Will LTWS be pointless after TWS is out?

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Hi,

 

I've used TWS in Falcon but am new to LTWS. I was wondering in what situation would a pilot still use LTWS if he has TWS?

 

I've tried LTWS a few times. I find it rather 'cumbersome' toggling between SA and Radar unless you have a realistic HOTAS mapped. By the time I get the info I need, the bogeys are WVR :huh:

 

Anyway, just to check with regard to LTWS:

- TDC depress is used only in Radar page, eg. depress twice to go STT

- SCS depress is used only on SA page to get plane ID

- ie, we do not use TDC depress on SA page nor SCS depress on Radar page

 

Are the above correct? Thanks!

Edited April 4, 2019 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[QuiGon]

LTWS is not related to TWS nor is it a substitute for TWS. LTWS is a submode of RWS , so a pilot would make use of LTWS when he's using RWS and needs some more specific information on a contact.

 

About your questions:

1) When using LTWS you hover the TDC on a contact and press TDC once to designate it as the L&S contact and a second time if you want to get a STT on it.

2) IIRC SSS (Sensor Select Switch) depress must be used on the contact on the radar page, not the SA page to ID.

3) AFAIK both are only used on the radar page. I'm not aware of any functionality of these two on the SA page.

Additionally you can use SSS right on the radar page to get a STT on a contact immediately, so you don't have to press something twice. That is if you have the radar page on the right DDI and it's the active sensor. If your radar page is on the left DDI or the MPCD you have to press SSS left/down respectively.

Edited April 4, 2019 by QuiGon

[Jak525]

You do indeed use SCS depress on the radar page for IFF just like you can on the SA page.

[QuiGon]

You do indeed use SCS depress on the radar page for IFF just like you can on the SA page.

You can use it on the SA page as well? I wasn't aware of that, thanks! :thumbup:

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

In Wags video I am a little confused whether SSS depress is on SA or Radar page. I thought he only used SSS depress in SA. Or did he mixed up the terms at one point?

 

TDC depress I understand is for locking up targets on radar page only.

[macedk]

In Wags video I am a little confused whether SSS depress is on SA or Radar page. I thought he only used SSS depress in SA. Or did he mixed up the terms at one point?

 

TDC depress I understand is for locking up targets on radar page only.

 

I got it as, on sa page only.

[backspace340]

It didn't work on the radar page when he made that video, but it worked for us on both screens as soon as we had that IFF functionality. You can use it on both.

[Guppy]

SA Page you can only interrogate friendlies because you need multiple sensors to confirm hostile. Likely, if you cannot ID them as friendly on the SA page (show as neutral) then they are going to be enemy since in DCS we don't have random planes flying around. But to confirm hostile, you must use the radar.

[Cytarabine]

SA Page you can only interrogate friendlies because you need multiple sensors to confirm hostile. Likely, if you cannot ID them as friendly on the SA page (show as neutral) then they are going to be enemy since in DCS we don't have random planes flying around. But to confirm hostile, you must use the radar.

 

Well if you have AWACS saying hostile or another fighter and they fail to respond to IFF that is enough without needing to use NCTR.

[QuiGon]

SA Page you can only interrogate friendlies because you need multiple sensors to confirm hostile.

What happens if you interrogate a contact on the SA that is not within your radar scan zone (e.g behind you)? Does that work? If so, how?

[Jak525]

What happens if you interrogate a contact on the SA that is not within your radar scan zone (e.g behind you)? Does that work? If so, how?

Your radar isn't sending out an IFF interrogation. It's a normal radio broadcast via your IFF capable transponder.

[Harker]

SA Page you can only interrogate friendlies because you need multiple sensors to confirm hostile. Likely, if you cannot ID them as friendly on the SA page (show as neutral) then they are going to be enemy since in DCS we don't have random planes flying around. But to confirm hostile, you must use the radar.

SCS Depress performs an M4 interrogation, whether you're on the RDR or the SA page. NCTR etc is another matter.

[Ramsay]

Your radar isn't sending out an IFF interrogation. It's a normal radio broadcast via your IFF capable transponder.

 

In other aircraft (F-16) the IFF interrogation antenna is fixed to the radar dish and is directional.

 

If it worked as you suggest, every plane within range would receive a IFF request and reply at the same time.

 

The IFF transponder (reply) works as you suggest, as it has to reply to an interrogation from any direction.

[QuiGon]

Your radar isn't sending out an IFF interrogation. It's a normal radio broadcast via your IFF capable transponder.

No, in that case every NATO aircraft would be able to do IFF interrogations, as every NATO aircraft is equipped with such transponders. As Ramsay already pointed out, there is a dedicated antenna for IFF interogrations that is usally linked with the radar in order to send the IFF signal to the contact in front of the radar.

In the F-14 you can even use the IFF antenna to detect friendly contacts in front of you, which have not been detected by the radar when they are notching or filtered out by the doppler filter.

 

So my question remains:

What happens if you interrogate a contact on the SA that is not within your radar scan zone (e.g behind you)? Does that work? If so, how?

Edited April 4, 2019 by QuiGon

[TomCatMucDe]

the TWS will have a tighter limititations in the scanning volume. It will not substite LTWS if you want to have a good situational awareness.

[Rainmaker]

No, in that case every NATO aircraft would be able to do IFF interrogations, as every NATO aircraft is equipped with such transponders. As Ramsay already pointed out, there is a dedicated antenna for IFF interogrations that is usally linked with the radar in order to send the IFF signal to the contact in front of the radar.

In the F-14 you can even use the IFF antenna to detect friendly contacts in front of you, which have not been detected by the radar when they are notching or filtered out by the doppler filter.

 

So my question remains:

 

 

What you are saying is correct, the radar antennae is used to broadcast interrogation signals. IIRC, it uses the radar dipoles. The airframe antennas are for interrogation response.

 

To answer your second question, you should not be able to interrogate outside of the radar antenna’s ability to broadcast.

[Rainmaker]

Your radar isn't sending out an IFF interrogation. It's a normal radio broadcast via your IFF capable transponder.

 

That’s not how that works, as stated in the other posts above.

[Switch625]

the TWS will have a tighter limititations in the scanning volume. It will not substite LTWS if you want to have a good situational awareness.

 

 

So tactically speaking when should we use RWS/LTWS vs TWS?

 

 

Do we start with RWS/LTWS while we're building SA, then switch to TWS when we commit on a group?

[Tenkom]

So tactically speaking when should we use RWS/LTWS vs TWS?

 

 

Do we start with RWS/LTWS while we're building SA, then switch to TWS when we commit on a group?

 

That is how I do it in falcon bms. Seems to work well.

[TomCatMucDe]

So tactically speaking when should we use RWS/LTWS vs TWS?

 

 

Do we start with RWS/LTWS while we're building SA, then switch to TWS when we commit on a group?

 

you should use RWS/LTWS when you are still far away and cant shoot your missiles anyways. YOu will be able to scan more space and therefore have a better situational awarness. So when you swith to TWS you know where you want to center your radar (azimuth and elevation)

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I did some SA/LTWS testing with a custom mission of hostile Su27s and F-14s. I am a little confused...

 

1. What does it mean exactly when they say a plane is confirmed hostile? Is it simply when its HAFU symbol is red in the SA page?

 

2. Or do you need the name of the hostile plane to also show up in the bottom right corner of the SA page? Or is that technically unnecessary when confirming a hostile?

 

3. In my custom mission, the Su27s and F-14s which I set as hostiles were still listed (bottom right SA page) as Unknown even after STT lock and SSS depress attempts on both SA and Radar pages and the hostiles were very near within visual range. Why? Does this only work with certain aircraft?

 

Thanks!

[QuiGon]

To answer your second question, you should not be able to interrogate outside of the radar antenna’s ability to broadcast.

Yes, it should not be able to do that, but is that actually the case in DCS?

[Jak525]

Ah right thanks for the correction dudes. That makes more sense actually

[Jak525]

I did some SA/LTWS testing with a custom mission of hostile Su27s and F-14s. I am a little confused...

 

1. What does it mean exactly when they say a plane is confirmed hostile? Is it simply when its HAFU symbol is red in the SA page?

 

2. Or do you need the name of the hostile plane to also show up in the bottom right corner of the SA page? Or is that technically unnecessary when confirming a hostile?

 

3. In my custom mission, the Su27s and F-14s which I set as hostiles were still listed (bottom right SA page) as Unknown even after STT lock and SSS depress attempts on both SA and Radar pages and the hostiles were very near within visual range. Why? Does this only work with certain aircraft?

 

Thanks!

1 Yes, it's the HAFU being a triangle and normally red. 2 No, if you have an F/F or SURV donor already saying it's hostile. 3 You need NCTR enabled on the RDR ATTK format and you need to be nose on nose or nose on tail about 30 degrees; the radar needs to be able to get a good look at the engine fanblades

Edited April 4, 2019 by Jak525

[slug88]

Yes, it should not be able to do that, but is that actually the case in DCS?

 

Yes, DCS handles this correctly. When interrogating on the SA page, you can only interrogate tracks with the top-half of the HAFU showing, meaning tracks that are detected by your own radar.