Landing bug?

[Fuelburner]

As soon as the main gear touches the runway the nose gear drops down immediately. No way to keep the nose up high with aft stick input. This doesn’t seems to be correct.

 

 

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[JumpinK]

do you "fly the plane into the ground"?

 

because that's how F-18s are being landed correctly.

(by the numbers of course, otherwise you gonna crash)

 

no flaring before touchdown nor aerodynamic braking after landing.

 

i think you're doin' it quite right!;)

Edited June 1, 2018 by JumpinK

[christiankirk81]

If your used to greasing your landings in commercial planes, and maybe some other fighters, you'll have difficulty getting certified for the Hornet.

 

Greasing a Hornet on landing, is a bad landing. Trust me, I had to recalibrate my thought process on approach too. The Hornet was designed to land as if it's a controlled crash on the carrier deck. The approach is the same for field landing.

[SCU]

As soon as the main gear touches the runway the nose gear drops down immediately. No way to keep the nose up high with aft stick input. This doesn’t seems to be correct.

Real Hornet flaring for runway landing, same nose 'dropping immediately':

 

Real life hornets carrier landing, touch down pretty much looks the same as runways:

https://youtu.be/VIZrZidInYM?t=56

[Fuelburner]

Ok you might be right that the normal procedure is that kind of landing without flaring but anyway shouldn’t it be aerodynamically possible to hold up the nose ?

 

 

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[SCU]

Ok you might be right that the normal procedure is that kind of landing without flaring but anyway shouldn’t it be aerodynamically possible to hold up the nose ?

I think it should be possible. There is a reddit A2A by a Hornet Marine Corps pilot where he mentioned aerobraking, and how it's different to doing it from the Superhornet. But otherwise, it's very rare to see a Hornet aerobraking, and I think it's not advised to do so because of directional control problems iirc.

[javelina1]

If your used to greasing your landings in commercial planes, and maybe some other fighters, you'll have difficulty getting certified for the Hornet.

 

Greasing a Hornet on landing, is a bad landing. Trust me, I had to recalibrate my thought process on approach too. The Hornet was designed to land as if it's a controlled crash on the carrier deck. The approach is the same for field landing.

 

 

Indeed, I'm having to re-wire my whole thought process for this bird... :)

[dburne]

Reminds me I need to try some runway landings sometime, can't seem to get enough of Carrier ops right now.

[fitness88]

As soon as the main gear touches the runway the nose gear drops down immediately. No way to keep the nose up high with aft stick input. This doesn’t seems to be correct.

 

 

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Outside the cockpit landing...notice the pitch ladder, about 1-2 degrees.

[remi]

I wonder if ED/BST had a "fix" for the excessive jumpiness of the hornet on takeoff with the catapult, and this "fix" is inadvertently leading to "sticky" nosewheels on landing when there should be more "jumpiness" at that point.

[Buckeye]

I wonder if ED/BST had a "fix" for the excessive jumpiness of the hornet on takeoff with the catapult, and this "fix" is inadvertently leading to "sticky" nosewheels on landing when there should be more "jumpiness" at that point.

 

 

 

I think the excessive jumpiness you saw quite often with the first media EA videos was because the YouTubers were clueless re: how to do a proper carrier cat launch and they were yanking the stick back while on the cat.

 

I don’t believe there was ever a flight model issue on ED’s end for this, just user error until the knowledge was spread.

 

 

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[remi]

I think the excessive jumpiness you saw quite often with the first media EA videos was because the YouTubers were clueless re: how to do a proper carrier cat launch and they were yanking the stick back while on the cat.

 

I don’t believe there was ever a flight model issue on ED’s end for this, just user error until the knowledge was spread.

 

 

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No, you can plainly see that when you touch the deck with the nosegear and rear landing gear that the Hornet "sticks" to the deck, and when you bolter, the nosewheel is "sticking" to the deck as if it's attached to the carrier deck via a launch-bar.

 

 

ED/BST updated the carrier deck interactions after those initial YouTube videos to fix the jumpiness. BTW, the FCS automatically deflects the rear flight control surfaces to maintain upwards pitch of the nose on launch from the carrier, so it's not from pilots "yanking" on the stick.

 

 

And what you're describing as a "flight model" is actually more of a wheel-surface interaction modeling.

[remi]

Also, based on what I've seen in the bolter videos, it's likely that the FCS is defaulting to a carrier launch profile which prevents proper control of pitching down after a bolter while climbing after leaving the deck.

[remi]

Why is this labeled "NO BUG" when clearly there's a problem with excessive stickiness of the nosewheels to the flight deck?

[SCU]

Why is this labeled "NO BUG" when clearly there's a problem with excessive stickiness of the nosewheels to the flight deck?

 

The OP is referring to runway landing, and aerobraking I think. The issue you're talking about should be its own other thread that clearly mentions the 'stickiness' part, if it hasn't been made already.

[JNelson]

What about this https://youtu.be/VX_122MmdsI, one touches down normally and the other quite clearly aerobrakes.

[remi]

What about this https://youtu.be/VX_122MmdsI, one touches down normally and the other quite clearly aerobrakes.

 

This is exactly what I'm looking for as a real-world example, thanks!

[SCU]

What about this https://youtu.be/VX_122MmdsI, one touches down normally and the other quite clearly aerobrakes.

 

I think it should be possible. There is a reddit A2A by a Hornet Marine Corps pilot where he mentioned aerobraking, and how it's different to doing it from the Superhornet.

 

For us, aerobraking depends upon squadron SOP. I was in one squadron where every landing was to be done like a carrier landing (fly the meatball all the way to touchdown). Another essentially told us to flare the landings to save the stress on the gear and tires, so we got good at our version of aerobraking there (because it was fun, and something a little different than what I was used to). We wouldn't get as high or go as long as the Super guys. We can run into directional controllability issues is you're not careful.

 

From here.

[Eldur]

Real Hornet flaring for runway landing, same nose 'dropping immediately':

 

This is pretty much what the DCS Hornet does when trying to aerobrake with flaps raised to auto shortly before or on touchdown. Nose up just a little, 3-ish AoA. With flaps, it just sticks to the ground completely.

[SkateZilla]

USN Flys the Hornets to the Runway the same way they do the Carrier.

 

If you're touching down at ~145, you are already below the airspeed needed to lift the nose.

 

Put flaps up, and touch down at ~160, you'll be able to hold the nose for a few seconds.