DCS: F-14 Air to Air Refueling Tutorial

[Milopapa]

Turns out when you're not confirmed to be in the clear by the tanker, the basket logic is turned off (even though Jester will keep commenting your line-up just as normal) and you're not able to refuel.

 

You need to make sure you have the clear from the tanker crew, otherwise the basket will not do anything and the probe will pass right through it.

[Milopapa]

Has this been posted already?

 

 

Pretty bad quality but interesting regardless.

 

Also , the last Tomcat seems to perform AAR with wings swept forward.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Milopapa

[Greyhound11]

i've been a lot better about getting on lately, but the physics while connected are frustrating. I'm in position, cruising along, no violent drifts and boom, hose ghosts through the probe and i'm disconnected.

[Nealius]

That’s been happening to me a lot with the S-3. I’ve only stayed continuously connected once. When the probe clips through the basket, it will often reconnect if I just stay there and wait.

[viper2097]

I would say you have a "box" where you need to stay during refueling. If you fly out of that box, you will be disconnected.

This box is by far the smallest with the S3. But honestly, it is only training.

I love the kitty, so I already flew it areound 30-50h with around 50 AAR and 50 traps (unfortunately the logbook is not very accurate and very buggy).

In the beginning, I tought it is impossible to even refuel even with the KC-130. Today, and many training hours later, I can do refueling with a S-3 flying a circle pattern without any problems. Connect at first try, stay connected the whole time.

 

So if you think it is impossible, let me tell you that you just need to train, and you will see, its doable. And once you can do it, its not that hard anymore.

 

If you want to train AAR, go from the easiest to the hardest:

The KC-130 has the biggest box you need to stay in, and also the biggest box where the probe "snaps" on the drogue.

With the KC-135MPRS, the box where you need to stay seems quite as big as with the KC-130, but the box where the probe "snaps" on the drogue is much smaller.

The S3 has the smallest box where you need to stay inside. Also the snap-box is not that big.

 

Refueling with the F-18 is the easiest thing, followoed by the Mirage and then the Harrier and the cat on the same level.

The Harrier is easy to control, but because of the probe position very hard to connect. Its hard to fly level while looking to the left. And it is not easier to look forward and connect it blind.

 

If you wanna go for AAR training, I would personally suggest to do it in the following order:

 

F-18 / KC-130

F-18 / KC-135MPRS

M2K / KC-130

M2K / KV-135MPRS

F-18 / S3

M2K / S3

F-14/AV8B - KC-130

F-14/AV8B - KC135MPRS

F-14/AV8B - S3

 

While I'm not sure if AV8B-S3 is working (because of the proble on the left side). Never tried it so far.

 

Also don't forget, that it is most important to fly in echelon foramtion with the tanker before starting to AAR. Only when flying in formation, you are sure that you are correctly trimmed for the speed the tanker is flying.

 

Also , the last Tomcat seems to perform AAR with wings swept forward.

Why should they do AAR anything other then with wings forward? IIRC, in real life, the always did that with wings forward in manual mode.

I know that some guys here do AAR with wings all the way back, but I will never understand it why they are doing that.

Edited June 14, 2019 by viper2097

[Nealius]

AV-8B with S-3 works fine. I've done it a few dozen times, and found it much easier to stay connected than in the F-14B. It honestly feels like the "box" for the S-3B/F-14B combo is smaller than the "box" for the S-3B/AV-8B (or even FA-18C) combo, despite using the same refueling platform.

 

I know that some guys here do AAR with wings all the way back, but I will never understand it why they are doing that.

 

I put the wings in BOMB mode. With the wings full forward the maneuvering slats pop out and totally ruin your stabilization behind the basket. It's essentially the same as trying to refuel the Harrier in AUTO flaps.

[viper2097]

I just was not sure if there is enough "space" between the harrier and the S3, as the probe is on the left side on the Harrier.

 

Really? Manouvering slat are poping out? Need to check that. I have the tanker always set to 250kts IAS, set the wings to man full forward and it jsut works perfect and nothing is unpredictable.

[Nealius]

I wonder if there's a difference between MAN full forward and AUTO full forward. I used to do the latter and it was incredibly unstable.

[ebabil]

Hey guys,

I have been making some AAR practising on ravens server.

I try to get fuel from KC-135MPRS.

The problem here is, tanker always turns, slows down then speeds up, gain alt then lose alt.

Release the hose too late and retracts it at its first chance

Soo, aar becomes a pain.

 

In real life what is the procedure?

Does the tanker should fly straight to get me connected or do i really have to make a connect while it is turning ? i am ok with turning game after connecting, but trying to catch it while turning is hard.

And in the video on the previous page, the hose was deployed even the receiver plane at the observing area. Why doesn't our tanker do it?

Lastly, shouldn't we have a light system to direct us?

[Kubiz]

Great video. After a lot of practise I was able to take a full tank. Like guys here wrote - a bomb mode makes it a lot easier. Especially after the connection to maintain it. I practised auto mode for many hours and many times, but bomb mode is like night and day compared to auto. It is like taking fuel with F/A-18 (which took a lot of practise too, but the practise paid for itself). I am using TM Warthog with WarBRD base. Dead zone 2, curvature 10, no joystick extension installed.

[Talonx1]

Has this been posted already?

 

 

Pretty bad quality but interesting regardless.

 

Also , the last Tomcat seems to perform AAR with wings swept forward.

 

All I could hear in my head for that video was "you're teasin it man!" And "staay on taarget"

[WindyTX]

Hey guys,

I have been making some AAR practising on ravens server.

I try to get fuel from KC-135MPRS.

The problem here is, tanker always turns, slows down then speeds up, gain alt then lose alt.

Release the hose too late and retracts it at its first chance

Soo, aar becomes a pain.

 

In real life what is the procedure?

Does the tanker should fly straight to get me connected or do i really have to make a connect while it is turning ? i am ok with turning game after connecting, but trying to catch it while turning is hard.

And in the video on the previous page, the hose was deployed even the receiver plane at the observing area. Why doesn't our tanker do it?

Lastly, shouldn't we have a light system to direct us?

IRL you tank in the turn as much as straight and level depending where he is on the track. Sometimes on OPS we would ask him to stay at the N end of the track if that was where we needed to go so everyone would have to tank in the turn.

 

Yes there are lights Red Amber and green to give you guidance when behind and as importantly the hose has large bands on it that show you have far in to push it to be in the optimum position for and aft.

 

In real life he doesn't mess with hose once it's out it stays out until he is out of fuel to give away.

 

This does make it easier but yes I am afraid you do have to tank in the turn.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[*Aquila*]

Hey guys,

I have been making some AAR practising on ravens server.

I try to get fuel from KC-135MPRS.

The problem here is, tanker always turns, slows down then speeds up, gain alt then lose alt.

Release the hose too late and retracts it at its first chance

Soo, aar becomes a pain.

 

In real life what is the procedure?

Does the tanker should fly straight to get me connected or do i really have to make a connect while it is turning ? i am ok with turning game after connecting, but trying to catch it while turning is hard.

And in the video on the previous page, the hose was deployed even the receiver plane at the observing area. Why doesn't our tanker do it?

Lastly, shouldn't we have a light system to direct us?

You have to train in those conditions and it will become easier. Anyway, even if IRL you may sometimes have to turn while refueling, that perpetualy circular pattern is unrealistic. One has to place two waypoints in the mission editor so it opens the option for the tanker's pattern to draw an hippodrome between those two waypoints instead of endlessly circling.

[Biggus]

Great video. After a lot of practise I was able to take a full tank. Like guys here wrote - a bomb mode makes it a lot easier. Especially after the connection to maintain it. I practised auto mode for many hours and many times, but bomb mode is like night and day compared to auto. It is like taking fuel with F/A-18 (which took a lot of practise too, but the practise paid for itself). I am using TM Warthog with WarBRD base. Dead zone 2, curvature 10, no joystick extension installed.

 

 

This really is one of those cases where hardware makes a pretty significant difference. I have exactly the same stick and base combo and it's honestly like cheating now. When I was using the WH gimbal, I could hook up with the bigger tankers reasonably reliably with the AP auto-trim function engaged. If I did not use the autopilot, then I could not maintain contact for long enough to get more than 2-3000lbs if I was lucky. I didn't realise how bad the 'stiction' had become until I replaced the original base.

 

 

Now I can even manage to drain an S-3B in a single connection with no AP engaged, although it is quite hard. Here's tonight's effort with a Stratobladder, my first online attempt at getting fuel. Ended up disconnecting at 16,000lbs with no other disconnections between the end of the clip and my intentional disconnect.

 

 

 

 

I usually use bomb mode but I have tried auto a few times. It can be manageable but it's not worth the effort. Things can change unpredictably. I might play around with picking manual wing positions other than bomb position but I suspect that the greater the sweep, the slower the rate of change on the VSI will be. To a point, anyway.

[ebabil]

Rio is very annoying during refueling. He starts mocking, making same jokes over and over even i am not close to the tanker. He just doesn't stop even for a second,doesn't give a break,he is ruining my concentration at all

[viper2097]

Yeah, that was a bug that was fixed a few patches before, seems to be a peoblem again.

Just take it as a training for your concentration.

 

If you can't stand it, just silent Jester before refueling.

[WindyTX]

I like Jester he is a blast lol seems kind of realistic to me complete with the star wars references.

 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[Dangerman]

When I deploy the probe it pegs the Turn and Slip Indicator ball all the way to the left and the aircraft constantly pulls heavy.

 

I spotted this last time I did AAR in the tomcat and was impressed with the level of detail as I was with the transonic jump.

 

It’s realistic... we had to wind in a pile of rudder trim to straighten the jet after extending the probe in the Tornado. The Tomcat should be no different.

 

Extend the probe

Apply rudder trim until slip ball is in the middle...

“press the ball” if you are unsure which way to apply it.

 

Job done

[Nealius]

Have you guys actually needed much rudder when the probe is out? I see the ball go all the way to the left, but if I use rudder to center the ball I end up sliding left of the tanker. Instead I use just enough rudder to stay aligned with the tanker, in which case the ball is still quite a ways left of center.

 

Recently I've been ignoring the ball and just do rudder by feel while watching the canopy/nose/HUD T in relation to the horizon.

[Dangerman]

Keep the ball in the middle to fly straight. Ask any light aircraft pilot or helo pilot..... Perhaps the turn you are experiencing is that you are inadvertently referencing the dihedral of the tanker wing as your horizon and compensating which gives a turn?...... another common occurrence in real tanking, especially when IMC

 

Best to use rudder trim.. any manual input to keep the ball in the middle will result in a variable rudder input rather than a fixed amount you get by using trim.

 

But....Stick with what you are doing if it works.... but real tanking will often punish you if you use rudder at all.... a yaw moment at or near point of contact will significantly increase your chances of a “spokes” contact as the probe goes through the spokes of the drogue.... “spokes, no damage” call to the tanker will get a laugh, but you’ll be going home or diverting.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Dangerman

[Nealius]

From around 1:19 in this video you can see the ball is about halfway left of center, but my lateral movement in relation to the tanker is hardly noticeable. I would think that if the tanker were flying ball-centered, and I was flying with the ball that far to the left, that I would be sliding to the right. But it appears that I'm not. Adding more left rudder than that and I slide out of position to the left. Maybe it’s the tanker’s SFM?

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Nealius

[Dangerman]

No idea why... in real life that could be a bent jet, mismatched thrust output despite matched gauge readings and throttle position.....We all know aerodynamics and flying is an exact art coupled with subtle science.

There are many that want to analyse headings, angles of bank, exact RPMs etc for phases of flight. You must use the force luke:thumbup:. Do what works. Use rules of thumb and technique that works for you.

 

Good steady prod by the way... wish I could do that!

[Katj]

No idea why... in real life that could be a bent jet, mismatched thrust output despite matched gauge readings and throttle position.....We all know aerodynamics and flying is an exact art coupled with subtle science.

 

There are many that want to analyse headings, angles of bank, exact RPMs etc for phases of flight. You must use the force luke. Do what works. Use rules of thumb and technique that works for you.

 

 

 

Good steady prod by the way... wish I could do that!

 

If your aircraft is bent (and of course they all are to some degree) or otherwise a bit funny you might need some rudder trim to fly straight. But unless your jet is really FUBAR, I don't see why it shouldn't fly straight if the ball is centered and you're not banking. The ball just measures lateral acceleration, and if you're level and the ball is centered, you're not turning.

 

So there are basically 3 possibilities as I see it. Either there's nothing strange going on at all, it's kind of hard to tell from a second or two of video. Or the tanker is not flying ball centered. Or the ball in the Tomcat is lying.

 

Speaking of instrument failure; I actually had an altimeter failure in the Tomcat when I was practicing case 1 landings. It just froze at 1000' or thereabouts. Took me a while to figure out what was going on, but in the end I managed to land safely.

[Nealius]

I might be able to test it. ALT autopilot, hold wings level, pop the probe out and see if there's any heading change within x-minutes. Then do the same "stepping on the ball" for x-minutes.

[Dangerman]

ref your instrument failure.... I reckon it may be a bug.. I had it too.. but i saw the numbers drum moving whilst the needle was frozen at 1000ft