TrackIR or DK2???

[Muppett]

Hi guys, I am after a question answering if anyone has the info.

 

I currently play Black Shark and the huey flight models. I do this with one monitor and TrackIR.

 

My position is that I can't afford a Vive or Rift CV1 but can get a DK2 quite reasonably. So has anyone got any thoughts on the comparison? Should I stick with TrackIR until I can get the full upgrade path or will the DK2 make a massive difference that it is worth the jump. I am aware of the differences between the DK2 and CV1 - the resolution and the tracking - just hoping someone might have gone down this route already and may save me the issues.

 

Cheers

[Mars Exulte]

The prototypes are not worth messing with. They don't work that well and they dropped support a year ago.

 

It was a test item, not a commercial product. They can be made to work at present, but it's still wasted money.

[some1]

Even the CV1 is barely usable in the sim due to low resolution.

[toutenglisse]

I agree CV1 low res is a problem in DCS but with "label mod" it's really ok did you try it ?

I use it with down centered "chevron" for all units/distance (^) and it's really convenient.

For DK2 I can't say but for CV1 + label mod it's 100% good value.

[nayu05]

I am going to spend some time to answer you since I was in your exact case not long ago.

 

Like you, I have a track IR and I was very happy with.

I was very interested in VR for a while and the price was really the thing that was blocking me.

I got lucky and bought a dk2 for a very low price recently.

 

You have to keep in mind I was very interested by VR itself and not only for DCS, I really like to tweak and play with hardware in general, it is a good part of the fun for me.

 

Now my opinion:

 

I really like my dk2 as it is exactly what I needed in term of feature.

The tracking with the single camera is an amazing upgrade compare to the trackIR, (actually it is kind of a problem because I just can’t use my track IR anymore!) It have some dead angle if you turn back completely but it is fine. Having another camera would be nice but it is really not a big deal.

The lack of motion controller is a non-issue to me since I am not interested by the content available (for now I guess, but I am not optimistic).

There is no official support for the dk2 anymore but I don’t have any problem with it, granted, that might change at some point but I really doubt it will be a problem soon.

The dk2 screen are at 75hz witch might be considered as a problem but not by me, and certainly not in DCS where the frame are hard to get. I have a very good PC and even 37.5fps (with AWS) is not possible in every situation. I was afraid of the motion sickness coming with a “low” frequency but is not a problem whatsoever, at least for me. Overall I consider that the 75hz of the dk2 as an advantage and hope future VR hardware will come with customizable frequency.

 

I play a lot of racing game with it and it is amazing: I think racing game are the best application for gaming in VR for now, those game are not very demanding and the simple interface with the wheel make the immersion great.

 

For DCS it is another story.

It is good don’t get me wrong, the game itself is great in term of compatibility/setup but there is a lot of little problem coming with the usage of VR.

First the complexity of the input needed to fly is sometime problematic and being blind can be an issue even with a decently configured Hotas.

The poor screen resolution really is a problem in DCS, downscaling and AA make it acceptable but there is no miracle. The need to lower the graphic doesn’t help the visual experience (I play with no shadow personally).

 

I would say that VR in DCS is for the most part, carried by the incredible motion tracking.

That lead me to go back to your initial question, it is much better than trackIR in term of tracking (night and day really, even if it is a bit unfair to compare the two). But the trade of in visual quality is very rough and beyond the simple visual comfort, it impact gameplay heavily (missile launch detection, and detection of anything a bit far is really problematic). The difficulty to read the instrument is sometime a problem but it is not that bad (the zoom play around that).

Being blind is a little problem as well, you get used to it but it affect immersion a bit (a paradox I guess)

I see you plan to play with the Ka50 and the Huey and it is a good thing because I think chopper beneficiate the most from VR, close range perception is amazing and help a lot with all manoeuvre.

 

Now I am talking about the Dk2 it is where I stand: I will not upgrade to a CV1 or a HTC VIVE. I am not interested in motion gaming and I guess it influence a bit.

The screen quality is better but by how much, feedback go from “night and day” to “barely an upgrade” so it is hard know from all the hidden marketing/war “fake” review you have everywhere.

I was able to try a HTC VIVE (before the dk2 sadly) and even as a first experience I was shocked by the low resolution of the screen. The screen door effect was less present than in the dk2 but that was about it.

My opinion is that is it not worth it, it might be better but still far from enough considering the price. I don’t own either a CV1 or a HTC vive, it is an opinion based on what I know and what I think from it. (I would love to really try one again).

 

It all come to the price you plan to pay your dk2, I got mine for 125€ witch was a steal, if you can get one for less than 200€ it is still worth it I think, beyond I think I would have waited.

I am curious to try those “4k” headset from china but the lack of true motion tracking make it a no go (head tracking is really half the immersion)

 

That was a bit long but I hope I describe my feeling well enough.

 

TLDR:

The dk2 is really good and still functional, the feature are close to perfect for DCS. Head tracking is amazing, far better than track IR (by design, it is kind of unfair to compare) the screen resolution is pretty bad but CV1 and HTC VIVE are not good either in that aspect.

Paying more than 3 time the price for the CV1 or the HTC is not worth it in my opinion.

Feel free to disagree and express it, I would love to be wrong and play DCS in perfect condition!

Edited May 11, 2017 by nayu05

[giei]

THIS

[nayu05]

THIS

 

Interesting :o

[Muppett]

Thanks for the replies guys, much to think on - or am I in a greater dilemma!!

[VampireNZ]

To be honest there is absolutely no compareison between TrackIR and the CV1 Rift. I have been playing driving and flying sims with TrackIR since it came out..and it was great.

But that first time you get in the F-15 in the Rift, with a life-size dash in front of you and you turn around to see those wings and fuselage behind you, just blows you away!

 

Yes there are pretty big disadvantages with the Rift regarding all the points previously made, the main one being the poor resolution at the moment, (and nasty stutters in my case, but is CPU related I believe and hopefully DCS 2.1/2.5 will improve that). I also specifically got a DSD panel to bolt to my Fanatec CSW to use in DCS for extra commands (I also use Voice Attack...but using the Rift you want that extra immersion of reaching out and flicking a switch!) - and using all the buttons and switches blind is not a problem at all.

 

But honestly, all the problems with the CV1 pale in comparison to what you are gaining with VR - it is just a different world!

I also remember my first race in Assetto Corsa in the Rift and the being surrounded by life-size Audi R8 GT3's while battling on the track was incredible! I still turn to look as I pass cars. Oh and dogfighting in the Rift.....all you are missing is the G forces, cause you sure get a workout!

 

Don't forget awesome experiences like Google Maps in VR which is incredible, and tech demos like the new Batman VR etc.....VR is young and is currently the worst it can get, is only going to get better! Could you save money and 'wait' till it gets better - sure. But there is no way if I had the chance to 'decide' again I would not jump into VR.

Edited May 12, 2017 by VampireNZ

[some1]

To be honest there is absolutely no compareison between TrackIR and the CV1 Rift. (...)

 

Maybe read the first post again, because this thread is not about comparison between TiR and CV1.

[VampireNZ]

Maybe read the first post again, because this thread is not about comparison between TiR and CV1.

 

Oh wow - well exscuuuuuuuse me Mr forum police. I just thought I would offer an opinion based on my experience with VR, and how VR in general is a better experience than TrackIR.

 

My sincere apologies to the OP if my post negatively effected your existance in some way - or maybe you were mature enough to interpret the post how it was intended.

[some1]

Well, who's immature...

 

But really, the OP said he can't afford CV1, so bragging about your CV1, Fanatec, custom gear and other games doesn't really bring much useful information into discussion.

[dburne]

I absolutely love my Rift CV1.

 

However given the choice of only able to get a DK2, I would not get it.

As previously mentioned Oculus dropped support for the DK2 in March 2016, ( it was intended as a developers tool after all) and while it still can be gotten to work somewhat, there would be no guarantees that would continue to be the case.

[Bogey Jammer]

The answer can only be found after trying both. The resolution is the main issue and affects gameplay. So depending of one's game expectations, the satisfaction varies among people. I'm personally struggling with ground attack only. Everything else, and more specifically combat maneuvers, are enhanced.

In general the DK2 users were very happy with it. The return to monitor becomes impossible.

[Whisper]

Not DK2. Get a CV1 from reselling, for example.

That's what I did. Even though I'm completely in love with my CV1, I would not have gotten it @current nominal price. I don't think I can return to screen siming now, it's so.... flat :)

But a CV1 is worth imho 400$ max. So find one for this price (I know I saw a lot of opportunities, it looks like many ditch them after trying, finding the low price one is just a matter of patience). Not DK2.

Or wait a bit for more reviews (mainly using it in DCS/ other sim), if you're only into racing/sim games, then check out PIMAX 4K.

[Haukka81]

+1 used CV1 here too, max 400euros what is ok.

 

 

Sent when im drunk with my iphone near me :)

[VampireNZ]

Watch out everyone - don't go bragging about your CV1.....:megalol:

[Xxx]

To be honest there is absolutely no compareison between TrackIR and the CV1 Rift. I have been playing driving and flying sims with TrackIR since it came out..and it was great.

But that first time you get in the F-15 in the Rift, with a life-size dash in front of you and you turn around to see those wings and fuselage behind you, just blows you away!

 

Yes there are pretty big disadvantages with the Rift regarding all the points previously made, the main one being the poor resolution at the moment, (and nasty stutters in my case, but is CPU related I believe and hopefully DCS 2.1/2.5 will improve that). I also specifically got a DSD panel to bolt to my Fanatec CSW to use in DCS for extra commands (I also use Voice Attack...but using the Rift you want that extra immersion of reaching out and flicking a switch!) - and using all the buttons and switches blind is not a problem at all.

 

But honestly, all the problems with the CV1 pale in comparison to what you are gaining with VR - it is just a different world!

I also remember my first race in Assetto Corsa in the Rift and the being surrounded by life-size Audi R8 GT3's while battling on the track was incredible! I still turn to look as I pass cars. Oh and dogfighting in the Rift.....all you are missing is the G forces, cause you sure get a workout!

 

Don't forget awesome experiences like Google Maps in VR which is incredible, and tech demos like the new Batman VR etc.....VR is young and is currently the worst it can get, is only going to get better! Could you save money and 'wait' till it gets better - sure. But there is no way if I had the chance to 'decide' again I would not jump into VR.

 

 

Thanks for your heads up.

 

 

I fly DCS and P3d using TIR on a 32" 2560x1440 60Hz. When I can read that someone has a VR set that has the clarity of my monitor and has jerk free flight, I will buy a VR set. Being a Myopic pilot means I wear glasses. I would love to put on a VR set and have 6/6 vision. But no point in buying one now if I am back to squinting at the instruments....Never mind looking for "Bandits" who are 2 pixels wide..

 

 

Your system is similar to mine, if you get judders that affects the VR, then that again tells me to wait until Oculus/Vive can sort it out.

 

 

I don't think I can get any smoother in DCS, currently 90 FPS is my norm. That's with settings all on and shadows on. The upcoming Normandy Map will be my future playground, so again I think it pays to wait and see how that runs.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Cheers!

[VampireNZ]

Thanks for your heads up. (...)

 

 

No problems at all David, happy to help. Glad it was useful info for you!

 

You will definitely be waiting for a while for the same clarity as a monitor in a VR headset - don't worry I am hanging out for better resdolution too, and a DK2 (never tried one sorry) would have even worse res than the CV1. But you do get used to the resolution, especially in well implemented VR games etc.

 

I also wear glasses (hypermetropic thou and can see fine without my glasses), and find I don't have any issues focusing as you just position the headset height for focus (the lenses are curved for this). I am 41 thou and my eyesight is getting a bit worse up close so am going to try contacts to see if they improve the clarity any.

My father tried the headset as well without his glasses and literally couldn't see a thing, all blurry.

I believe you can actually get prescription lenses additions for the CV1 (not sure about DK2) at VR Labs - http://vr-lens-lab.com/product/oculus-rift-lens-inserts/

But again just more cost!

 

I believe the judders I am getting is solely related to DCS, as I just got IL-2:BOS as they have incorporated VR support now, and that plays beautifully in VR! Much better looking than DCS in general, and very smooth. It's awesome to be able to cloud hop around and through big fluffy clouds again! I really hope ED are taking VR implementation seriously, and not just thinking it is a 'niche' area - as it is absolutely the future of flight simulation. I mean I just went and got a copy of IL-2:BOS just because I read they had amazing VR implementation and performance....I am not even into WWII era combat that much.

 

But yea I wouldn't rush in if you are happy with TrackIR, enjoy that great resolution while you can! I have the same size and res desk monitor as you, so yea playing my normal games in that res reminds me how bad the VR res is lol.

Remember when you are in VR you also pretty much lose the ability to use your keyboard or see any reference material etc, which can be a pain sometimes.

The CV1 will be cheap in a year or so as the CV2 approaches/releases. It already dropped $200 or so just recently.

 

P.S - Long-time viewer of your YT vids :thumbup:

Edited May 15, 2017 by VampireNZ

[Whisper]

Actually, to emphasize what Vampire said, I got seriously in search of a CV1 because of IL2:BOS implementation. I hadn't made the move before, even though DCS had already it activated.

And the IL2 guys did an absolutely tremendous job when integrating VR, it still has the inherent VR issues with current tech (long distance blur, screen door effect, god rays), but it is amazingly smooth and clear.

 

Just a point on detection : It's a non issue even with current VR. I detect with as much ease as anyone else (or I only fly with myopic people, because I'm often the one calling for contacts the first when flying online :) ). The VR problem is about identification, and really present in DCS, I'd say. Target's shape doesn't stand out before rather short range.

[SkateZilla]

Dk2s wont be supported by Oculus Runtimes for much longer.