Some feedback from a DCS beginner

[bni]

Im learning DCS and Hornet. Use VR mostly (Rift). Last time I spent any significant time with a flight sim was F/A-18 Interceptor. Its good to be back!

 

I will note here some things that have really confused me as a beginner.

 

1. I struggled with the plane not being stable and wanting to turn to the right. I could not enable the auto pilot also. Then I read somewhere that a small deadzone need to be configured. I put in a deadzone of 4 on Pitch and Roll and that solved it. Why isnt this added by default?

 

2. I use VR, and for now using an Xbox controller I had lying around (I know!!). I use the left hand on the mouse with VR Zoom to flip switches etc. Xbox controller / mouse combo kind of works, except for one issue: Both trigger buttons cant be configured for anything. I want to have them for gun trigger and weapon release button but it is not possible since they seem to be recognized as axis controls only?

 

3. Why is the VR "head cursor" and mouse cursor one and the same? It makes it hard to flip switches using the mouse since I need to keep my head completely still. It should be possible to disable "head cursor" completely and be able to move the mouse freely independent of head rotation.

 

4. I have used "Fast mission" a lot, and I think that is great for some free flight. One issue I had difficulty with was to load on any weapons. Have to drop into the full mission editor for that. And although Im learing how to use the mission editor now, it is daunting at first to even find the weapons loadout. Maybe add an option to add some weapone already from the fast misson screen?

 

5. Its weird that Axis controls exists both on General and in the Hornet section also. Many times when setting up controls I changed in the wrong place, leading to the controls not being active in the Hornet. For beginners I think getting over the controller configuration hurdle is the biggest one, and I gave up several times, but came back a few weeks later.

[FragBum]

1,2,3,4. Controls or at least user input devices.

 

5. Because there is a General Control template and a setting for each model.

[Cytarabine]

5 - with perhaps the exception of the FC3 planes each is so different that other than a few standard axes and buttons most are going to be plane specific (e.g. I have wing swing on my HOTAS for the F-14, while I have sensor controls in the same location on the Hornet). It is part of the time taken the learn a module. This is not Ace Combat.

 

I think issue 4 is a common issue that new players will strike. I know I started with fast missions wanting to get into the combat quickly. With time (and with full fidelity modules) I got into flying the whole mission and enjoying that (even sometimes ruining a successful mission with a hard landing).

[QuiGon]

1. I struggled with the plane not being stable and wanting to turn to the right. I could not enable the auto pilot also. Then I read somewhere that a small deadzone need to be configured. I put in a deadzone of 4 on Pitch and Roll and that solved it. Why isnt this added by default?

This isn't by default, because many users use high quality joysticks, that have no deadzone at all and thus can use the full axis range of their device without issue.

 

 

2. I use VR, and for now using an Xbox controller I had lying around (I know!!). I use the left hand on the mouse with VR Zoom to flip switches etc. Xbox controller / mouse combo kind of works, except for one issue: Both trigger buttons cant be configured for anything. I want to have them for gun trigger and weapon release button but it is not possible since they seem to be recognized as axis controls only?

Correct, the triggers on the Xbox controller are not buttons with two states (pressed/unpressed), but axis with a wide array of states (1%,2%,3%,...,100%). So they can#t be mapped as binary buttons.

[bni]

This isn't by default, because many users use high quality joysticks, that have no deadzone at all and thus can use the full axis range of their device without issue.

 

The Chucks Hornet guide that I have found very helpful says this:

 

NOTE

A small deadzone in the PITCH and ROLL axis must be set via the AXIS TUNE menu. Why? Because the autopilot will not be able to engage if the stick is not completely centered, and most sticks are not completely zeroed by definition (even the Thrustmaster Warthog). If you don’t set a deadzone, you run into the risk of not being able to engage your autopilot since your stick will always be detected as “not completely centered” even if the position offset is negligible.

 

If this is true then it should be there by default to make learning curve easier. Im talking about DCS learning curve here, not Hornet, that can be as hard as it needs :smartass:

 

Correct, the triggers on the Xbox controller are not buttons with two states (pressed/unpressed), but axis with a wide array of states (1%,2%,3%,...,100%). So they can#t be mapped as binary buttons.

 

Cant right now, but not impossible to implement. Many other games sure make this work. In fact the buttons are triggers, even if they have a range like you point out.

 

This is not Ace Combat.

 

:thumbup:

[QuiGon]

If this is true then it should be there by default to make learning curve easier. Im talking about DCS learning curve here, not Hornet, that can be as hard as it needs :smartass:

I can't speak for others, but I do use a Warthog Stick and it is absolutly centered when I let it go.

 

Cant right now, but not impossible to implement. Many other games sure make this work. In fact the buttons are triggers, even if they have a range like you point out.

Yes, but DCS sees an axis as an axis only and back in the day when I did play DCS with an Xbox360 controller (yeah, I did that too :music_whistling:) I was quiet happy about that, because the triggers are great to map the wheel brakes and/or rudder on them!

[norbot]

I'm also using the TM Warthog Stick and the VKB Gunfighter. Never use any deadzones either. Never had a problem with activating the autopilot.

[viper2097]

Useing "Cheap" T16000 hotas, no deadzone needed.

[Svsmokey]

4 . "Ready on the ramp" under Instant action menu lets you re-arm the f18 if you wish .

[imacken]

3. Been asked many times, but nothing ever happens about this. It’s a real pain, literally!

[River]

Xbox controller and VR ... Come on dude, what you expect ? Complain again if you got yourself a proper setup, this is nuts.

[bni]

Xbox controller and VR ... Come on dude, what you expect ? Complain again if you got yourself a proper setup, this is nuts.

 

A bit harsh. Giving feedback is not the same as complaining.

 

And actually VR + controller and mouse combo is not that bad. joystick in the wrong place physically, on the desk is not ideal either for VR.

 

I don't have the space to properly mount a HOTAS, so this will have to do for now.

[River]

What I am tryin to say is, get a cheap stick, saves you so much headaches. It is a flight sim, it needs some kind of hotas. Good luck mate!

[River]

... and sorry for beeing harsh on you, wasn't meant that way. Wrong words...

[cercata]

I don't have the space to properly mount a HOTAS, so this will have to do for now.

 

I have been like that for months, but I just used DCS to flight and see landscapes.

BTW, I didn't have the problem of the F/A-18 not being stable, so maybe there is a problem with you Xbox controller.

 

Now I have a HOTAS, and it's completly different beast the game, you should find a way to mount a HOTAS.

[nessuno0505]

Useing "Cheap" T16000 hotas, no deadzone needed.

 

T16000 Is "cheap" cause it's made in plastic and lacks some hardcore switches, but it's the same internal hardware as the warthog. Never used a deadzone in any module with t16000.

[FragBum]

A bit harsh. Giving feedback is not the same as complaining.

 

And actually VR + controller and mouse combo is not that bad. joystick in the wrong place physically, on the desk is not ideal either for VR.

 

I don't have the space to properly mount a HOTAS, so this will have to do for now.

 

No we are just giving some feedback here too. :D

 

You'll find a way to find space for controls. :thumbup:

[bni]

No we are just giving some feedback here too. :D

 

You'll find a way to find space for controls. :thumbup:

 

Yes Im sure I will eventually. I saw that monstertech has desk mounts with a optional mouse extension, would be ideal for VR I think. But it sure aint cheap ;)

[SmirkingGerbil]

Welcome to DCS!

 

 

Let us know how this works out for you. I am trying to find a way to introduce my son to this "game", without totally disrupting his XBOX gaming style to get him started.

 

 

However, as others have said, this is a study sim, whose focus is on realism (your centering issue aside.) So hopefully you get your XBOX VR issues worked out, and come up with something workable - and maybe I can get my son to pick this up!

 

 

Ultimately though, getting some type of HOTAS system is going to be the way to go.

[Svsmokey]

Yes Im sure I will eventually. I saw that monstertech has desk mounts with a optional mouse extension, would be ideal for VR I think. But it sure aint cheap ;)

 

The Foxx deskmounts are very similar to the Monstertech , and substantially less expensive-even more so if you live in the US . Wait times are killer though . I'm still waiting after almost 7 weeks :(

[etherbattx]

Some feedback from a DCS beginner

 

with higher resolution devices you typically need a dead zone.

 

otherwise it’s impossible to hit zero. there is just too much resolution. for example, is the middle (zero) number 32767 or 32768? what should be set in the output?

 

however, high resolution device manufacturers know that, so they often add a dead zone in the device itself, before the position is set on the output pins.

Edited April 10, 2019 by etherbattx

[Revs]

 

 

here's a cheap idea