Griefhard Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 So ... I sure see the need for startup and shutdown procedures and while I would understand to start the bird up within a certain time, I fail to see the necessity to shutdown the aircraft within 2 Minutes. I mean you obviously can do it, but its unnecessary stressful? But maybe there's some idea behind this, I simply don't know. Maybe someone can enlighten me? :smilewink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudel_chw Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 But maybe there's some idea behind this, I simply don't know. You must keep in mind that this Campaign is actually a series of Tests .. and if you pass them all then you qualify. I understand that these tests are "based on real world qualification requirements" as the brochure says, and as a test it seems logical to put time constraints in there .. we as student pilots have to perform within those constraints :) Cheers! For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre-TLA Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 The real world shutdown procedure is much longer (for example you need to put the LEFT throttle to OFF after 5 minutes at IDLE). We didn't want the player to have to sit waiting too long to get their results so after realizing that most players can get everything shutdown within 2 minutes we felt that was an appropriate test benchmark. Plus the time constraint does add some stress to the procedure which does make it more of a challenge. Once you understand it you can complete the procedure in even less time as you can start shutting things down while taxiing back to the parking spot. MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griefhard Posted August 26, 2018 Author Share Posted August 26, 2018 Sabre-TLA - I see. Thing is: With VR it is somewhat more difficult to press buttons. Sometimes you have to look another direction, move the chair a bit and then move back. Also - because of resolution, you sometimes need to zoom to see the right knob. Especially in the beginning. Maybe once you passed the bootup and shutdown sequence just get rid of time contraints there. I mean - you did pass it at this time to be able to advance to the next mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre-TLA Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Sabre-TLA - I see. Thing is: With VR it is somewhat more difficult to press buttons. Sometimes you have to look another direction, move the chair a bit and then move back. Also - because of resolution, you sometimes need to zoom to see the right knob. Especially in the beginning. Maybe once you passed the bootup and shutdown sequence just get rid of time contraints there. I mean - you did pass it at this time to be able to advance to the next mission. That's a good point. The missions were designed before VR became really popular. We will consider making some adjustments for a future update. MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlanddragon Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) Haven t played DCS in VR. But, i know the problems with VR. A simulation is not triggert with a eyeblink. A real pilot must be able to hold one of the sticks. Be able to look forward. Be able to maneuver the bird with one hand, while the other hand controls the functions. Maybe i dont know much about VR. But i have enough to do without VR. :book::joystick::pilotfly: Edited September 5, 2018 by woodlanddragon I7 7700k - MSI Z270 PC MATE DUAL - CORSAIR DDR4 32GB - NVIDIA GTX 1080 - EIZO FS2735 - TRACKIR - GUILLEMOT PRODUCTS - CH PRODUCTS - SB X-FI FATALITY PLATINUM - VAICOM PRO - TACVIEW VIEL LEIDENSFÄHGKEIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlanddragon Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) double post Edited September 5, 2018 by woodlanddragon I7 7700k - MSI Z270 PC MATE DUAL - CORSAIR DDR4 32GB - NVIDIA GTX 1080 - EIZO FS2735 - TRACKIR - GUILLEMOT PRODUCTS - CH PRODUCTS - SB X-FI FATALITY PLATINUM - VAICOM PRO - TACVIEW VIEL LEIDENSFÄHGKEIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzger Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 I have finished the campaign with vr and shutting down for 2 mins is not a problem at all. Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iFoxRomeo Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 Forced shut down in 2 minutes... strange. What happens if you can't shutdown within 2 minutes? The real world shutdown procedure is much longer (for example you need to put the LEFT throttle to OFF after 5 minutes at IDLE). We didn't want the player to have to sit waiting too long to get their results so after realizing that most players can get everything shutdown within 2 minutes we felt that was an appropriate test benchmark. Plus the time constraint does add some stress to the procedure which does make it more of a challenge. Once you understand it you can complete the procedure in even less time as you can start shutting things down while taxiing back to the parking spot. Sabre, sorry as this probably sounds rude, but then you fail to achieve your own goals. The "boring" parts belong to realism as well as the interesting ones. I put this into the same category as INS alignment. If people play your campaign, because they want to have a realistic recreation of procedures and start with a cold dark aircraft, then they should get maximum possible realism and procedures. Otherwise this is no challenge in the category realism. Quickest shutdown in a gaming manner would then be throttles to shut down and battery off. I'm sure your campaigns are challenging, rewarding and fun. But here you traided realism for a artificial challenge, no [your words] "actual A10 pilot would go through". People think these missions are a recreation of realistic procedures, because you promote them this way. It's perfectliy fine to play DCS in a gaming manner. But imho if somebody says "realistic" he/she has then to stick to it. Just my 0,02$. I'm sure it doesn't change anything. But recently more and more things in DCS pop up that claim realism, but fail to be realistic. Fox Quote Sabre-TLA: "Backstory: I've searched the forums but couldn't find a reference to this topic so starting a new thread. The training in DCS-A10C is excellent but what I would like to have is a Flight Qualification Campaign that mimics the training and flight quals of what an actual A10 pilot would go through. Each mission would cover a specific training element and to pass you need to succeed with each mission. At the end of the campaign you would be considered qualified to fly the A-10C in combat. I realize this is a game and you can just jump right into a combat mission but given the realism in this sim I would like to pass a formal qualification test before moving onto combat missions. I've done the research and came up with this model:..." Spoiler PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, 3080ti, 64GB RAM, Oculus Quest 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacken Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 The real world shutdown procedure is much longer (for example you need to put the LEFT throttle to OFF after 5 minutes at IDLE). We didn't want the player to have to sit waiting too long to get their results so after realizing that most players can get everything shutdown within 2 minutes we felt that was an appropriate test benchmark. Plus the time constraint does add some stress to the procedure which does make it more of a challenge. Once you understand it you can complete the procedure in even less time as you can start shutting things down while taxiing back to the parking spot. Funnily enough, I have recently re-visited this campaign, and I too feel that the 2 minute restriction on shutdown is crazy. The main reason I say that, is because there is just not enough time for learners to get the job done in a semi-relaxed and organised way. AND, forgetting something like the pitot heat switch forces you to go back through the whole, lengthy startup and (very tedious) ground movement part of this mission. I mean why do you get 15 minutes for the startup and 2 minutes for the shutdown? The startup can be done in about 6 minutes fairly easily. It is just so frustrating. If there was even just one more minute for the shutdown, there would be time to check around, and not suffer the frustration of having to re-do everything all over again! BTW, it makes no difference whether in VR or not. Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre-TLA Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 We are working to update the campaign with new voice overs so we will consider changing the shutdown time to make it longer. The campaign package does provide an interactive shutdown training mission and a practice mission so we expected users would use those to become proficient before trying the qual campaign mission. Certainly 2 minutes to complete the checklist without knowing it well would be a challenge for anyone. MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livers Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 We are working to update the campaign with new voice overs so we will consider changing the shutdown time to make it longer. Great news! Please, no more "cadet", if you would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griefhard Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 Maybe you want to consider getting rid of the startup and shutdown time altogether. At least once you pass the initial training. After you once have proven, you can do it, I feel it should not be part of the next exam. I would like that much nore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlanddragon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 We are working to update the campaign with new voice oversWould you say that this statment has the ablility to say: "Damn, yes I will play this Campaing another time, (and again and again and again?) untill i can fly a full cloverleaf?" *ggg I7 7700k - MSI Z270 PC MATE DUAL - CORSAIR DDR4 32GB - NVIDIA GTX 1080 - EIZO FS2735 - TRACKIR - GUILLEMOT PRODUCTS - CH PRODUCTS - SB X-FI FATALITY PLATINUM - VAICOM PRO - TACVIEW VIEL LEIDENSFÄHGKEIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacken Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Would you say that this statment has the ablility to say: "Damn, yes I will play this Campaing another time, (and again and again and again?) untill i can fly a full cloverleaf?" *ggg Just had to give up of ever doing a cloverleaf! Just moved on. Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodlanddragon Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 It was a joke! This plane can not fly a full cloverleaf, or? I7 7700k - MSI Z270 PC MATE DUAL - CORSAIR DDR4 32GB - NVIDIA GTX 1080 - EIZO FS2735 - TRACKIR - GUILLEMOT PRODUCTS - CH PRODUCTS - SB X-FI FATALITY PLATINUM - VAICOM PRO - TACVIEW VIEL LEIDENSFÄHGKEIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcs76 Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 Actually .... you would not be required to wait 5 minutes before shutting down the engines. Waiting 5 minutes is only required after a flight and as long as the engines have not been run above 80% RPM during the taxiing an immediate engine shutdown is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBoT Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 I'm almost finished with this campaign now and I have to agree the 2 minute shutdown is always VERY stressful and seems rushed. Maybe give 5 minutes and the ability to hit F10 and say "shutdown complete" so you wouldn't have to wait the full 5 minutes to be graded if you didn't need it. Also just a little more feedback, I find the checklist PDF that comes with the campaign very difficult to read and use. It seems difficult to find what I'm working for (ie, manual landing reversion) and when I do find it there isn't clear steps (ie, 1, 2, 3) that exactly match what your training missions suggest. Great campaign though and thanks for making it! I'm enjoying going through it. Windows 10 x64 | i5-9600K | ASUS RTX 2080 8GB | 32GB DDR4 3200 | 256GB & 1TB SSD | GIGABYTE Z390 | TM Warthog HOTAS | Virpil WarBRD | Slaw RX Viper v2 | TrackIR 5 | Buddy-Fox A-10C UFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre-TLA Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 That's a good suggestion. We will be updating all the voice overs soon so we will add the F10 capability to indicate shutdown complete and increase the default timeout. We will also take a look at the checklist and see if we can make it more user friendly. MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Thanks for the great campaign and thanks for the promised update! Realism is always better, even though for me the 2 minute shutdown is not a real problem: You just put your flaps and airbrakes in the neutral position, turn off the engines, then the battery and then work your way from left to right until all switches are in the default position. For me it takes even less than 90 seconds to do it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre-TLA Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 :thumbup: MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegOhm_SD Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Funnily enough, I have recently re-visited this campaign, and I too feel that the 2 minute restriction on shutdown is crazy. The main reason I say that, is because there is just not enough time for learners to get the job done in a semi-relaxed and organised way. AND, forgetting something like the pitot heat switch forces you to go back through the whole, lengthy startup and (very tedious) ground movement part of this mission. I mean why do you get 15 minutes for the startup and 2 minutes for the shutdown? The startup can be done in about 6 minutes fairly easily. It is just so frustrating. If there was even just one more minute for the shutdown, there would be time to check around, and not suffer the frustration of having to re-do everything all over again! BTW, it makes no difference whether in VR or not. Nothing wrong with having and using a checklist...problem of forgetting something solved. :book: Cooler Master HAF XB EVO , ASUS P8Z77-V, i7-3770K @ 4.6GHz, Noctua AC, 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro, EVGA 1080TI 11GB, 2 Samsung 840 Pro 540GB SSDs Raid 0, 1TB HDD, EVGA SuperNOVA 1300W PS, G930 Wireless SS Headset, TrackIR5/Wireless Proclip, TM Warthog, Saitek Pro Combat Pedals, 75" Samsung 4K QLED, HP Reverb G2, Win 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Exulte Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Indeed, my instructors make me use a checklist in the glider I'm training on. It doesn't HAVE anything to check, really. Checklists are the norm, watch ANY startup vid. You CAN'T remember everything. That's why you are SUPPOSED to use a list. Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти. 5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerd Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 We will be updating all the voice overs soon so we will add the F10 capability to indicate shutdown complete and increase the default timeout. We will also take a look at the checklist and see if we can make it more user friendly. Hi, do you plan to release the update as a a new campaign, or as a free update for the existing owners? I’d like to get this one to finally dive into a10 seriously, but I do not want to end up like with Enemy Within when literaly month after I got it a new payed version was released... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre-TLA Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 It will be an update to the existing package. We have a list of changes we want to make to improve play as well as the voice over updates. Unfortunately we have been delayed by other campaign work but those are getting close to being done so we can get back to refactoring our existing releases. MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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