Problems with Vertical Landing

[Gladius]

I rarely manage to land the AV-8 Harrier vertically without damaging it.

Often I have the problem that it starts to sway sideways under 50 kts. Then one tries to correct it and almost gets sideways looped.

How can I prevent this?

 

I watched the Redkite video and I don't see the problem.

 

During practice I have no load on the Harrier and the fuel is only slightly loaded you so about 3000 lbs.

I have given up the vertical landing at the moment on the Tarawa and try it on an airbase. But I have the same problems.

[arturojgt]

Only three words, practice, practice and more practice.

 

It’s a phase where you need to be concentrated and no errors is allowed, then become more easy.

 

Is only that, practice, patience, no rush, smooth movements with the controls, you need to map the control of the nozzles in a potentiometer to obtain fine control (I have mine in a grey lever in the right side of the TMW throttle.

 

Keep practice my friend.

 

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[davidp57]

Is there wind ?

Anyway you'll have to watch your wind vane (just in front of your windscreen) to make sure you land into the wind ; then it's only a matter of training, gentle corrections, and avoiding pilot induced oscillations.

Train, train, train and then train some more.

Also, try this with a very light bird at first (1500lbs fuel, no pylons)

[arturojgt]

Problems with Vertical Landing

 

Approaching to the left side of the carrier and make the right slide movement combined with a soft pressure applied to the left rudder is the last phase of the learning curve.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

Edited February 2, 2019 by arturojgt

[arturojgt]

Is there wind ?

Anyway you'll have to watch your wind vane (just in front of your windscreen) to make sure you land into the wind ; then it's only a matter of training, gentle corrections, and avoiding pilot induced oscillations.

Train, train, train and then train some more.

Also, try this with a very light bird at first (1500lbs fuel, no pylons)

 

 

 

Totally agree with you.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[Harlikwin]

Basically what everyone else said. Practice. ALOT. It took me weeks before I could land without failure.

 

I found the tarawa landing easier than land because you don't have to kill all your forward velocity. and you are moving into the wind. But you can try it on a runway I guess.

 

Make sure you have some serious curves setup on the joystick.

 

When you start wobbling I also try to use rudder to null out the movement.

[Gladius]

Danke für die Hilfe, dann bin ich wohl auf dem richtigen Weg. Muss halt weiter üben und halt geduld haben.

 

Is only that, practice, patience, no rush, smooth movements with the controls, you need to map the control of the nozzles in a potentiometer to obtain fine control (I have mine in a grey lever in the right side of the TMW throttle.

Das habe ich bereits gemacht.

 

Auf den Wind achte ich ebenfalls. Aber das mit den ruddern probiere ich mal aus. Die habe ich bis jetzt so noch nicht eingesetzt.

[Mecrutio]

For me, I started with short landings. Line up, slow down, nozzles at 60, weight dictates speed, keep 9-10 AOA, AFC is your friend until 60 - 40 knots, boom. Power changes AOA, Stick changes speed and VVL.

 

Add wind. have it going parallel with the runway you wish to use. (5 - 8 knots ground) Set the temp to 10c.

 

When you're satisfied with SL, start sneaking the nozzles back during SL. Do a couple of runs at nozzles 70, a couple at 75 and so on.

 

The reason for this is to learn how to react during the transition from wing borne, to jet borne to hover. One of the best pieces of advice I got so far was to slap her around. When she gets squirrely jam the stick/rudder just once and she straightens up. But this does require practice. Easier said than done IMO.

 

Another thing to take into consideration are the curves. At hover, no loadout, 500lbs fuel and your only gonna work between 7-10% rpm to adjust height and drop speed. Quite honestly I think most of the work is around 4-6% rpm. Either way, adjust the curve to your taste keeping in mind the above statement. After I adjusted the throttle, I put a moderate curve on the Pitch and Roll. I probably need a bit more as I am still getting pilot induced oscillations, but kicking this mule upside the head is getting results.

 

I think I sound like im giving orders. I'm not. It's what I did and I'm damn near good. FYI I had to repair after a VL a couple of days ago so you have company in that stat.

 

I'm always practicing too. This bird is a challenge.

[Gladius]

AFC is your friend until 60 - 40 knots, boom.

Thanks with the ATC function it's a lot easier. Now I get most of the Harrier back into the hangar when landing vertically without damage.

[Mecrutio]

Thanks with the ATC function it's a lot easier. Now I get most of the Harrier back into the hangar when landing vertically without damage.

 

:thumbup: Noice. See you onboard.

 

Another thing to practice is the Variable Nozzle Slow Landing. It's in the DCS Manual. What happens is that you leave the power set ( depending on weight ) and adjust the nozzles to control AOA and drop speed. Stick still controls airspeed. I'm not any good at it, but it helps with fixed nozzle landings. For instance, If I find I'm chasing the carrier or slowing down too fast, just 5 - 10 deg nozzle adjustment and i'm back on track.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Mecrutio

[Eldur]

AFC is your friend until 60 - 40 knots, boom. Power changes AOA, Stick changes speed and VVL.

 

In the real thing you'd just leave it on and still have minor (but more than enough and therefor much finer control) stick authority, but RAZBAM didn't model this correctly which is a pity.

[Airj247]

With practice you will see yourself slipping before the slip, and correct it before it happens. Once you land on the carrier and build that confidence in your ability, you can only get better. Confidence is key.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Harrier , in hover or very slow VSTOL , is sensitive to crosswinds. To stabilize for vertical, point node into wind. The sidelip indicator, the thing in front of the canopy that looks like weather-vane, should be pointing into the wind with its tail towards you. Yaw or pirouette to point nose into wind. Set your HUD mode to VSTOL, and use WitchHat symbol to come to stable hover or slow 5 knot or less forward flight, turn on H2O injection for landing. Slowly retard power and let aircraft settle.

[baltic_dragon]

I know I am late to the party, but I am now finishing the STOL training mission (with quite a few variations of four basic short landings) and also am half way through the VTOL one (with some good pointers from active duty Harrier pilots). Two weeks, guys! :)

[Nealius]

Just note, RedKite's landing tutorial for the Tarawa is all wrong. Throwing out all the missed NATOPs stuff, he's landing in AUTO flaps when he should be landing in STOL flaps.

[Gladius]

I know I am late to the party, but I am now finishing the STOL training mission (with quite a few variations of four basic short landings) and also am half way through the VTOL one (with some good pointers from active duty Harrier pilots). Two weeks, guys! :)

Very nice, that's what I missed. Then I'm looking forward to it. Your trainings are really helpful.

Just note, RedKite's landing tutorial for the Tarawa is all wrong. Throwing out all the missed NATOPs stuff, he's landing in AUTO flaps when he should be landing in STOL flaps.

The AUTO-Flabs also irritated me at the beginning.

I already thought that this would not fit.

[Harlikwin]

Harrier , in hover or very slow VSTOL , is sensitive to crosswinds. To stabilize for vertical, point node into wind. The sidelip indicator, the thing in front of the canopy that looks like weather-vane, should be pointing into the wind with its tail towards you. Yaw or pirouette to point nose into wind. Set your HUD mode to VSTOL, and use WitchHat symbol to come to stable hover or slow 5 knot or less forward flight, turn on H2O injection for landing. Slowly retard power and let aircraft settle.

 

I turn on the water when setting up for landing along with flaps, if you are turning on water while already in a hover is not gonna end well.

[McShetty]

It's expected to try to turn into the wind. Been a while since I've read it but the manual states no VTOL in crosswind over some limit. So in a strong wind you're facing into it or you're not VTOLing.

 

But then it also states no taxi with canopy open but there's youtube videos of that too. Damn Marines with their forearms hanging out and their sleeves rolled up looking all cool.

Edited February 6, 2019 by McShetty

[Shadow_1stVFW]

the manual states no VTOL in crosswind over some limit. So in a strong wind you're facing into it or you're not VTOLing.

 

Ergo, there is no crosswind limit. Because there is no cross wind if you face the wind. You must be the wind. :megalol:

[Harlikwin]

You must be the wind. :megalol:

 

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar!

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/By9b2GP/comment/75015840

[Deano87]

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar!

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/By9b2GP/comment/75015840

 

Too soon man, too soon.:cry:

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar!

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/By9b2GP/comment/75015840

 

 

Just don't the wind. OK

[McShetty]

Ergo, there is no crosswind limit. Because there is no cross wind if you face the wind. You must be the wind. :megalol:

That was deep. But how can I be the wind if I'm already the ball?

[Shadow_1stVFW]

That was deep. But how can I be the wind if I'm already the ball?

Hmmm...

 

Well if you're the ball, someone has removed you needing to be the wind. Then then you need to be the wind, you don't need to be the ball.

 

Boom.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Mecrutio]

I'm not surprised a Firefly reference changed the direction of a Harrier forum. :thumbup:

 

Ok, so..... AUTO flaps will react to airspeed and gear. IDK, but they might move when the gear goes down, DEFINITY as airspeed decreases. It's handy for....something....

 

STOL flaps tho...... react to nozzles and gear. Case 1 recovery, 350 knots. (Have water/VTOL modes set first) Enter the turn, Cut throttle, set flaps to STOL. Flaps set to 25. Lower gear at 250, flaps stay at 25. Nozzle angle starts changing flap angle at 165 knots Set nozzles to about 30 ish. (right on is not important at this point) speed hits 165 knots and when you adjust the nozzles, the flaps react too.

 

EDIT: I confirmed, setting STOL flaps = 25deg. With gear up. T.Y Nealius

 

There is soo much more to a Case 1 recovery. I only used it because it is when I figured out Flaps.

 

To sum up my time in the harrier (Since Pre purchase) 20 percent weapons delivery, 80 percent STOL/VTOL practice. Mind you I am not the quickest car on the track....

Edited February 14, 2019 by Mecrutio