Valve Index - new HMD in May

[Nagilem]

Yup. Wing, hope and a prayer.

[Mango]

My biggest disappointment in Valve is not selling the Index in Canada. :(

[Axion]

Yup, their HQ is about a 3 hour drive from Vancouver. Don’t understand it either.

[Svsmokey]

I'm guessing that Canada , being the only truly civilised nation on the North American continent , and having less corporate runamuck , and stronger consumer protections , is finding itself in the same boat as the EU , to which Samsung won't ship the Odyssey .

[etherbattx]

you can’t make any progress being civilized.

[trigen]

My biggest disappointment in Valve is not selling the Index in Canada. :(

 

 

Same boat in Norway. Not available in your country. Was the case with the odyssey too.

[Rosebud47]

If you don´t hesitate to pay a little extra to get the devices into your country, there are some service provider in the U.S., who will buy in the U.S. and ship to you. Regular service charge is approx 50,- $ + shipping costs by UPS or FedEx. There will be also Import Tax in your country by customs.

One I remember is Big Apple Buddy ( http://www.bigapplebuddy.com ), who sits in New York, which means, they will charge on top approx 10% VAT before export. Another one - don´t remember the company´s name - sits in California, which is tax free.

Made with both good experience due to import to Germany.

[Gman109]

If you don´t hesitate to pay a little extra to get the devices into your country, there are some service provider in the U.S., who will buy in the U.S. and ship to you. Regular service charge is approx 50,- $ + shipping costs by UPS or FedEx. There will be also Import Tax in your country by customs.

One I remember is Big Apple Buddy ( www.bigapplebuddy.com ), who sits in New York, which means, they will charge on top approx 10% VAT before export. Another one - don´t remember the company´s name - sits in California, which is tax free.

Made with both good experience due to import to Germany.

 

 

There are over a dozen companies that can provide anyone outside of the USA with a US address, where you can have products shipped, and as mentioned in the above post, resent to you address worldwide for a small fee.

 

 

USA2ME.com, reship.com, viabox.com - the list goes on and on, just Google them.

[russiandivxclub]

I am not sure what you guys are talking about for 18 pages but if still about index then let me say something.

 

Few years back I tried Rift with DCS and I loved every second of it. IT's like you're there VERY impressive. But because of resolution and at that time I didn't have proper HOTAS I had to take off rift to look at keyboard for keys and resolution was not good enough to see all readings.

 

Now with better resolution, 120hz AND hotas so hands always stay on your joystick. It's AMAZING. Also for rare instances you do need keyboard I am sure they'll be able to get shortcut to enable external cameras for few second so you can see around yourself without taking off your vr set.

 

CAN'T wait for Index+DCS setup. Did I mention it's 120hz ???? Just Imagine that ........

[Harlikwin]

Dont confuse hz with FPS...

[FoxTwo]

Did I mention it's 120hz ???? Just Imagine that ........

 

I can imagine never being able to run DCS in VR at 120fps.

 

Honestly the Index is too rich for my blood. I hope it's good, but right now it's looking like this generation of HMDs is a half step. Small iterations across the board but nothing revolutionary.

 

What needs to happen is someone needs to take the one thing from each of them - 180 degree FoV from pimax, high resolution panels from HP, high refresh rate and dual stack lenses from valve, inside out tracking from oculus - and put them in a single device that doesn't cost 4900 euro.

[russiandivxclub]

Dont confuse hz with FPS...

 

Correct me If I am wrong , with 120Hz you can actually see 120 FPS vs having 120fps on 60hz monitor it's like having 60fps no matter what are actual frames you're running at above that.

[Harlikwin]

My point was you never fps that high in VR with DCS. A stable 45 is a struggle for most people. I have a 2080ti and a rift thats pushing way less pixels than an index will and i see 90fps on the load screen or when staring at blank sky, otherwise 45fps for me... so in theory its great, in pracice, not so much.

[Supmua]

Valve Index - new HMD in May

 

Correct me If I am wrong , with 120Hz you can actually see 120 FPS vs having 120fps on 60hz monitor it's like having 60fps no matter what are actual frames you're running at above that.

 

 

 

FPS is capped at 90 on older VR screens as you will see tearing artifacts running higher FPS on a fixed 90 Hz screen. And, tearing artifacts in VR isn’t a good thing especially when your eyes are right next to the screen.

 

In games other than DCS where native FPS can get that high, it will be a blessing to have this refresh rate. And this is why GSync or Freesync monitors with high refresh rate is sought after and cost more since it eliminates tearing.

 

I think that you can also turn on motion smoothing and double native FPS this way, meaning 60 FPS can become 120 at the expense of image retention artifacts—which could be minimized by having a low persistent screen. So, it is definitely beneficial to have screen with variable refresh rate as it gives more options to run the game.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Supmua

[russiandivxclub]

My point was you never fps that high in VR with DCS. A stable 45 is a struggle for most people. I have a 2080ti and a rift thats pushing way less pixels than an index will and i see 90fps on the load screen or when staring at blank sky, otherwise 45fps for me... so in theory its great, in pracice, not so much.

 

Understood. Yeah I totally agree but I do expect to get over 60 for sure. Right now I also with RTX2080ti and i9 9900k and I am pushing around 120sh on my 1440p 144hz monitor. And that's on maxed out setting with default settings for distance view. And actually looking back on Original Rift Experience FPS was not an issue for me, like at all only resolution and keyboard and at that time I was on 1080ti or may be even 980 in 2x SLI that I had before.

[mhe]

Wait for the VR performance patch Wags hinted at.

[nrosko]

I'll be running dcs at 80hz most likely in DCS, higher hz is for other games like Pavlov & Onward.

[mhe]

Depends very much on how much clarity the optics provide without. Maybe we'll have to handle a bit less overhead than with Vive Pro and the like, that would help performance as well. But then, there will be a wider FOV to render. It is hard to predict the performance, I expect that good settings will surface here in no time once people get their hands on the Index.

[nrosko]

Depends very much on how much clarity the optics provide without. Maybe we'll have to handle a bit less overhead than with Vive Pro and the like, that would help performance as well. But then, there will be a wider FOV to render. It is hard to predict the performance, I expect that good settings will surface here in no time once people get their hands on the Index.

 

As far as i'm aware it will not need to render a wider FOV, the extra FOV comes from being closer to the lense.

[mhe]

Sure, it is the same amount of pixels, but given that the view frustum of the renderer's camera has to be wider so DCS' FOV matches the HMD FOV, the engine has to deal with more objects etc. So, albeit indirectly, even at the same res, the wider FOV headset does indeed put a bigger strain on the system than the narrow FOV headset.

[Harlikwin]

Sure, it is the same amount of pixels, but given that the view frustum of the renderer's camera has to be wider so DCS' FOV matches the HMD FOV, the engine has to deal with more objects etc. So, albeit indirectly, even at the same res, the wider FOV headset does indeed put a bigger strain on the system than the narrow FOV headset.

 

Yup. Drawing 200 degrees takes more compute time than 90 degrees. Though with the Index I doubt it will be a big deal. Many of the pimax guys turn down the FOV for performance reasons as I've heard it.

[twistking]

I am surprised that the Index does not get more credit for its high refresh rate:

 

Of course i am just guessing here, but with the Index running happily at 120hz, you might get very good results with Motion Smoothing (ASW) and putting out only 60 fps.

 

I understand that native framerate would be even better, but from my limited experience with the Rift getting stable 45fps + ASW feels "good enough" most of the time.

But my point is, that with Index you would still get 60 "real" frames which is 1.333 times the temporal resoulution of the Rifts 45 fps, so you would get 1.3 times the temporal stability from that, BUT additionaly you should get less artifacting from the Motion Smoothing/ASW process, since there is less temporal prediction (the guessed frame is temporarily closer to the previously rendered one).

 

I understand that this would only hold true, if Valves Motion Smoothing process was as sophisticated as its Oculus counterpart (since this should be the best at the moment, at least on paper with Oculus ASW 2.0 ...).

However it's reasonable to assume, that Valve is also still improving its Motion Smoothing implementation.

 

With both the higher temporal resoultion and potentially better Smoothing/ASW in mind, i think that 60/120 could be the new gold standard for performance heavy VR titles and even more i would not be surprised, if 60/120 could feel better than true 90 for less demanding titles.

Edited May 13, 2019 by twistking

[jojo]

I am surprised that the Index does not get more credit for its high refresh rate:

 

Of course i am just guessing here, but with the Index running happily at 120hz, you might get very good results with Motion Smoothing (ASW) and putting out only 60 fps.

 

I understand that native framerate would be even better, but from my limited experience with the Rift getting stable 45fps + ASW feels "good enough" most of the time.

But my point is, that with Index you would still get 60 "real" frames which is 1.333 times the temporal resoulution of the Rifts 45 fps, so you would get 1.3 times the temporal stability from that, BUT additionaly you should get less artifacting from the Motion Smoothing/ASW process, since there is less temporal prediction (the guessed frame is temporarily closer to the previously rendered one).

 

I understand that this would only hold true, if Valves Motion Smoothing process was as sophisticated as its Oculus counterpart (since this should be the best at the moment, at least on paper with Oculus ASW 2.0 ...).

However it's reasonable to assume, that Valve is also still improving its Motion Smoothing implementation.

 

With both the higher temporal resoultion and potentially better Smoothing/ASW in mind, i think that 60/120 could be the new gold standard for performance heavy VR titles and even more i would not be surprised, if 60/120 could feel better than true 90 for less demanding titles.

 

Your answer is in your question.

Most people struggle to get 45fps in DCS.

Index will boost the resolution and also slightly the Gov, you will be lucky to maintain 45fps. Not sure ED optimisation will allow you to boost resolution, Gov and get to 60fps.

 

If everybody was max out to 90fps, people would consider this more seriously.

 

And you have to push some serious money to get there.

So Index isn't for everyone.

[nrosko]

Most people struggle to hit 45fps? Not me I struggle to hit 90.

[nrosko]

Yup. Drawing 200 degrees takes more compute time than 90 degrees. Though with the Index I doubt it will be a big deal. Many of the pimax guys turn down the FOV for performance reasons as I've heard it.

 

Yes but Pimax uses larger panels. The index is using the same size panels as the vive pro you are just wasting less screen because you are closer to the lenses. It also kanted the lenses outwards.