Radar Transmitter Power Calculator

[Anytime]

Haven't yet had a play with it but it looks good :)

 

http://www.f22totalairwar.de/F-22_Total_Air_War_Stealth_Radar_Cross_Section_RCS.htm

[Prophet]

Wow, thats a lot of math :D

[Weta43]

F-22 Array Radar = 15 kW

JSF Array Radar = 12 kW

F/A-18E/F Array Radar = 11 kW

F-16 UAE Array Radar = 10 kW

 

Su-30MKI = 63 kW (!)

[Kuky]

I wonder what RCS a ball shape object would have... or a disk??? UFO??? :D

[TucksonSonny]

All you have to do to stop the F-22 is setup a SA-10/MU-300 SAM Site each 30nm in line!

With 100 SAM Sites you cover about 3000nm…

(SA-10/MU-300 SAM Site

1.23 MW)

With 1MW (1,000,000 Watts) you can detect the F-22 @15nm.

I wonder how much megawatt is a S-400 SA-20 Triumf? :D

[thesystem]

The S400 will have so much watt's that you won't be a man anymore i think:D

[GGTharos]

What a bad idea. The F-22 will drop a few SDB's on a single S-300 from 40nm, punch a hole through your 'line' and fly right through - assuming it can't just fly straight through terrain between'em.

 

Not to mention that flying at 15nm from each site, the aspect angle is poor, and a little chaff can do a lot of wonders ;)

 

There's a reason why ADA setups are not line-based.

 

 

In addition some of the peak powers presented there are ... um. Well :D Suspect.

 

BTW, the actual setups for these SAMs have them about 15-30km apart ... think the F-22 wasn't designed to cope? ;)

[TucksonSonny]

F-117 is stealthier than the JSF? WTF :D

Do we have to phase out the JSF already? :D

[GGTharos]

Just don't eject out of your place, you might be mistaken for a LO aircraft ...

[TucksonSonny]

Just don't eject out of your place, you might be mistaken for a LO aircraft ...

 

:D

 

I also calculated the detection range of the JSF with the S-300 would be 27nm or 54nm between 2 sams.

(RCS JSF 0.001 m2)

 

Anyway all the others including EF-2k are meat for the S-300…

[GGTharos]

Sure, but now I suggest you try the following: First, the air search radar of the S300 - the primary one - appears to be a parabolic antenna. So you have to reduce the gain to 30DB. Try that :D

 

Another thing you might consider is to assume some noise jamming, which will decrease the gain again by a few DB. You will probably note that it basically changes the whole game (also environmental conditions may cause a lower gain, but we'll leave that alone for now)

 

What I'm trying to say is - you're working with the 'perfect physics' formula where you've got no losses, and in the real world the values will always be less than the ones you've computed.

 

:D

 

I also calculated the detection range of the JSF with the S-300 would be 27nm or 54nm between 2 sams.

(RCS JSF 0.001 m2)

 

Anyway all the rest including EF-2k is meat for the S-300…

[TucksonSonny]

Sure, but now I suggest you try the following: First, the air search radar of the S300 - the primary one - appears to be a parabolic antenna. So you have to reduce the gain to 30DB. Try that :D

 

Another thing you might consider is to assume some noise jamming, which will decrease the gain again by a few DB. You will probably note that it basically changes the whole game (also environmental conditions may cause a lower gain, but we'll leave that alone for now)

 

What I'm trying to say is - you're working with the 'perfect physics' formula where you've got no losses, and in the real world the values will always be less than the ones you've computed.

 

Yes but you are also working with the perfect RCS of 0.0001 m2 for the F-22 flying in a perfect point of view.

Note also if you try to jam a 1.23 MW antenna or even putting your radar on is asking for a lot of trouble :D .

[GGTharos]

Actually jamming a 1.23MW antenna isn't an issue ... ;)

1.23MW is peak power in any case, assuming this number is correct (I'm still not sure where he pulled 60kW+ for the Su-30MKI ... his @$$?) so the actual power during search will likely be lower.

 

But yes, you're correct - the RCS could be much larger depending on aspect angle etc. (On the other hand, it might not matter so much at some aspects due to radar physics themselves screwing things up)

[S77th-GOYA]

I'd hate to be a bumble bee caught in a Mach 0.5 wind. That S-300 would shoot me down. :smilewink:

[Maverick-90]

I'd hate to be a bumble bee caught in a Mach 0.5 wind. That S-300 would shoot me down. :smilewink:

that missile could be used another time.....needs no warhead for a bee :megalol:

[Starlight]

holy sh*t, 1.23 MW??????? I wouldn't like to live in the outskirts of Moscow close to that S-300 sites belt... I bet you can fry chips without even turning on the oven....

[Anytime]

I hope they let women man the sites, no more boy babies.

 

ps I don't think an S-300 is going to be operating for long in a conflict :)

 

holy sh*t, 1.23 MW??????? I wouldn't like to live in the outskirts of Moscow close to that S-300 sites belt... I bet you can fry chips without even turning on the oven....

[Force_Feedback]

I hope they let women man the sites, no more boy babies.

 

ps I don't think an S-300 is going to be operating for long in a conflict :)

 

Because it's mobile, and can have basic search/tracking equipment deployed in 5 minutes, while receiving datalink info from other radars/IRST? Please leave lock-on out of real life discussions, lock on doesn't emulate tactics and battlefield set-ups.

Also there are things such as jammers and decoy emitters, so it's not like in lomac 'hey, I see a radiation source, it's spot-on, I launch my kh-58 and it hits the thing within 10m'.

 

And if some F-22s decide to penetrate that 'S-300 line' (which will never happen in RL, a 'line' arrangement of ADS), I guess that would result in some 'poplar trees' appearing in the Russian taiga, and it gets more depressing from there on.

[Pilotasso]

Anyway all the others including EF-2k are meat for the S-300…

 

You mean disarmed ones, armed ones... not quite.

 

Long range SAM's are a missconception as an integral air defense system. They will have to work as a suplement, not as a fighter PWNer, because then sooner or later it will PWNed instead.

 

There has been a public debate over here about eventualy replacing all F-16 by PATRIOT SAM bateries. Analysts came forward to dismantle the utopic dreams of those who wanted to retire the entire air arm component of the AF due to costs to the country. Some people are just plain blind. So we replace 40 F-16's by an undertermined number of patriot bateries without knowing how they will cost to buy and operate much less its actual military aplication usefulness.

 

There is no air defense like a fighter force. Thats a fact. S-300 as a miraculous remedy for lost air superiority is a joke. If another fighter has difficulty catching the Raptor sure hell it isnt the S300 that will get it. More likely it will be the other way arround if it just sits there to catch one going by.

 

In mid 70's in the african wars, soviet backed forces brought in Strellas and SAM-7's. Initialy they brought down 5 fighters of the PoAF in the first few days. The leaders on the other side sudenly thought they had achieved air superiority with their SAM's. Then Pilots reverted to surprise tree top level attacks and made scrap metal of those with guns. Sure hell they werent S-300's, but sure hell those T-6's harvards and Fiat Gr91's werent Raptors either... no chaff, no flares no AG guided missiles, not even rockets or bombs.

[Piffer]

 

Anyone knows the aproximate RCS of a little helo (Fennec, Gazelle, OH-58D)?

[nscode]

no chaff, no flares no AG guided missiles, not even rockets or bombs.

 

and no strategy on part of SAM operators

[Alfa]

In addition some of the peak powers presented there are ... um. Well :D Suspect.

 

Suspect?!......LOL.

 

How about totally insane :D

[Groove]

Some years ago i read in some magazine that the Aegis Radar has a peak of 5 MW.

[Alfa]

Some years ago i read in some magazine that the Aegis Radar has a peak of 5 MW.

 

Did it mention anything about the associated nuclear power plant? :)

[Groove]

not really Alfa :D

 

But maybe a peak output of 5 MW is possible, it didnt said for how long ^^