philstyle Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VNVVSteata Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) At this altitude, you are able to see a contact at such a distance. And yes, try to fly for a while without the magic magnifier FOV. Cheers ! :) Edited June 28, 2018 by =VNVV=Steata [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xvii-Dietrich Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 @Phil : Thanks for another useful video. Great for working out where the limits are. During the recent DCS WW2 event on Storm of War, our flight noticed one of the B17 formations from quite a long distance out. Looking at the map, I'd estimate, we'd seen it at a range of approx. 35 km (we were co-alt), I was using Zoom=1. I wonder if lighting conditions also play a role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firmek Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 And yes, try to fly for a while without the magic magnifier FOV. Just to give you an idea, roughtly: 27'' HD monitor: around 2M pixels, 81.59 PPI Human eye: around 576M pixels, 2190 PPI Do you still think the zoom is cheating. I could easielly do the math but I can bet that even with a max zoom you still get a lower PPI than a human eye has in reality. Stop comparing monitors to the real world. F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoen Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Just to give you an idea, roughtly: 27'' HD monitor: around 2M pixels, 81.59 PPI Human eye: around 576M pixels, 2190 PPI Do you still think the zoom is cheating. I could easielly do the math but I can bet that even with a max zoom you still get a lower PPI than a human eye has in reality. Stop comparing monitors to the real world. Human eye has an angular resolution of around 1 arc minute -> 3cm at 100m -> 3m at 10km. More or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadg Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 @firmek.. the eye is a recording device, not a play back device.. so you cant compare it to a screen. the eye has zero pixels to display an image it has rods and cones to record them... and it has no zoom lens… concentrating hard on an image does not zoom it in. even when you squint.. My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_Fenrir Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) @firmek.. the eye is a recording device, not a play back device.. so you cant compare it to a screen. the eye has zero pixels to display an image it has rods and cones to record them... and it has no zoom lens… concentrating hard on an image does not zoom it in. even when you squint.. Christ, not arguments on zoom being unrealistic again.... You know what's realistic? Imagine sitting in the real cockpit your favourite plane. Now imagine taking your gaming monitor, tearing off the frame, and throwing away the rest. Now hold the frame up in the cockpit at about arms length (roughly equivalent to how far most people sit from their monitor in their gaming set-up). Visualize what FoV you should set to see what you could see bounded within your empty monitor frame - shouldn't be a great deal more than the gun-sight glass and some of the windshield either side - and then set that in your home gaming set-up. Good luck trying to land/takeoff and track enemies in a dogfight. Zoom function is gaming trope to attempt to compensate for a window of visual expanse a fraction of what we could access in reality, compounded by the fact our gaming displays generate images at a considerably lower resolution. Unless you have a hemispherical monitor able to produce resolutions that mimic that of the human eye over it's entire surface, zoom is a required function to enable sim-pilots to access an even vaguely realistic level of visual acuity. Just to say "you can't zoom in real life" is a gross over-simplification and really only proves a profound ignorance over the subject of field of view, depth of field and pixel densitys as they apply to 2D computer generated imagery vs real life. Edited June 29, 2018 by DD_Fenrir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firmek Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) @firmek.. the eye is a recording device, not a play back device.. so you cant compare it to a screen. the eye has zero pixels to display an image it has rods and cones to record them... and it has no zoom lens… concentrating hard on an image does not zoom it in. even when you squint.. Guys, you're taking it too literally. The whole point was to ilustrate something that should be obvious... it'll be long time before the display devices technology we'll reach a moment when a human eye is not able to not see a difference from a real world. The numbers had been just to picture the gap. We're looking on a game that is rendering graphics using a far away from natural algorithms. This already different from natural picture is displayed by a device which again is not even close to the real world image quality - extreamly small resolution, color space, dynamic contrast etc. I'm not even sure if people realize but most of the TN monitors are actually using 6 bit per color - 24 bit intstead of 32 bit color space (truncating the information from the graphics cart). And in reality, you don't have to be a pilot to understand the difference. Take any commercial flight as a passanger and see how much detail you can see loking down from 10 km or how far you can see. Computers are not even close to be there. Edited June 29, 2018 by firmek F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 hi mate jsut a question? are you runing a gsync monitor and are your fps capped to 60 in some way? CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 The funny part is that when Phill says he can clearly see the B17 at 24km I can't see a single dot on my monitor xD. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JokerMan Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Phil's latest video on this topic is encouraging to see ... as it shows that the SMAA feature interferes with contact spoting at different FoV levels. I look forward to trialling this on my own setup. DD-Fenrir nicely explains the FoV (Zoom) feature. It is an important comment here as in fairness, it's not necessarily intuitive and I can understand folks misunderstanding of the zoom feature in the flight sim. (same in racing sims incidentally) The funny part is that when Phill says he can clearly see the B17 at 24km I can't see a single dot on my monitor xD. This is the complexity of this topic .... everyone's mileage varies which is the frustration. by the way, in case you mean viewing the YouTube video, then I can't see the dots either. This is down to what YouTube does when it renders the video though. S! Edited July 19, 2018 by JokerMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooman Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 The funny part is that when Phill says he can clearly see the B17 at 24km I can't see a single dot on my monitor xD. Same!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstyle Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Same!!! You can't see them in the YouTube video, or you can't see them in your game when at the same distance? On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigg Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 did a quick test of this yesterday at 1440p and seems you might be on to something. turned all my aa off and i could see contacts in the air a lot better. but the big bonus for me is i could spot them easier against the terrain when i had a height advantage, where as before i would always lose them. have you tested anisotropic filtering as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Orso Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I don't think not being able to see the B17's in the video says anything. YT process the videos being uploaded, over which you have no control. This processing could easily make the B-17's invisible. When you hit the wrong button on take-off System Specs. Spoiler System board: MSI X670E ACE Memory: 64GB DDR5-6000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Crucial P5 M.2 2TB CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D PSU: Corsair HX1200 PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27" CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15S Graphics card: MSI RTX 3090Ti SuprimX VR: Oculus Rift CV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJockel Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Yesterday i had time for a sortie on BS and the label mod was off. Didn't spot anything on my 27 inch monitor, even where contacts are reported to be, until 2 spits and me bumped into each other Tried out the single player quick missions out and came to the conclusion that unless you know where exactly to look at you wont find anything in a reliable manner. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voyager Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Christ, not arguments on zoom being unrealistic again.... You know what's realistic? Imagine sitting in the real cockpit your favourite plane. Now imagine taking your gaming monitor, tearing off the frame, and throwing away the rest. Now hold the frame up in the cockpit at about arms length (roughly equivalent to how far most people sit from their monitor in their gaming set-up). Visualize what FoV you should set to see what you could see bounded within your empty monitor frame - shouldn't be a great deal more than the gun-sight glass and some of the windshield either side - and then set that in your home gaming set-up. Good luck trying to land/takeoff and track enemies in a dogfight. Zoom function is gaming trope to attempt to compensate for a window of visual expanse a fraction of what we could access in reality, compounded by the fact our gaming displays generate images at a considerably lower resolution. Unless you have a hemispherical monitor able to produce resolutions that mimic that of the human eye over it's entire surface, zoom is a required function to enable sim-pilots to access an even vaguely realistic level of visual acuity. Just to say "you can't zoom in real life" is a gross over-simplification and really only proves a profound ignorance over the subject of field of view, depth of field and pixel densitys as they apply to 2D computer generated imagery vs real life. I've been playing around in VR in other flight sims lately, and I'll further this: for all the immersion boost it provides, you lose peripheral vision which is essential in dog fights and many non dog fight manuvers. If any of you drive, consider how far you are into your peripheral vision when you check your blind spot while changing lanes, or look behind when reversing. In current VR, to do that, I have to rotate my sitting position about 60-90 degrees to do that. The loss of pixel count is also a limiting factor with current sets. We're getting closer but we're not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Seriously, who cares? If you want to use zoom use it and if you don't then don't. We all have different systems, monitors, and vision. Zoom isn't cheating when it's available for everybody. Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I feel Zoom is very much cheating and so I never use it. Whats the point flying a WWII plane and zoom in and out ? We can do this with the modern pods in the A 10 or the Harrier for example but zooming pilot view is a no go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 And I have no problem spotting in 1440 by the way, seems much easier like in real life. Flew only in BS though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I feel Zoom is very much cheating and so I never use it. Whats the point flying a WWII plane and zoom in and out ? We can do this with the modern pods in the A 10 or the Harrier for example but zooming pilot view is a no go. Spend a day in my boots and you'd zoom. Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golani79 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I feel Zoom is very much cheating and so I never use it. Whats the point flying a WWII plane and zoom in and out ? We can do this with the modern pods in the A 10 or the Harrier for example but zooming pilot view is a no go. Zoo in sims has nothing to do with cheating. If you are zoomed out you have a much wider field of FOV - closer to real life. Zoomed in you get the "resolution" you´d have in real life to focus on objects and identify them. >> DCS liveries by golani79 << Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts