have done, completely replace the base plate of the throttle (although it should be noted that the head of one of the screws is slightly obstructed by the mounting bracket, which must be attached to the plate first before mounting the throttle).

 

An idea people might like to consider with them (assuming you have 2 or more) is to connect them with M8 threaded bars. Having done this, what little flex there is disappears completely and they become even quicker to mount to your desk.

I will definitely be buying another mount and using it as a mouse mat on my right. At some point I also plan to use the threaded bar to mount TM MFDs and maybe some button panels. It might start getting a bit heavy at that point though, so I'm also considering adding a "leg" or several to help with maneuvering it onto the desk edge while taking some of the weight and perhaps allow a standoff to help position my pedals correctly.

 

In summary:

The cams are still a huge disappointment.

The stick is pretty good.

The desk mounts are AMAZING!

[dburne]

Still waiting on my replacement cams here, so looking forward to putting the soft center cams in. If mine arrive like that as well, I am not going to be happy with that...

[Bogey Jammer]

 

These parts are laser cut. You'll need a powered grit wheel to get rid of the surface imperfections, at the risk to alter the curvature too much.

 

I'm now totally skeptical of the ability of Virpil to perform decent work. Chinese crap is unreliable and weak, but it at least their products look like well done in appearance. Virpil clearly doesn't care about anything in their product manufacture, and totally lacks of customer respect with such obviously bad execution (may I say sabotage ?). No wonder there were faults to correct at the beginning, I can't imagine how borked the first faulty batch was :music_whistling:

 

Virpil, you don't want the market to kill you so soon ? you know, the International market, not the little local cheesy one you're used to.

 

I ordered nothing yet so I personally don't need excuses. I may change my mind in the future if Virpil manages to survive and get in line with quality expectations. I feel bad for such promising line-up to be a failure.

[Cyph3r]

In summary:

The cams are still a huge disappointment.

The stick is pretty good.

The desk mounts are AMAZING!

 

Hi 98abile,

 

Yes I would agree that those cams are not acceptable and I'm not expecting you to stick with them. Can you send me an email to sale@virpil.com with your order number and a note about this, I will get you another set sent out right away. I'm also looking into the issue with the team.

 

I'm glad you're happy with everything else so far though! We'll get this cams issue sorted don't worry. :thumbup:

 

I want to emphasise to everyone that if you're not happy with anything regarding your VPC products, including your cams, replacement cams etc, email me and we'll get it sorted! We will not leave anyone unhappy with their order!

Edited September 8, 2017 by Cyph3r

[Pajeka]

New cams (although not sparkly and shiny) fitted, really pleased, gobsmacked at performance improvement. Look forward to feedback from other actual product purchasers with new cams - hoping they see similar improvements!

[FraserNZL]

Hey guys anyone know how to get the Brake axis working??