Night Time Nylon Hose Effect

[DigitalEngine]

When flying at night, there is a nylon hose effect, such as a nylon panty hose has been stretched over your eyes or head. This makes the lighting and shading distorted, as seen through the HMD, in the Caucuses map anyway. Haven't tried any other maps.

While there is, or was a "work around fix" for the Rift, this work around solution does not apply to the HTC Vive, which has the same issue.

OpenBeta 2.5.3.22176

[Edit]

Keygetys "sRGB gamma fix for DCS World".

While looking at something else, I noticed a problem in how the game applies sRGB color space conversion that almost certainly is causing this issue (or at least making it much worse). I made a mod that should fix it, see my site for some more info & download.

 

With that, using the HTC Vive, the nights look much better and properly dark .

Edited November 19, 2018 by DigitalEngine
Added Keygetys Fix Link

[nrosko]

Are you talking about the noise or mura effect? In Oculus I don't think the work around works or it causes worse problems.

[pimp]

Isn't that what they call the screen door effect?

[Hippo]

I've found night in VR to be very troublesome. The mura fix (I'm on Rift) did not give me results that I liked, so I went back to default on that. In the end, the following gave results that I found to be pretty good (albeit very dark):

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3533927&postcount=23

 

Better, I thought, than 1.5 VR with its terrible banding.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

what does "banding" mean?

[DigitalEngine]

Are you talking about the noise or mura effect? In Oculus I don't think the work around works or it causes worse problems.

Possibly, just not sure. Did a little studying. It'll be next week before I can get back into the virtual cockpit, and do some more comparisons.

 

I will say this, the " Night Time Nylon Hose Effect" is not so problematic in DCS 1.5.8.

Isn't that what they call the screen door effect?

Nope, different thing.

I've found night in VR to be very troublesome. The mura fix (I'm on Rift) did not give me results that I liked, so I went back to default on that. In the end, the following gave results that I found to be pretty good (albeit very dark):

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3533927&postcount=23

 

Better, I thought, than 1.5 VR with its terrible banding.

Thanks Hippo, I'll try that, also.

[nrosko]

what does "banding" mean?

 

Instead of smooth shades there is steps a bit like the old 8 bit colour graphics.

[Vannipo]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3563871&postcount=30

[Vannipo]

I analyzed a screenshot, which i made at night and checked the colors.

The darkest color value I found (in the night sky), is:

 

R 4

G 4

B 4

 

 

With an ingame gamma of 2.0.

 

So, DCS has NO 100% blacks in the rendered image.

 

And thats why, we all have this red/green/grey haze.

The Oculus pushes these low values a bit, that we are able to see low values. But this makes this haze in DCS.

 

So, if the DCS render engine image output would be re-offsetted, we all would have a great night VR flight experience. Or just the whole range from zero should be used.

 

Like in the loading screen, where u have a 100% black environment and NO haze, while loading and moving the head around. Noone has haze there.

 

It's up to the DEVS to fix this RGB "offset".

Either the gamma calcualtion is incorrect, or they shift the picture before applying the gamma curve.

A gamma curve keeps zero values untouched. If the values would be 100% black before applying the gamma, they stay 100% black.

 

If u pull down the gamma as much as possible, the haze dissappears.

 

Is there a way to adjust RGB-curves for the oculus output? Or what the Oculus receives?

 

Regards

Vannipo

 

 

Even a Screenshot made in 2D shows the offseted luminance.

It's not pushed by the oculus itself. Maybe an NVidia Problem? Or just the render-engine of DCS.

 

[jef32]

It's my second oculus

 

 

The first had this problem, not the second. I think it's an hardware problem but you can lower the unpleasantness by deleting the file(s) in user\your name\appdata\local\oculus\spud

[DigitalEngine]

So, after doing several test flights tonight, at night, here are some subjective observations and replies to some helpful post.

 

As a note, this "Nylon Panty Hose Effect" looks very much as if a panty hose is pulled over the (or my) virtual helmet visor, so it effects the outside environment, and the in cockpit visuals.

 

Are you talking about the noise or mura effect?

I'm not completely sure, but suspect the "mura effect" could be only a small part of this issue from what I've read from differing articles about it.

 

I've found night in VR to be very troublesome. The mura fix (I'm on Rift) did not give me results that I liked, so I went back to default on that. In the end, the following gave results that I found to be pretty good (albeit very dark):

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3533927&postcount=23

 

Better, I thought, than 1.5 VR with its terrible banding.

 

Thanks Hippo, I played around with the gamma setting as per your suggestions. After trying differing Gamma setting, I came to the conclusion that 2.0 to 2.2 (default) seems to be the best for me. A value of 1.0 makes it way too dark for me to see much of anything outside. While turning the gamma down does seem to mitigate the "Nylon Panty Hose Effect, it also dims structural/object lamps (runway/taxiway lights i.e.), which becomes a inverted trade off for night vision.

 

I analyzed a screenshot, which i made at night and checked the colors.

The darkest color value I found (in the night sky), is:

 

R 4

G 4

B 4

 

With an ingame gamma of 2.0.

 

So, DCS has NO 100% blacks in the rendered image.

 

And thats why, we all have this red/green/grey haze.

The Oculus pushes these low values a bit, that we are able to see low values. But this makes this haze in DCS.

 

Even a Screenshot made in 2D shows the offseted luminance.

It's not pushed by the oculus itself. Maybe an NVidia Problem? Or just the render-engine of DCS.

I'm suspecting you could be onto something. I've played several other VR demo titles that are in a dark/night environment for comparison tonight, and it's difficult see this "night time nylon hose effect" in them, if at all (The Brookhaven Experiment, Secret Shop demo, Abbot's Book Demo, and some SteamVR Home environments which are dark/nighttime). On these titles the night/dark environments are fairly clear. This effect I'm seeing appears to be mostly a DCS World issue.

 

It's my second oculus

 

The first had this problem, not the second. I think it's an hardware problem but you can lower the unpleasantness by deleting the file(s) in user\your name\appdata\local\oculus\spud

I suspect the issue I'm having is mostly on the DCS World app side, but even so, I'm using the HTC Vive, so your suggestion will not apply unfortunately. If anyone knows of anything I can change in the SteamVR files to help, please let us know!

 

Also, I observed, that the canopys are somewhat tinted, or obscure some light, noticeable in a night environment, again, as if their tinted or really dirty. I tried with low - high textures, same results. With the canopy open, the outside lighting and night environments are doable even with the nylon panty hose effect, with them closed not so much.

 

Anyway, I love doing night mission, so I hope someone who can make a difference will review this at sometime. I'm running out of play time for the week, but maybe in a couple or three weeks I can make up some videos, track, and log files if it will help.

Thanks to all for the input!! :thumbup:

Edited October 16, 2018 by DigitalEngine

[Kegetys]

While looking at something else, I noticed a problem in how the game applies sRGB color space conversion that almost certainly is causing this issue (or at least making it much worse). I made a mod that should fix it, see my site for some more info & download.

 

With that, using the HTC Vive, the nights look much better and properly dark :).

[Hippo]

While looking at something else, I noticed a problem in how the game applies sRGB color space conversion that almost certainly is causing this issue (or at least making it much worse). I made a mod that should fix it, see my site for some more info & download.

 

With that, using the HTC Vive, the nights look much better and properly dark :).

 

You are a god.

 

Please can you now get on with delivering world peace.

[rrohde]

While looking at something else, I noticed a problem in how the game applies sRGB color space conversion that almost certainly is causing this issue (or at least making it much worse). I made a mod that should fix it, see my site for some more info & download.

 

With that, using the HTC Vive, the nights look much better and properly dark :).

 

 

Not sure if this is a placebo effect, but to me (Rift user) blacks look now more black (even during the day), and the overall scenery seems to look more rich because of it and thus, far more realistic. :thumbup:

 

If this isn't some form of placebo effect I am experiencing, then kudos for finding and correcting this issue. I hope ED takes this to heart.

 

Edit: not sure if related, but the pink RWY signs are deep red again on NTTR (see screenshot); was that ED's work, or a side effect of this mod?

Edited November 9, 2018 by rrohde

[aaron886]

Great stuff yet again, Kegetys. Thank you for putting your time into these mods!

[fitness88]

Nice affect on the black. I tried flying at night to see the difference, I noticed a lot of banding in the sky, especially Nevada but Persian Gulf as well but not as bad.

Also I now notice a flashlight image that is on the screen a moment before the program finishes loading then disappears. Do you know what it is as it wasn't there before installing your mod.

 

 

flashlight.jpg

[fitness88]

This is something I used for the nylon affect, worked well for me.

You have something called SPUD on, it's a calibration mechanism that attempts to fix inherent OLED screen drawbacks.

It's not always perfect.

You can disable it:

· 1- Disable OVRService from Task manager (Services tab)

· 2- Open Regedit.exe and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > Software

· 3- Right click on the Software folder > New > Key and name the new folder "Oculus"

· 4- Right click on the Oculus folder > New > DWORD 32bit Value and name it UseSpud

· 5- Set the value to 0

· 6- Start OVRService again and put on your headset

· 7- (Probably) be amazed at how everything looks clean and black

[Hippo]

This is something I used for the nylon affect, worked well for me.

You have something called SPUD on, it's a calibration mechanism that attempts to fix inherent OLED screen drawbacks.

It's not always perfect.

 

You can disable it:

 

 

· 1- Disable OVRService from Task manager (Services tab)

· 2- Open Regedit.exe and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > Software

· 3- Right click on the Software folder > New > Key and name the new folder "Oculus"

· 4- Right click on the Oculus folder > New > DWORD 32bit Value and name it UseSpud

· 5- Set the value to 0

· 6- Start OVRService again and put on your headset

· 7- (Probably) be amazed at how everything looks clean and black

 

 

When I tried this I found the results unsatisfactory. Unfortunately, I can't now recollect WHY. I think it was because it made everything more washed out, like turning up the brightness on a TV, and it was no longer possible to get deep black. It did get rid of (or minimise) the mura though.

 

 

Discussed here.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Hippo

[TOViper]

This is something I used for the nylon affect, worked well for me. You have something called SPUD on, it's a calibration mechanism that attempts to fix inherent OLED screen drawbacks. It's not always perfect. You can disable it:

· 1- Disable OVRService from Task manager (Services tab)

· 2- Open Regedit.exe and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > Software

· 3- Right click on the Software folder > New > Key and name the new folder "Oculus"

· 4- Right click on the Oculus folder > New > DWORD 32bit Value and name it UseSpud

· 5- Set the value to 0

· 6- Start OVRService again and put on your headset

· 7- (Probably) be amazed at how everything looks clean and black

 

 

this helped me instantly a few weeks ago :thumbup:

[fitness88]

Kegetys' mod seems to have introduced more black, without the need to turn down gamma in the options. This is good as it allows things like runway lights to stay visible.

The registry edit above removed the dusty look especially at night which is now gone, of course the screen door affect will always remain as a result of low resolution.

Other than that I seem to be getting very smooth performance with solid good frame rate. I can't say for sure if it's been the Nvidia drivers or the Oculus software update.

[fitness88]

When I tried this I found the results unsatisfactory. Unfortunately, I can't now recollect WHY. I think it was because it made everything more washed out, like turning up the brightness on a TV, and it was no longer possible to get deep black. It did get rid of (or minimise) the mura though.

 

 

Discussed here.

 

 

 

Can't understand why some get positive results and others not. The article I got it from seemed to show good results as well.

[rrohde]

Kegetys' mod seems to have introduced more black, without the need to turn down gamma in the options. This is good as it allows things like runway lights to stay visible.

The registry edit above removed the dusty look especially at night which is now gone, of course the screen door affect will always remain as a result of low resolution.

 

After more flying this is exactly what I a seeing; I am also using the Oculus registry hack, and the more deep and realistic blacks from Kegetys' mod make the environment a lot richer and more believable.

[fitness88]

After more flying this is exactly what I a seeing; I am also using the Oculus registry hack, and the more deep and realistic blacks from Kegetys' mod make the environment a lot richer and more believable.

 

 

 

An important note to restate, although the gamma can lighten and darken colors it does so globally which means objects like ground lighting, as well as the stars and moon etc. all get darkened or lightened by the gamma setting which is not what you necessarily want.

Kegetys' addresses this issue nicely.

[fitness88]

It's my second oculus

 

 

The first had this problem, not the second. I think it's an hardware problem but you can lower the unpleasantness by deleting the file(s) in user\your name\appdata\local\oculus\spud

 

 

I deleted the 2 files I found in the spud folder:

HMD_WMHD303H300P3N.mashed

HMD_WMHD303H300P3N.spud

 

 

However HMD_WMHD303H300P3N.spud returned back in the folder after my first Oculus session but HMD_WMHD303H300P3N.mashed so far has not returned.

 

 

What is the HMD_WMHD303H300P3N.mashed file do?

[arturojgt]

An important note to restate, although the gamma can lighten and darken colors it does so globally which means objects like ground lighting, as well as the stars and moon etc. all get darkened or lightened by the gamma setting which is not what you necessarily want.

Kegetys' addresses this issue nicely.

 

 

 

Can you post a link to this Kagety’s mod?

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.