Sometimes my A-10C is too slow!

[GazAce]

Hi good people. I'm just wondering if anyone has had any issues with speed and power in some missions. I'm trying to complete a mission titled CSAR and my aircraft performs really poorly. It's actually a great little mission where you have to co-ordinate with SANDY ( UH-60 ) a rescue of an F-16C Pilot that's gone down behind enemy lines in a very mountainous region. I did complete the task but unfortunately tried to make it back but couldn't get over the mountains, stalled and didn't eject in time so phhhft. It starts off at a speed around 190kts and that's with my throttle at max the only way to increase your speed is by diving and slowly climbing but this also has its limits. I tried several test starts on a variety of different missions, all with identical settings, max power at same altitude and I also checked my flaps and speed brakes. Most missions were ok but there were variances but this CSAR mission is the most severe and most annoying because your aircraft slowly loses speed and power whether alt/hdg auto pilot is engaged or not, it doesn't hold position and will eventually go into a stall. A couple of weeks ago I purchased the Thrustmaster HOTAS A-10C Warthog Throttle and Stick set up and man oh man I'm still blown away, I have everything slaved to my liking on it and it's working beautifully, this thing is crazy good but in regards to this power and speed issue, I'm kinda hoping it's just a bug in the mission and not something I'm doing wrong. Anyone else experienced this one? Regards G

[Deezle]

I don't recall, does that mission start you with 100% fuel? It seems like most of them do. I'd recommend editing the payload before the mission starts and reducing your fuel load. I rarely ever load more than 75%, even on cold start missions with 100+nm flights to the AO. Also I'd suggest jettisoning any triple ejector/launch racks that remain on the aircraft after you've used your munitions.

 

Also, get more altitude before you reach the mountains, turn around and climb more if you have to.

[GazAce]

Thanks Deezle, appreciate the tips brother.

[Yurgon]

Hadn't flown this mission in a long while, so I just fired it up (and failed miserably - according to the debriefing, the downed pilot was KIA 7 minutes into the mission. So much for my Sandy karma :music_whistling:).

 

Anyway, while the player aircraft is really heavy at 102% max gross weight at mission start, it's still quite controllable, it can still climb and turn. It's definitely not nimble, but it won't just fall outta the sky either. ;)

 

GazAce, from your description it sounds as if there's something really wrong. But it's hard to tell whether there's a problem with your mission, or whether you're just doing it wrong. Can you post a track?

[EasyEB]

First, make absolutely sure your throttle is callibrated to go all the way forward. Map keys to Throttle Forward and see if you can deive it farther with the keys than with the throttle. I can hook you up sith callibration software if you need.

 

Second, tripple check the speed brake.

 

Third, don't fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are not used on the A-10C and unrealistic in a combat environment (yeah, I said it. Oh, and that one time in OIR with one TER of GBU-12 doesn't count).

 

Fourth, don't fly mission that require you to fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are bullshit missions and a waste of the sim. Move on to something else.

[GazAce]

Hey Yurgon , thanks man. I just tried that mission again today but this time I loaded only %70 fuel and man oh man whatta difference! More power and speed. I didn't have time to carry on with it as I had to rush out here but I will try again now and see what happens. Will let you know if it's better or what, seems much better tho. Cheers G

[GazAce]

First, make absolutely sure your throttle is callibrated to go all the way forward. Map keys to Throttle Forward and see if you can deive it farther with the keys than with the throttle. I can hook you up sith callibration software if you need.

 

Second, tripple check the speed brake.

 

Third, don't fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are not used on the A-10C and unrealistic in a combat environment (yeah, I said it. Oh, and that one time in OIR with one TER of GBU-12 doesn't count).

 

Fourth, don't fly mission that require you to fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are bullshit missions and a waste of the sim. Move on to something else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for those tips Easy, much appreciated brother

[tintifaxl]

...

 

Fourth, don't fly mission that require you to fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are bullshit missions and a waste of the sim. Move on to something else.

 

I beg to differ. i.e. The DLC campaign Operation Piercing Fury makes use of these weapon loadouts and provides a fantastic single player experience (for me).

[NoJoy]

I'm not sure whats the weather in this mission is about, especially temperature.

Temperatur does have a huge impact on the performance of your engines and so to your whole flight envelope.

[apolloace]

............................

 

Fourth, don't fly mission that require you to fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are bullshit missions and a waste of the sim. Move on to something else.

 

What are the drawbacks of having TERs in missions, other than the high drag index?

 

Can you please elaborate EasyEB?

As I am not an expert in this, It would be really helpful to know. :)

[Yurgon]

Third, don't fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are not used on the A-10C and unrealistic in a combat environment (yeah, I said it. Oh, and that one time in OIR with one TER of GBU-12 doesn't count).

 

Fourth, don't fly mission that require you to fly with LAU-88s or TERs. They are bullshit missions and a waste of the sim. Move on to something else.

 

As I understand it, they're not commonly used on the A-10C, but there's no technical reason not to use either TERs or LAU-88s.

 

A typical CAS loadout as seen in Afghanistan or Iraq wouldn't use either of these racks. If A-10s were used in a higher intensity conflict, I wouldn't be surprised to see these draggy racks come back to active use.

 

Of course, with LAU-88, AFAIK the inside launcher doesn't usually get loaded to protect the landing gear from the Maverick exhaust, and the outer launcher doesn't get loaded if a TGP is mounted on the station next to it, so this actually seems like a mistake in this mission.

 

Anyway, it's a mission that's supplied with the A-10C module. These missions aren't overly realistic, but they offer a nice introduction once a pilot has the basics down, in order to fly in an actual battle environment and put all the training lessons to use, and also figure out which areas need more learning. I wouldn't discourage people from flying these missions entirely.

[EasyEB]

Look, the way I see it riding out for WW3 with a maxed out bird is counterproductive.

 

1. You train with a heavy plane, and develop an incorrect feel for how the plane handles, unless these are the only types of missions that you are going to play.

 

2. You become over dependant on ordnance and will work harder, not smarter.

 

3. You take these two things with you and teach them to new players who think that crashing into mountains because you couldn't gain enough altitude is normal. And also, go on making missions like that, where you need six Mavs to do your own SEAD and truckloads of bombs to finish of the batallions of tanks that you alone must face.

 

But like I said, to each their own. For me, it's quality over quantity when it comes to ordnance and it's employment. But I know alot of others who want as many things as possible to go boom.

[Yurgon]

Look, the way I see it riding out for WW3 with a maxed out bird is counterproductive.

 

Depends on whether or not you're fighting in WW3. :P

 

1. You train with a heavy plane, and develop an incorrect feel for how the plane handles, unless these are the only types of missions that you are going to play.

 

The difference in aircraft handling based on weight, altitude, temperature and so on, that's one of the strengths of DCS IMO. I don't think there's such a thing as developing an incorrect feel for a heavy aircraft. On the contrary, the more familiar a player is with different loadouts the easier he will be able to handle such situations in the future. And maybe then it's not heavy, but hot and high, which might feel quite similar anyway.

 

2. You become over dependant on ordnance and will work harder, not smarter.

 

I kinda agree, but in DCS there's only so much a pilot can achieve with a given loadout, especially with the suicidal and incompetent AI wingmen we've had for such a long time. In a single player mission, I'd rather load a few extra Mavs and deal with the drag than be given an extra wingman.

 

3. You take these two things with you and teach them to new players who think that crashing into mountains because you couldn't gain enough altitude is normal. And also, go on making missions like that, where you need six Mavs to do your own SEAD and truckloads of bombs to finish of the batallions of tanks that you alone must face.

 

I'm sorry, but what are you even talking about?

 

It's a stock mission. It comes with the A-10C. Blame the author all you want, but as long as this mission is bundled with the module, I think it's not helpful telling people they chose the wrong mission for their learning experience.

 

And while I agree that this mission, like many of the other included missions, does have its drawbacks, I don't subscribe to the idea that new players will become terrible pilots because they play an entry level mission a couple of times.

 

And who said anything about crashing into mountains? Even lightly loaded, the A-10 is underpowered. Pilots absolutely need to be able to safely maneuver the aircraft. Is it honestly your point that people will crash as soon as they load a couple of high drag weapons and then maneuver in confined areas?

Once again, heavy loads aren't typical for the scenarios A-10s have been used in over the past decade. But I absolutely believe that pilots, both real and virtual, must know how to fly the aircraft with light, medium and heavy loads.

 

And I believe we still don't know what OP's problem really is. Might be a controller conflict, might be airbrakes, might be lack of experience, might be battle damage, or any combination thereof. I think it's misleading at best to just blame it on the mission and tell someone to move on. I'd rather solve the underlying problem, and that's not the heavy loadout.

 

But like I said, to each their own. For me, it's quality over quantity when it comes to ordnance and it's employment. But I know alot of others who want as many things as possible to go boom.

 

Hey, quality over quantity, I'm all for it! :thumbup:

 

Of course it would help if you pointed OP towards some missions that you consider worthy, instead of just explaining that he's doomed if he attempts to play the stock missions.

[GazAce]

I shouldn't have mentioned it :~/

[cichlidfan]

I shouldn't have mentioned it :~/

 

Don't sweat it. These kind of 'discussions' happen around here from time to time. In the long run some useful information was contained in there, so there is still a positive outcome. :)

[Deezle]

I shouldn't have mentioned it :~/

While I personally don't use LAU-88s and try not to use TERs, there's a reason I didn't say to lose them entirely, because it's totally up to you, but if you do use them, dump them when you get the chance.

 

Personally, I much prefer a lighter, less draggy A-10, much more fun to fly.

[EasyEB]

And who said anything about crashing into mountains? Even lightly loaded, the A-10 is underpowered. Pilots absolutely need to be able to safely maneuver the aircraft. Is it honestly your point that people will crash as soon as they load a couple of high drag weapons and then maneuver in confined areas?

 

First post of the thread, pal.

[NeilWillis]

Any excess weight is your enemy. Take as little as possible ordnance to get the mission done, and as little fuel as you can get away with and still have a sufficient reserve.

 

LAU-88s and TERs automatically mean you're carrying an awful lot of ordnance, so you will very rarely see them used in real world operations for that reason.

 

You can even fly a mission with far less fuel than needed and use AAR to extend the performance envelope.

 

Finally, avoid tight turns, and high alpha to preserve kinetic energy. It is much more prudent to retain what energy you have, and thereby keep your speed higher. This is particularly important at higher altitudes.

[GazAce]

This is really interesting and now I am glad I brought it up , ok but what are TERs? and also on my HOTAS Throttle the Flaps have three settings.. UP , MANOEUVRE and DOWN , I use DWN setting to land yes? I use UP for take off and MVR for cruising , is this right fellas? Sorry to be a pain but it might be the reason why sometimes I drag in flight.

Edited March 11, 2017 by GazAce

[mr_mojo97]

TER - Triple Ejector Rack is a system on one pylon for carrying 3 x weapons so in the A-10c you could carry TERs with mavericks or 500lb bombs on pylons 3,5,7 and 9

Edited March 11, 2017 by mr_mojo97

[kylekatarn720]

I'm sorry, but what are you even talking about?

 

It's a stock mission. It comes with the A-10C. Blame the author all you want, but as long as this mission is bundled with the module, I think it's not helpful telling people they chose the wrong mission for their learning experience.

 

And while I agree that this mission, like many of the other included missions, does have its drawbacks, I don't subscribe to the idea that new players will become terrible pilots because they play an entry level mission a couple of times.

 

And who said anything about crashing into mountains? Even lightly loaded, the A-10 is underpowered. Pilots absolutely need to be able to safely maneuver the aircraft. Is it honestly your point that people will crash as soon as they load a couple of high drag weapons and then maneuver in confined areas?

Once again, heavy loads aren't typical for the scenarios A-10s have been used in over the past decade. But I absolutely believe that pilots, both real and virtual, must know how to fly the aircraft with light, medium and heavy loads.

 

+1 on this one.

 

I rarely fly below 95% weight and never crashed into a mountain cos of performance issues. My biggest problem is the sniper IFV s to be honest they are far more deadly than your weight ratio:d

 

About that heavy load being unrealistic issue, i think you are wrong there EasyEB. IMO its all about the cost, it would be pretty dumb to use 500k$ worth of munitions on 3 insurgents with ak s and a toyota truck with .50 cal hmg mounted on it in real life. But if you can find a way to produce these same weapons lets say for 50k$, i can assure you they would carry and use a LOT more.

 

I do like carring a lot of different weapons on the hog , you can tell me that its not the proper way or you can say that no a10c goes into a mission with that many munitions on it and probably you would be right but this is a simulation after all, i dont have to pay the 300k$ to use a cbu105. In the end the choice is mine, i can use my cannon to rain down bullets, get high and drop a bomb on the target, shoot a missile on him or get lazy and drop a cbu on those 3 tanks:d.

 

About the OP s performance issue, i think its happening cos of the afterburner limiter on hotas warthogs throttle as EasyEB mentioned on his first post.

 

I shouldn't have mentioned it :~/

 

Whenever you see veterans arguing (or "discussing" like cichlidfan said:d) about something on this forum, get involved. It doesnt matter you are right or wrong, you will learn a lot from them as i do^^.

[GazAce]

Hmm I'm beginning to understand this Forum stuff and I like it, it's pretty cool. About my flaps dilemma, I forgot they retract at 180kts so it couldn't be that so I'm starting to believe the slow performance was due to lots of munitions and full load of fuel on board as some have mentioned. And how do you jettison those used racks, couldn't find it in the near 700 page manual I've got here

[metzger]

This is really interesting and now I am glad I brought it up , ok but what are TERs? and also on my HOTAS Throttle the Flaps have three settings.. UP , MANOEUVRE and DOWN , I use DWN setting to land yes? I use UP for take off and MVR for cruising , is this right fellas? Sorry to be a pain but it might be the reason why sometimes I drag in flight.

May be this is your problem. Use down for landing, maneuver for takeoff and up for flying. Flaps create lift and drag, you dont need them while flying.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[kylekatarn720]

IIRC There should be a selective jettison option inside DSMS. Press the corresponding OSB button for your empty racks that you wanna jettison. Press and hold weapon release button on your stick.

[antagonist]

This is really interesting and now I am glad I brought it up , ok but what are TERs? and also on my HOTAS Throttle the Flaps have three settings.. UP , MANOEUVRE and DOWN , I use DWN setting to land yes? I use UP for take off and MVR for cruising , is this right fellas? Sorry to be a pain but it might be the reason why sometimes I drag in flight.

 

You do not use flaps for cruising, ever.