Valve Index - new HMD in May

[mhe]

I look forward to hearing reports on how the Index does.

I have a Rift S coming, but may still get an Index - least I have a few months to decide now.

 

I have both coming. I'll happily provide comparisons once all the stuff has arrived.

[dburne]

I have both coming. I'll happily provide comparisons once all the stuff has arrived.

 

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

[Johnny Dioxin]

A downer for me on Index is the probability of being tied to Steam.

 

If I have to have Steam running every time I use it - I would give it a miss, regardless.

 

Others may be prepared to do that - I'm not. Especially when using Home games. I have Steam running only when I absolutely have to - even then where possible I don't use Steam VR (opencomposite does a better job so far) for Steam games.

[nessuno0505]

Me too. I do not know what opencomposite is, but I prefer oculus environment way much over steam VR. In addition, since I'm a CV1 owner, I do not want to spend 1000 bucks now for a device I'll see on september at best. I'm selling my CV1 and I'll have my rift s for 200 bucks within a month, the quickest way to better enjoy DCS right now. Then I'll watch what will happen, if it is worth I could at most buy an index bundle in the future, maybe with a discount.

[mhe]

I envy you mhe :thumbup:

I got online yesterday to order one and,

Gee, sold out on day one...

Now it's looking like September, at best....

[update] Valve’s $1,000 Index Bundle is Now Backlogged Until September

 

Yeah, the sale was pretty insane, everybody got stuck during checkout because the payment servers couldn't handle the onslaught, I got my order through 5 minutes after the orders opened for Austria, friend of mine 10 minutes after opening and the whole thing was over in 15. And now the earliest you can get is September...

 

There is rare footage of normal vs double element lenses side by side, if that is any indicator for that wo expect from the Index, then I'm thrilled!!!

 

[Supmua]

It’s funny how I got charged for only 1% tax without shipping fee (expected 7% where I live), but I’m not complaining.

 

If Valve manages to release Half Life or Portal 3 this year, they will likely sell a ton more of these things.

[nessuno0505]

Only if they release half Life VR as an exclusive, but valve Is not Oculus so maybe you Will be able to play It even with a Rift s or a wmr device.

[Harlikwin]

You guys are balls out, buying before any actual reviews.

[Harlikwin]

Yeah, the sale was pretty insane, everybody got stuck during checkout because the payment servers couldn't handle the onslaught, I got my order through 5 minutes after the orders opened for Austria, friend of mine 10 minutes after opening and the whole thing was over in 15. And now the earliest you can get is September...

 

There is rare footage of normal vs double element lenses side by side, if that is any indicator for that wo expect from the Index, then I'm thrilled!!!

 

 

Uh yeah thats pretty misleading. Especially considering we dont even know for sure if the index has dual element optics (yeah I read the patent).

[Supmua]

Valve Index Controller update/SteamVR tutorial. Cool stuff.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Supmua

[Worrazen]

Yes, Oculus is no longer for VR enthusiasts but for the low-cost masses. The S basically isn't any better than the CV1 launched three years ago.

 

 

Yes, many original Oculus people left the company because Facebook killed hardcore VR for PC, Carmack might have signed some kind of contract or he's really into kiddie-VR so much ... there's so many better things out there for him.

[Harlikwin]

That would be really fraudulent advertising then...

 

Well tose are random comparisons not actual images from the headset. So thats misleading at best.

 

Look. Im excited about it too, but im waiting on real side by side comparsions for this, the reverb etc...

[nessuno0505]

Yeah, I know what you mean, I feel the same way about Fakebook and the Oculus Environment, except in inverse.:huh:

That's why I never post anything in the Oculus/Rift threads, and only in the threads for products I have an interest in. :smartass:

 

If you never had a Rift you never used Oculus environment so it's ok to avoid commenting something you do not know and are not interested in. But Rift can be used in steam VR too and I have some VR games on steam since they are not available for Oculus, so it's not wrong if I compare two experiences I've tried. IMHO Oculus software environment Is more refined, easier to use and performs better.

 

 

I have no problem to admit valve index has some interesting features Rift s has not, it's true. But to say facebook has killed hardcore VR Is a fake news, people Who left the Company had different ideas, but I believe the best strategy to see VR grow and exit from the niche in wich It Is now, with very few true games and a big amount of silly demo experiences, Is Oculus One. Maybe valve Will do half Life VR, but Will this be able to make people spend 1000 bucks Just to play It? I sincerely doubt.

Edited May 4, 2019 by nessuno0505

[Fri13]

Maybe valve Will do half Life VR, but Will this be able to make people spend 1000 bucks Just to play It? I sincerely doubt.

 

Half-Life and Half-Life 2 remake for a VR would be massive sale boost for Valve (and I would get both for free) but if they would lock it to their own new VR device, it would be seriously damaging as well, as not all Vive owners want to upgrade either!

 

The new Valve Index is really a joke again, for the consumers. If you do not own already two lighthouses, you pay 799€ for the HMD and two controllers. If you want to full complete starting package, it is 1079€

 

 

If you take just the new HMD, it is 539€. Now it sounds a lot more affordable, don't you think? But then again you want to buy the new Index controllers, that takes 299€ extra. Again you are at the 829€ price range for that set. And you can't use those Index controllers at all as comfortable with DCS as you can Oculus Touch controllers because you need to tighten those to be well used. So just dropping on lap and picking up is far more difficult.

 

But when the gloves comes around (that ED is working with few manufacturers to bring for DCS) then who cares those for DCS use when you use your HOTAS and then just touch around the cockpit?

 

 

IMHO Oculus is on the right track, cheap upgrade (399€) and great improvements like easily get own headphones if so wanted, just DP and USB3 cables, no extra sensors anymore. Yet great FOV for the controllers (you can use your existing ones too if wanted AFAIK). So you can keep going with DCS for better performance, with far better clarity and improved colors.

 

For 399€ without requirement to upgrade any other hardware in your current PC, no base stations and capability to read the labels and texts in the cockpit is already huge boost.

 

A hardcore people are never happy. But if you can deliver great cheap upgrade for 70-80% of the DCS users, then you can leave the rest 20-30% for wanting something like 4k per eye and 2080Ti SLI etc upgrades.

 

If someone can afford to put 4000-5000€ for their next computer to run all the greatest things, just get the best possible VR device you can get, but even then likely the best PC there is can't run the DCS with optimal performance.

 

Why I totally opt for a Rift S, that should fix the current immersion breaker = not capable read labels and gauges in the cockpit without zooming or serious leaning forward (if even then).

 

Another big thing is that the money saved from the Valve Index + PC to run it. One can buy a top gaming laptop + Rift S and run that combo almost everywhere without much hassle (if someone would want to leave their HOTAS behind, LOL).

 

More and more I see the reviews from the other HMD systems, more I have turned my opinion around about Rift S, and I actually think that Rift S is currently the best option to buy for a HC virtual flying for majority. And that is great thing as someone placing just 399€ for the VR first time, means there is more VR gamers and so on better overall future for VR.

 

1000€ for a best of the best VR system? Too much... Just too much.

[dburne]

Not sure about being able to use original Touch controllers with Rift S.

Totally different tracking method.

 

Really should not be relevant anyway as the S comes with it's own updated Touch controllers.

[Vullcan]

The controllers are worthless for DCS. Using a trackball/mouse and/or button box is the way to go until something revolutionary like gloves with haptic feedback come along.

 

The real joke is Oculus being headed towards becoming the "facebook rift", this is not the same direction the founders of Oculus had in mind (which is what a lot of us supported them for when we bought DK1's, DK2's... even though were not developers... and then the CV1). Going to the Rift S is very much a sidegrade with some functionality actually being lost (the inside out tracking isn't going to be as good for example). They totally have the $$$ to put up and deliver a budget friendly experience for the everyday Joe, as well as an enthusiast version.

 

So yes, support Valve who has shown an interest in the enthusiast crowd. If its not affordable for you then get whatever is, some VR is better than no VR (that's for certain). Price aside, Valve is the current company paving the way forward where Oculus left off.

 

Yes Oculus home a better experience, but IMO, headsets and controllers should just be a standardized display device with a driver that just works, similar to a monitor. We have to put up with these BS software packages to drive sales for the associated stores and maintain syncing of all the devices until that happens.

 

I have steam running often for most games on my PC when I'm not flying in DCS (as do others I imagine) so its not a big deal to fire it up to run DCS. The less applications running however, the better. If ED cant partner with Valve to add native support for the index then hopefully the next wave of devices will have it, until then I'll run Steam.

[dburne]

The controllers are worthless for DCS. Using a trackball/mouse and/or button box is the way to go until something revolutionary like gloves with haptic feedback come along.

 

The real joke is Oculus being headed towards becoming the "facebook rift", this is not the same direction the founders of Oculus had in mind (which is what a lot of us supported them for when we bought DK1's, DK2's... even though were not developers... and then the CV1). Going to the Rift S is very much a sidegrade with some functionality actually being lost (the inside out tracking isn't going to be as good for example). They totally have the $$$ to put up and deliver a budget friendly experience for the everyday Joe, as well as an enthusiast version.

 

So yes, support Valve who has shown an interest in the enthusiast crowd. If its not affordable for you then get whatever is, some VR is better than no VR (that's for certain). Price aside, Valve is the current company paving the way forward where Oculus left off.

 

Yes Oculus home a better experience, but IMO, headsets and controllers should just be a standardized display device with a driver that just works, similar to a monitor. We have to put up with these BS software packages to drive sales for the associated stores and maintain syncing of all the devices until that happens.

 

I have steam running often for most games on my PC when I'm not flying in DCS (as do others I imagine) so its not a big deal to fire it up to run DCS. The less applications running however, the better. If ED cant partner with Valve to add native support for the index then hopefully the next wave of devices will have it, until then I'll run Steam.

 

Yeah I am sure that is not what Palmer Lucky had in mind when developing the Rift, however when selling to Facebook it certainly is no surprise when he did the direction Facebook is taking VR. He got rich, Facebook got Oculus VR.

Now we have Oculus Go for Mobile, Oculus Quest for standalone , and Lenovo- err Rift S as an afterthought for PC-VR... I hope it is good.

 

I look forward to seeing reports from how the Index does.

[javelina1]

......

hardcore people are never happy. But if you can deliver great cheap upgrade for 70-80% of the DCS users, then you can leave the rest 20-30% for wanting something like 4k per eye and 2080Ti SLI etc upgrades.....

SPOT ON BUDDY!!!:thumbup: and they're the most vocal too! ;):lol: Must be an Internet thingy... :)

[Aries144]

I've seen this happen several times in a few different industries and the result is always the same: innovative small business sells out to large corporation based on promises of more resources to innovate. Big corporation plays along for 6 months to a year, then wants to see how radical innovation is going to help the bottom line. Big corp clamps down when it doesn't see the profit projections it wants, all the talent leaves, big corp sells rehashed iterations of the original product for as long as it can, then moves on other products or uses marketing and a tactic of gobbling up new talent to keep itself competitive in the marketplace.

 

Oculus is only mostly dead. It's zombie corpse will be kept alive, being advanced as little as possible each iteration to bring in the maximum profit for the least development expense. They'll see small spurts of innovation as they bring in new talent when sales droop, but now that it's owned by facebook all the excitement of working there will be dead and the smart talent will stay away.

[Supmua]

I'm not sure why we continue to talk about the Rift S's superiority in the Index thread here. But I can assure you guys that there are also people out there who think otherwise. Okay, this may not be a popular opinion around here where Oculus seems to reign supreme but go to Reddit or popular VR sites and you might get a glimpse of a different perspective.

 

The way I see the Rift S from a VR enthusiast standpoint is, plain and simple, a headset with screen that is inferior to even the first generation WMR in terms of resolution (1280x1440 vs 1440x1440), as well as refresh rate (80 vs 90 Hz), sprinkled with 3 extra cameras on top of Oculus proprietary software. Good price? yep, very good. And yeah it's a little bit of an upgrade from the original Rift's 1080x1200 screen but it's hardly exciting compared to other upcoming devices of the same generation.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Supmua

[nrosko]

Just had a thought. I own the non steam version of DCS, does Steam VR run external applications like Oculus does?

[hansangb]

Just had a thought. I own the non steam version of DCS, does Steam VR run external applications like Oculus does?

 

 

Yes, it runs fine. You need SteamVR but that's about it. You need Microsoft WMR software if it's a WMR HMD.

[etherbattx]

Valve Index - new HMD in May

 

funny how we “know” one thing is better than another, even though we haven’t tried it or seen any comparison reviews.

[Harlikwin]

funny how we “know” one thing is better than another, even though we haven’t tried it or seen any comparison reviews.

 

Careful man, the nineliner killed my post saying the same thing.

[Harlikwin]

The Index sold out in under 30 minutes, at $1,000 a pop, without a Half-Life, so there must be a few other peoples other than myself willing pay the $1K for it, even without the Half-Life....

I'd even consider purchasing an XTAL, if a mass produced commercial/consumer version was available around $2,500 price range. Other word, I'm more interested in the leading edge higher end VR products.

 

Another great concept about Valve's products, which I greatly appreciate, is Valve doesn't lock their products to a proprietary ecosystem. Which is just one more of a few other reasons I'll not, nor ever will support Fakebook in anyway.

 

I will say, my biggest disappointment in the Index is two things, Valve didn't go the 4K resolution, for whatever reason. However, I will still purchase one, and second, it seems as Valve seriously underestimated the market size for consumers such as me who are willing to pay the price for leading edge HMD products. As of now, my estimated delivery date is September.

 

Basically it's like this, the Valve Index is likely not, nor ever will be for the Fakebook crowd.

However, this is a Valve Index thread ....

 

I find that kind of amazing and amusing at the same time. I can drop that much cash, no issue. But I basically want to buy the "Best" of the years offerings too, and thus far we have no real reviews of anything that's DCS specific that I can find aside from Wags cryptic RiftS post.