F-14A HUD footage + AIM-9 audio

[Beamscanner]

Squadron: VF-24

Base: USS Constellation

Location: Somewhere over the Indian Ocean

Time: 1981-82

Mission: Air Combat Training Flight

 

HUD footage starts at 3:16

 

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?t=3m16s

 

The video should be a good reference as to the raster rate/update rate of the various HUD indicators. Though I'm sure many such references already exist.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Beamscanner

[phant]

Looking at that video, HUD refresh rate seem pretty good!

 

 

Bye

Phant

[asla36]

Looking at that video, HUD refresh rate seem pretty good!

 

 

Bye

Phant

If i remember correctly, they said that the current HUD refresh rate on the HUD only represents a part of it. The different parts of the HUD had different refresh rates, and the current demo one represents the rate of one of the slower refreshing parts.

 

It would be a great thing to see a list of the refresh rates that the different elements had. Currently I can only speculate, but I think it's a safe assumption to make that elements that relied on slower updating external sensors (radar in TWS, and so on) we're slower. Where as the artificial horizon and speed/altitude readings would be almost instant.

 

Can't wait!

[Winterz]

:thumbup:

[amalahama]

Cool video BTW!

 

Regards

[RaceFuel85]

You know what's funny..I was sitting here, before I clicked on the link and said "Constellation with VF-24 in 82?I bet Bio was involved"..

 

Sure enough...

[BlackLion213]

The current refresh rate from the Heatblur videos will be the definitive rate for the heading indicator and TVV, but the pitch ladder will get a slightly faster one. Changing the pitch ladder will probably make all the difference and things will match up quite well. :)

 

-Nick

[asla36]

The current refresh rate from the Heatblur videos will be the definitive rate for the heading indicator and TVV, but the pitch ladder will get a slightly faster one. Changing the pitch ladder will probably make all the difference and things will match up quite well. :)

 

-Nick

Thank you for the clarification!

[gyrovague]

I'm working on the F-14 HUD (i.a.) for Heatblur DCS F-14A/B. I've watched and re-watched this video a bunch of times in the past (among many others of course). There is an interesting little detail going on in this video which I think is worth pointing out: if you look from 3m58 or so onwards, the target diamond seems to be off the target, and then at 4m07 he seems to get a sidewinder lock and the target diamond is suddenly on target. At first glance it looks weird, almost like the target diamond is inaccurate or something. The explanation is as follows: he has a radar STT lock while in guns mode, but he is in RTGS (real time gunsight) mode. In this mode the target diamond shows a 1000foot gun solution instead of the radar STT track... The movable reticle (big plus symbol) shows a solution at target range if below 4000 feet, or 4000 feet if target range is greater. Then at 4m07 he switches to sidewinder (with the weapon selector on the stick, not shown in the video here), and because he already has an STT lock, the sidewinder seeker immediately slaves to the STT direction and thus immediately has lock. In sidewinder mode, as in most other modes aside from RTGS guns, the target diamond shows the radar STT location, and therefore suddenly jumps to the target.

[gyrovague]

If i remember correctly, they said that the current HUD refresh rate on the HUD only represents a part of it. The different parts of the HUD had different refresh rates, and the current demo one represents the rate of one of the slower refreshing parts.

 

It would be a great thing to see a list of the refresh rates that the different elements had. Currently I can only speculate, but I think it's a safe assumption to make that elements that relied on slower updating external sensors (radar in TWS, and so on) we're slower. Where as the artificial horizon and speed/altitude readings would be almost instant.

 

Can't wait!

 

Part of it is different sensor update and computation rates, but another part is this: the HUD is a vector (a.k.a. calligraphic) display, like 1980s Asteroids and Battlezone arcade games. These displays have a unique property that raster (pixel grid) displays do not have: the more elements that are shown (i.e. more vectors in the display buffer), the slower the overall refresh rate, since it cycles through all the vectors to draw them. Conversely, when showing fewer elements, the update is much more frequent and appears smoother. The upside of a vector display is that it in effect has much better resolution than a raster display (of the era). The VDI (loosely known as the "heads *down* display") in the F-14 is also interesting in that it is a hybrid of vector and raster, some elements are displayed as vectors and others as (pretty low resolution) raster images. These days (well, for the past 25-30 years probably) raster display resolution is good enough that vector displays have gone completely out of fashion, I don't think anything modern uses them anymore. Most people now don't even know such a thing ever existed :)

[captain_dalan]

I'm working on the F-14 HUD (i.a.) for Heatblur DCS F-14A/B. I've watched and re-watched this video a bunch of times in the past (among many others of course). There is an interesting little detail going on in this video which I think is worth pointing out: if you look from 3m58 or so onwards, the target diamond seems to be off the target, and then at 4m07 he seems to get a sidewinder lock and the target diamond is suddenly on target. At first glance it looks weird, almost like the target diamond is inaccurate or something. The explanation is as follows: he has a radar STT lock while in guns mode, but he is in RTGS (real time gunsight) mode. In this mode the target diamond shows a 1000foot gun solution instead of the radar STT track... The movable reticle (big plus symbol) shows a solution at target range if below 4000 feet, or 4000 feet if target range is greater. Then at 4m07 he switches to sidewinder (with the weapon selector on the stick, not shown in the video here), and because he already has an STT lock, the sidewinder seeker immediately slaves to the STT direction and thus immediately has lock. In sidewinder mode, as in most other modes aside from RTGS guns, the target diamond shows the radar STT location, and therefore suddenly jumps to the target.

 

Part of it is different sensor update and computation rates, but another part is this: the HUD is a vector (a.k.a. calligraphic) display, like 1980s Asteroids and Battlezone arcade games. These displays have a unique property that raster (pixel grid) displays do not have: the more elements that are shown (i.e. more vectors in the display buffer), the slower the overall refresh rate, since it cycles through all the vectors to draw them. Conversely, when showing fewer elements, the update is much more frequent and appears smoother. The upside of a vector display is that it in effect has much better resolution than a raster display (of the era). The VDI (loosely known as the "heads *down* display") in the F-14 is also interesting in that it is a hybrid of vector and raster, some elements are displayed as vectors and others as (pretty low resolution) raster images. These days (well, for the past 25-30 years probably) raster display resolution is good enough that vector displays have gone completely out of fashion, I don't think anything modern uses them anymore. Most people now don't even know such a thing ever existed :)

 

Me thinks, all this should go into to manual, so we don't have people whining later on how their gun sights are bugged :lol:. I people will still whine, but alas..... :doh:

 

How many gun sight modes does the F-14A/B have?

[gyrovague]

Me thinks, all this should go into to manual

Absolutely!

How many gun sight modes does the F-14A/B have?

There is a manual mode, where pilot can adjust the pipper (movable reticle) depression on HUD manually with a knob. The RTGS mode can also operate without radar STT, in which case it displays a 1000ft and 2000ft solution on the HUD using the movable reticle and the target diamond. There is also a quite nifty Gun Scoring System (GSS) mode, where the TCS is slaved to the RTGS solution and once trigger is squeezed it waits for BATR (bullets at target range) and then compares TCS direction to radar STT direction. If they match closely enough, a hit is scored, else it is counted as a miss. The GSS will probably only be added after early access release.

Edited August 26, 2017 by gyrovague
typo

[captain_dalan]

 

There is a manual mode, where pilot can adjust the pipper (movable reticle) depression on HUD manually with a knob. The RTGS mode can also operate without radar STT, in which case it displays a 1000ft and 2000ft solution on the HUD using the movable reticle and the target diamond. There is also a quite nifty Gun Scoring System (GSS) mode, where the TCS is slaved to the RTGS solution and once trigger is squeezed it waits for BATR (bullets at target range) and then compares TCS direction to radar STT direction. If they match closely enough, a hit is scored, else it is counted as a miss. The GSS will probably only be added after early access release.

 

Thanks for the very good info! :thumbup:

 

From your experience so far, which mode would you prefer in ACM? And does the radar transition from vertical scan to STT automatically once lock is established?

[FWind]

Absolutely!

 

There is a manual mode, where pilot can adjust the pipper (movable reticle) depression on HUD manually with a knob. The RTGS mode can also operate without radar STT, in which case it displays a 1000ft and 2000ft solution on the HUD using the movable reticle and the target diamond. There is also a quite nifty Gun Scoring System (GSS) mode, where the TCS is slaved to the RTGS solution and once trigger is squeezed it waits for BATR (bullets at target range) and then compares TCS direction to radar STT direction. If they match closely enough, a hit is scored, else it is counted as a miss. The GSS will probably only be added after early access release.

 

MMGS??

[gyrovague]

MMGS??

 

AFAIK, MMGS (multiple mode gun sight) is just the collective name for the RTGS (with and without STT) and GSS modes.

[gyrovague]

Thanks for the very good info! :thumbup:

 

From your experience so far, which mode would you prefer in ACM?

 

The GSS mode is basically just an enhancement to RTGS, from the pilot perspective it works about the same on the HUD. In GSS, the computer (by comparing TCS and radar) can score hits and misses. I think this could be useful too when master arm is in TNG (training) mode. GSS is not implemented yet in DCS F-14.

 

And does the radar transition from vertical scan to STT automatically once lock is established?

 

Yes, VSL (vertical scan lockon) is one of the so-called transitional modes of the AWG-9 system, which lead to an STT lock if their pattern finds something. These are all short-range dog fight modes essentially. IIRC, the DCS F-15C has similar modes, which they call auto acquisition (AACQ) modes.

[VampireNZ]

Really nice info - thanks gyrovague!

 

+1 for adding to the manual...not too much info though, still need to have the most often spoken comment by a pilot..."What's it doing now?" :thumbup:

[Fri13]

If i remember correctly, they said that the current HUD refresh rate on the HUD only represents a part of it. The different parts of the HUD had different refresh rates, and the current demo one represents the rate of one of the slower refreshing parts.

 

It would be a great thing to see a list of the refresh rates that the different elements had. Currently I can only speculate, but I think it's a safe assumption to make that elements that relied on slower updating external sensors (radar in TWS, and so on) we're slower. Where as the artificial horizon and speed/altitude readings would be almost instant.

 

Can't wait!

 

Didn't the developers already explain that the HUD had the 5Hz refresh in A model, but it got the block update to bring it up in B (or A+ already?).

 

 

That seems to be the older one, where everything is at slower refresh rate.

So comparing what Heatblur has currently seems more correct:

[near_blind]

Didn't the developers already explain that the HUD had the 5Hz refresh in A model, but it got the block update to bring it up in B (or A+ already?).

 

 

 

 

No. The F-14A/A+/B of the era we're getting all used the same HUD. As Gyrovague described above, the HUD used a combination of vector and raster rendering, which means different elements refresh at different rates. Likewise the more vector elements present (E.G. landing mode, where the HUD ladder, FPM, radar altitude, vertical velocity and heading tape are all present), the slower the rendering.

 

 

The F-14D would use a modern HUD, and the F-14B would eventually receive a more modern HUD around 2000.

Edited August 29, 2017 by near_blind

[KL0083]

It would be even funny as if this can also be featured................ω

 

[probad]

iirc vtas was only experimented with in the f-4.

[lunaticfringe]

AIMVAL Block 80s were configured for VTAS.

[captain_dalan]

AIMVAL Block 80s were configured for VTAS.

 

Yeah, i can almost swear i've seen photos of pilots with the modified helmets somewhere, i just can't find them right now. Did the F-15 drivers get them as well??

[Ghostrider142]

There were some of VX-4 on a modeling site (as in planes), but the person chose the dark path of photobucket and they're gone. I think the Block 90's used them too.

[captain_dalan]

There were some of VX-4 on a modeling site (as in planes), but the person chose the dark path of photobucket and they're gone. I think the Block 90's used them too.

 

Alas.....such are the ways of the interwebs....... :cry: