Index specs released

[FoxTwo]

Disappoined that they stuck with the lighthouse tracking system, not a fan and why I don't use Vive or will purchase the Index. It also does not help matters that Valve has been less than supportive of us unlike other VR developers.

 

I wouldn't take it personally I get the impression that valve is like that with everybody.

 

Ultimately I'm waiting for the reviews. I don't care if it's from HP, Oculus or Valve, if someone makes a HMD where I can read all the instruments and spot aircraft, I'm sold.

[Wexler]

That is quite a mind changer for me. Dont want to stuck with bad supported HMD in only game I buying it for.

[etherbattx]

Ultimately I'm waiting for the reviews.

 

^ this

 

everything else is just wasted effort on speculation.

[Rosebud47]

(..) It also does not help matters that Valve has been less than supportive of us unlike other VR developers.

 

Sad to hear that, but it is no indication for the quality of their product.

 

Promoting specific hardware providers may result into separating DCS Pilots into different camps. Implementing Vulcan is fantastic and follows a philosophy to provide advantages on every system, independent of hardware brands.

[IanHx2]

Hands on review over on Tomshardware.com https://www.tomshardware.com/news/valve-index-vr-headset-controllers-hands-on,39206.html

 

Finger tracking and lens adjustability sounds interesting, the rest less so.

 

Personally I'd prefer to stick with inside out tracking rather than something that needs expensive lighthouses, but if finger tacking meant I could toggle switches in DCS with my fingers then I could potentially be converted....

Edited May 1, 2019 by IanHx2

[Johnny Dioxin]

I just watched the Tested review and have to say it looks very impressive - but converting from an Oculus set up is going to be too expensive, so I'll have to settle for a Rift S instead. If I didn't need a base and lighthouse, I would very likely have the Index for simming and keep using my Rift for roomscale - but it starts getting too expensive when you have to buy the extra bits.

 

I'd probably have to upgrade to the 2060, too - which is currently just down as an option. I could get a Rift S and buy the RTX 2060 and still have spent less than getting the Index system alone.

 

**having said that, I do like the headset shape - it's very much like a Rift, physically, so I may be able to use my VR interfaces and/or lenses with it, which would be a bonus, as I'd need new ones for the Rift S.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Brixmis

[dburne]

Yeah it is very pricey to convert from Oculus.

I have Rift S on pre-order, think I will wait and see how I like it before taking a plunge into the Index.

Lot of moolah.

[aileron]

Sadly the Rift-S is a no go for me. IPD too small. So I'm in that 30% bracket. Its either an Index or hold my breath and wait for Oculus to make an equivalent.

 

If the reviews are really positive with the Index that's the direction I'll be leaning.

[boedha68]

Yeah it is very pricey to convert from Oculus.

I have Rift S on pre-order, think I will wait and see how I like it before taking a plunge into the Index.

Lot of moolah.

 

 

 

Hoooaahh Don...you get smarter...hahaha :D

 

 

There is more to come Don. What to think HTC Vive cosmos (predictions : OLED, resolution 2160*2160 pro eye and around 700 dollars with inside out tracking!)

 

 

and HP reverb LCD, 2160*2160 pro eye pricetag 700 dollars WMR.

 

 

Offcourse you can buy them all...but.... you know. A vacation with you wife is also important. :D

 

 

Wait for review and not previews :D

[mhe]

Disappoined that they stuck with the lighthouse tracking system, not a fan and why I don't use Vive or will purchase the Index. It also does not help matters that Valve has been less than supportive of us unlike other VR developers.

 

The front cameras will be open source'd soon. So it won't be long until somebody comes up with inside-out tracking for the HMD I guess. For DCS, we won't need the knuckles controllers. Maybe somebody might even bring a hardware solution for the front expansion port.

 

However, I would have appreciated them cooperating with you, simulations are big for VR and I do love what you guys have done with DCS VR.

[TripRodriguez]

Disappoined that they stuck with the lighthouse tracking system, not a fan and why I don't use Vive or will purchase the Index. It also does not help matters that Valve has been less than supportive of us unlike other VR developers.

 

@Wags Damn, I'm sad to hear that. I did order Index, but for my use case Lighthouse/SteamVR is mandatory.

 

The only way available for me to have the VR head tracking compensate for the motion of my home built 6DOF motion simulator is with a SteamVR third party plugin called OpenVR Input Emulator. Oculus has ignored or rebuffed every effort made by the motion simulator community to address this so I was actually forced to ditch Rift in favor of Vive. =( Check the video in my sig to see a quick demo of my sim with DCS World.

 

I hadn't figured out the right settings for the motion cues yet when I filmed that, so that has drastically improved but the video gives you the general idea.

Edited May 3, 2019 by TripRodriguez

[dburne]

Man I'm sad to hear that. I did order Index but for me Lighthouse/SteamVR is a super important feature.

 

The only way available for me to have the VR head tracking compensate for the motion of my home built 6DOF motion simulator is with a SteamVR third party plugin. Oculus has ignored or rebuffed every effort made by the motion simulator community to address this. Check the video in my sig to see a quick demo of my sim with DCS World.

 

I hadn't figured out the right settings for the motion cues yet when I filmed that, so that has drastically improved but the video gives you the general idea.

 

Out of curiosity how is setting up the Lighthouse tracking system with say two base stations?

I have my two Rift sensors set up on my desk, one on far left and one on far right. Tracking has been solid for me with this setup.

 

Do I need a much bigger area for the Lighthouse system? Do they need to be mounted on wall?

Thanks for any feedback.

[nessuno0505]

My position Is fixed, but maybe with cv1 if you put two sensors on the moving pit, you should compensate... or am I missing something I do not know? Instead I do not know if It would work with Rift s inside out tracking.

[Supmua]

Out of curiosity how is setting up the Lighthouse tracking system with say two base stations?

I have my two Rift sensors set up on my desk, one on far left and one on far right. Tracking has been solid for me with this setup.

 

Do I need a much bigger area for the Lighthouse system? Do they need to be mounted on wall?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

Here's an old article about Lighthouse tracking system. They don't need to be mounted on the wall. I put mine on bookshelves (with velcro tapes so they don't move around), some people mount them on tripods. For simpler task such as headset tracking, one base is enough. For controller tracking you will want to position the bases such that one base light field can be picked up by the controllers at all time no matter where the controllers are (behind your back, in front of your chest, down on the floor, etc), this is why this type of tracking is so good because everything stays tracked at all time.

 

https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-valve-s-amazing-lighthouse-tracking-technol-1705356768?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=gizmodo_copy&utm_campaign=top

Edited May 3, 2019 by Supmua

[dburne]

Here's an old article about Lighthouse tracking system. They don't need to be mounted on the wall. I put mine on bookshelves (with velcro tapes so they don't move around), some people mount them on tripods. For simpler task such as headset tracking, one base is enough. For controller tracking you will want to position the bases such that one base light field can be picked up by the controllers at all time no matter where the controllers are (behind your back, in front of your chest, down on the floor, etc), this is why this type of tracking is so good because everything stays tracked at all time.

 

https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-valve-s-amazing-lighthouse-tracking-technol-1705356768?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=gizmodo_copy&utm_campaign=top

 

Ok thanks much! I will check it out.

[dburne]

For my tempoary office setup, I have mine sitting on a self to the left of the monitor, and the other sitting on a box to the right of the monitor.

 

If the two lighthouse cannot see each other, in other words, the monitor is in between them, be sure to use the sync cable and set the lighthouse so that they are A & B, not the default B & C.

 

Thanks much for the great info!

[eaglecash867]

The resolution is disappointing. Like I've been saying for a while, if their resolution was something to write home about, they would have disclosed it a long time ago. Of all the things to keep a secret on a new VR device, resolution generally isn't one of those things. Looks like the HP Reverb is going to be my next headset.

[Johnny Dioxin]

I caved - reserved an Index full set-up :helpsmilie:

 

Mrs Brix says she's fine with me having a Rift S and an Index - so happy days! :D

 

By the time it gets round to my order/despatch date, I will already know if it's a goer or not, so can confirm or cancel then.

 

Looking forward to it - just hope my new RTX 2060 has the oomph required for Index on DCSW 2.5, though I will try and use it with Composite rather than SteamVR.

[Svsmokey]

I caved - reserved an Index full set-up :helpsmilie:

 

Mrs Brix says she's fine with me having a Rift S and an Index - so happy days! :D

 

By the time it gets round to my order/despatch date, I will already know if it's a goer or not, so can confirm or cancel then.

 

Looking forward to it - just hope my new RTX 2060 has the oomph required for Index on DCSW 2.5, though I will try and use it with Composite rather than SteamVR.

 

A comprehensive DCS comparison is called for !

[Badlego]

Isn't it strange that the FOV is presented as "experienced 20° more than with the vive"? quote: Optimized eye relief adjustment allows a typical user experience 20º more than the HTC Vive....so how do you know about the 130° FOV? Could be smaller and just marketing IMO...

[Badlego]

Isn't it strange that the FOV is presented as "experienced 20° more than with the vive"? quote: Optimized eye relief adjustment allows a typical user experience 20º more than the HTC Vive....so how do you know about the 130° FOV? Could be smaller and just marketing IMO...

[dburne]

I was considering ordering the Index after I got my order in for the Rift S, but since the long lead time decided I would just wait and hear reports on it - and by that time I would have some good time in with the Rift S.

If I am very satisfied I will just wait for a while.

[Thadiun Okona]

Isn't it strange that the FOV is presented as "experienced 20° more than with the vive"? quote: Optimized eye relief adjustment allows a typical user experience 20º more than the HTC Vive....so how do you know about the 130° FOV? Could be smaller and just marketing IMO...

 

 

 

 

It's not a strange quote there is just more nuance to this because the fov is not fixed due to moving parts that affect the results. The Index has 20deg more fov potential than Vive.

 

 

 

Both Vive and Index can move the optics closer/farther from a users face. While Vive is spec'd at 110deg, that is at the ideal distance but if you have glasses or super long eyelashes or whatever and run the optics way out it's going to be less for you. With Index it's the same but with 130deg being the best case scenario instead of 110.

[Fri13]

Disappoined that they stuck with the lighthouse tracking system, not a fan and why I don't use Vive or will purchase the Index.

 

For a overall VR experience that can be either negligent or then problem. For a normal family member who doesn't have a dedicated gaming room or has a more "movable" system, the external sensors/lighthouses are not so great.

 

What I liked about Oculus approach having sensors externally was that basically cheap controllers could have been made that then can be tracked. But downside is that one PC per sensor setup. While the Valve/HTC idea of the internal sensors and external lighthouses made extra controllers far more expensive, but at least you only needed 2-3 lighthouses shared with all VR setups.

And again considering that each lighthouse wanted own AC, it was far worse than a each Oculus sensor having a USB cable as you anyways set it around the computer even next to walls without outlets etc (people living in houses that has just one outlet per room... talking about limitations!).

 

The new Oculus idea, that they copied from Microsoft (and as others too) is IMHO the second best idea. Especially if one can make new controllers to track something new, like make a new hand/finger pointer or gun stock etc.

 

But I still would like to see compatibility from Oculus for their CV1 sensors, so if wanted, one can add them for better external controller tracking (feets).

 

It also does not help matters that Valve has been less than supportive of us unlike other VR developers.

 

That is little worrying to hear. Sounds like Valve is more like just building their OpenVR platform and then hoping that the industry itself will find out who is supporting what and what needs to be added, instead leading the way for creating the support.

 

In my experience what some developers has said, is that Oculus offered surprising support, but I always thought that OpenVR was a better way to do it. But then again, if someone has a grand plan, you get better support from them than those who are just going "with the flow".

[Fri13]

Isn't it strange that the FOV is presented as "experienced 20° more than with the vive"? quote: Optimized eye relief adjustment allows a typical user experience 20º more than the HTC Vive....so how do you know about the 130° FOV? Could be smaller and just marketing IMO...

 

Depending the person eyes, depends the perceived FOV.

 

But the whole FOV thing is already a marketing gimmick. It is a combination from parts too that overlap, instead the full FOV.

So if one eye FOV is 55 degree, then total you get 110 degree, regardless if the 30 degree is at center overlapped, so you get in total only a 70-80 degree like if you would extend your arms to the edges of your FOV and then measure the angle from that.