Developers?

[iVVChewy9141VVi]

How come its so hard to get more developers on board. I mean we have a great amount now. I always believe quality over quantity. But with no real combat sim other then DCS why don't we see more trying to enter this market?

 

I always worry about DCS dying off or something or even closing down.

 

I want to see this game grow to something really big.

[cthulhu68]

Sadly, its probably more lucrative to create some lame mobile phone game app then create a flight sim module.

[iVVChewy9141VVi]

Yea I agree.

 

I mean I think we can agree that DCS is not going anywhere in word of closing. It just will take longer to develop stuff. I respect that putting out good products.

[cichlidfan]

DCS can be a challenging environment to code for. It is not a fixed, stable, platform, unlike some others. Some coders are not willing to take on the inevitable headaches that will arise.

 

Here is a relevant quote from this forum and remember, this guy was just doing mods.

 

I am no longer doing Mods, I finally got fed up chasing the game all the time trying to update my own mods/skins and never having time to actually play it, sorry.

Edited March 11, 2017 by cichlidfan

[Yurgon]

I always worry about DCS dying off or something or even closing down.

 

In addition to what the others said, there's also the licensing problem, and some of the current 3rd parties almost stumbled because of it. Even if someone had a team of talented coders, designers and capable program managers, as well as access to in-depth real-life documentation and performance data, and subject matter experts on top of that... they'd still need a license from the original manufacturer in most cases. Imagine you're knocking at Boeing's or Airbus' or Lockheed Martin's door and said, "Hey, would you grant me a license to create a sim out of $aircraft, but I can't currently pay for it?", what do you think their reaction would be? :music_whistling: :smartass:

 

Anyway, ED used to be a lone wolf (ignoring the fact that they've teamed up with the Fighter Collection) until a few years ago. Now we've got a handful of 3rd parties and they're already providing amazing modules and enriching DCS in many ways. At the same time I think it makes sense that ED handpicks official 3rd party devs and requires them to prove that they can actually deliver before being welcomed as 3rd parties. Who knows, maybe there are another handful devs around the corner just waiting to sign a deal, or maybe what we've got is all there is. I wouldn't say we have too few, but who knows where the road will take us?

 

(FTR, I have no insight whatsoever)

[Art-J]

DCS can be a challenging environment to code for. It is not a fixed, stable, platform, unlike some others. Some coders are not willing to take on the inevitable headaches that will arise.

 

Here is a relevant quote from this forum and remember, this guy was just doing mods.

 

^ This.

 

Also, keep in mind DCS is not really as "modular" platform as it pretends to be. Pretty far from it actually. Unlike in FSX/P3D/XP addon making business, developers here have a limited influence on how and when their creations are added to the core platform and updated (as seen time after time again, when bug fixes for Mirage, Viggen and others are being made by the devs, but cannot be published separately outside of DCS updating process, causing frustration to both players and devs alike).

 

One might argue that it's just ED's right and way of doing business by keeping their platform relatively closed, but it's also a primary factor why a couple of FSX/P3D addon producers refuse to develop DCS versions of their products, leaving RAZBAM as the only exception so far.

[grunf]

One of the devs said it costs about 100,000 GBP to develop a DCS module. Add to that several years of hard work, usually alongside with a day job, and it's clear that it takes a lot of passion and determination to succeed.

[Silver_Dragon]

^ This.

 

Also, keep in mind DCS is not really as "modular" platform as it pretends to be. Pretty far from it actually. Unlike in FSX/P3D/XP addon making business, developers here have a limited influence on how and when their creations are added to the core platform and updated (as seen time after time again, when bug fixes for Mirage, Viggen and others are being made by the devs, but cannot be published separately outside of DCS updating process, causing frustration to both players and devs alike).

 

One might argue that it's just ED's right and way of doing business by keeping their platform relatively closed, but it's also a primary factor why a couple of FSX/P3D addon producers refuse to develop DCS versions of their products, leaving RAZBAM as the only exception so far.

 

RAZBAM make the necessary work, research and experience by some years to learn how DCS: W working and build modules. Actually has literally "shut down" all military modules to FSX/P3D and "on hold" the civilian branch.

 

Others FSX producers intent enter with RAZBAM into DCS: W with a 3rd party license, IRIS with your F-14A and F-15E, but I never heard from them and fall into the oblivion (someone think They lost your license).

 

The "others" with attack to ED by not make a "open type FSX product" has very vague on your arguments with press communicate very poor professional in some forums. If dont like ED and DCS World functionality and working, has a great branch's of others platforms, but dont make "free attacks" by intent impose some "facts".

 

Others coming with some projects and now have in the "Graveyard", lacking of financial, not get 3rd party status, no IP licence, lack or Knowledge, time, personal or others etc, "only the strong Survive".

Edited March 12, 2017 by Silver_Dragon

[Buzzles]

If you're talking "developers" as companies, either other teams working on other sims or various game developers, then it's a risk vs reward scenario as to why they're not coming to DCS.

 

Don't forget simulator platforms are more demanding, both from the people using them and on a technical level, so it's not exactly like you can go off and knock out a couple of lower quality items to get some experience or test the waters.

 

If you're talking about "developers" in the singular and why there isn't a bigger pool of people to make up the teams, consider you need the following skills in order to make an aircraft for DCS:

 

• 3d Modelling
  
• Animating
  
• Texturing / Art
  
• Systems Coding
  
• Flight Model Coding
  

At a high level that's the set of skills you need in order to do something solo in order to gain some experience.

 

I work day to day as a software dev in an unrelated industry, I can probably stretch to the Systems Coding, but I have very limited knowledge of aerodynamics and don't know where to start when it comes to doing a flight model. I've done tiny amounts of the top three, the non programming stuff, but I'd be essentially starting as a beginner.

 

Overall that's quite a high barrier to entry just for tinkering around and getting some experience and working knowledge, and I'd have to do some rudimentary stuff on the other 4 of those things even if my goal was to just to get experience doing Systems Coding for DCS.

 

The alternative is you make a small team of people who have the skills, but you're still lacking experience and then you start adding in all the interesting fun times of team management and working together, ostensibly for a test project which is being done for free. That's still at the whims of the above though, there might not be the people available.

 

Basically boils down to something close to a Catch-22: In order to do anything you need to have experience, and in order to get experience you have to be able to do something.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Buzzles

[probad]

Basically boils down to something close to a Catch-22: In order to do anything you need to have experience, and in order to get experience you have to be able to do something.

and the kicker at the end is the cry from the audience: "no trainers!"

[Buzzles]

and the kicker at the end is the cry from the audience: "no trainers!"

 

Exactly, although it's not an issue for the mod teams it is for anyone wanting to do a commercial product.