What causes jester to lose lock so easily?

[mehksauce]

i mean sure there are obvious factors.. but hell... im sure alot of us here experience the " HIS RIGHT THERE!! " spout at jester when he loses a lock.

 

 

 

prime example would be...

 

 

[AH_Solid_Snake]

I think this might be related to the TWS auto feature not being implemented.

 

Both problems seem to arise because the radar / RIO programming has not been updated to actively move the scan azimuth and elevation to keep targets inside the cone. Or indeed to aggressively move the scan zone in order to acquire them in the first place.

 

Its a more manual process at the moment for a human RIO to pop the radar back into TWS manual and keep the scan going while you crank, and a manual process for a pilot to instruct jester to look low-middle, and left.

[DD_Fenrir]

It's not Jester.

 

Or the lack of TWS Auto.

 

I think people are just plain expecting too much of the AWG-9; it's not Jester losing the lock, it's the radar unable to maintain the lock due to target aspect, background clutter or target notch.

 

The AWG-9 is 60's era tech, designed primarily to engage non-manoeuvring targets over open ocean.

 

Pulse Doppler it may be but as we all should know that brings it's own series of issues to the party. I personally have had few dropped locks when I keep the targets skylined; I avoid trying to use the look-down(ish) feature unless over flat terrain or ocean and don't punch a missile out at a target unless I'm sure I can maintain a lock; if in TWS that means between 20-40nm with the target held against the sky.

 

I don't bother going STT till under 20nm, generally preferring to use PAL once the engagement gets to 15nm; Sparrows are practically useless anyway against manoeuvring fighters beyond 10nm.

 

So, simple version is, quit blaming the RIO, understand better what the radar is actually capable of and try to maximise it's advantages whilst mitigating it's weaknesses.

[viper2097]

So, simple version is, quit blaming the RIO, understand better what the radar is actually capable of and try to maximise it's advantages whilst mitigating it's weaknesses.

 

Pretty much this.

I may also add, that you can choose if Jester is STT'ing a target in P or PD.

I experience really seldom a situation where Jester can't lock a target, or looses its look where I don't have an idea why.

 

Many people are blaming Jester. I would suggest them to take place a few times in the RIO seat. I'm sure they'll understand a lot more after operating the AWG-9 on their own.

[sLYFa]

Indeed, the AWG-9 is not as capable as most people believe it should be.

I found turning off auto PD-STT to P-STT to be helpful, since switching to P-STT may make the radar loose the target.

[jmarso]

So, simple version is, quit blaming the RIO, understand better what the radar is actually capable of and try to maximise it's advantages whilst mitigating it's weaknesses.

 

Boom. It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools. Not that Jester is a tool... :D

[Mukai92]

Indeed, the AWG-9 is not as capable as most people believe it should be.

I found turning off auto PD-STT to P-STT to be helpful, since switching to P-STT may make the radar loose the target.

 

Sorry I don't know much about the radar systems of the f14. What's the advantage of either method (P and PD) I thought that PD was best at removing ground clutter interference but was susceptible to notching?

 

So if you feel you are being notched do you switch to P-STT and try to get them above the skyline to mitigate its inherent grond filtering issue?

 

I'm just trying to get the usage correct as I'm using the 'auto' mode at the moment but I'm having jester lose lock at range quite a bit and I dunno why and I feel its because I'm not 100% sure on the radar operation.

[sLYFa]

I thought that PD was best at removing ground clutter interference but was susceptible to notching?

Exactly. Actually, PD is what enables radars to find targets in a look down situation in the first place. The downside is that it will reject any return that has the same doppler shift (i.e. relative speed) as the ground below you.

So if you feel you are being notched do you switch to P-STT and try to get them above the skyline to mitigate its inherent grond filtering issue?

If you have already STTed a target in PD, there should be no need to get the target above the horizon, as the radar already knows where to look and does not need to rely on the doppler effect to discriminate target return from ground return. However, it seems that when switching from PD-STT to P-STT, the radar does lose lock sometimes. I therefore recommend to just stay in PD-STT all the way in, since the probability of loosing lock due to mode switch is in my experience higher than loosing lock due to the bandit notching you (at least against AI).

[Mukai92]

Exactly. Actually, PD is what enables radars to find targets in a look down situation in the first place. The downside is that it will reject any return that has the same doppler shift (i.e. relative speed) as the ground below you.

 

If you have already STTed a target in PD, there should be no need to get the target above the horizon, as the radar already knows where to look and does not need to rely on the doppler effect to discriminate target return from ground return. However, it seems that when switching from PD-STT to P-STT, the radar does lose lock sometimes. I therefore recommend to just stay in PD-STT all the way in, since the probability of loosing lock due to mode switch is in my experience higher than loosing lock due to the bandit notching you (at least against AI).

 

Awesome, thanks for the tips, much appreciated! I'll give them a go and hopefully be able to maintain lock better (though I feel the blame is more on me than Jester tbh :music_whistling: )

[Robert31178]

I'm not expecting too much out of the system - if I l ask Jester lock up a single aircraft at 20nm in STT out over the water, level altitude from me and my bandit is not trying to notch me then there is a reasonable expectation for Jester to be able to maintain a lock.

[mehksauce]

I'm not expecting too much out of the system - if I l ask Jester lock up a single aircraft at 20nm in STT out over the water, level altitude from me and my bandit is not trying to notch me then there is a reasonable expectation for Jester to be able to maintain a lock.

 

this... if jester loses a lock but you know the enemy is not notching/cranking.. then something else is wrong on jester part.

[JamesRothwell]

I fly with a human RIO sometimes and until recently I had no real idea exactly what is going on back there, watch some of the in-depth videos explaining how to use the radar and you'll soon realize it isn't Jester that is dropping lock but it's just the limitation of the old hardware.

 

But also I don't especially like flying with Jester, a real human that you can interact is a totally different experience.

[Chaogen]

Just this week I started dabbling in the RIO seat. While I have flown the Tomcat since release and have gotten pretty proficient at it, the RIO is another story. The amount of work that went into Jester is amazing. I've watched the RIO videos, done some training missions and I still can't even get a radar contact with two bandits straight on. There is a lot of things that Jester does back there without the Pilot even realizing.

 

A big part of it too, is your pilot giving you something to work with. You are not flying an AWACS. The position, attitude and aspect of your craft vs the bogey plays a big role. As for STT locks, I still don't understand why anyone uses it. Outside of 20nm you should be using TWS. Why let them know you are coming for them them, and inside of 20nm your PAL Mode is more than able to get the lock, granted you have your plane pointed in the right direction.

[CoBlue]

I'm not expecting too much out of the system - if I l ask Jester lock up a single aircraft at 20nm in STT out over the water, level altitude from me and my bandit is not trying to notch me then there is a reasonable expectation for Jester to be able to maintain a lock.

Exactly :thumbup:.

 

All you saying it's not Jester. So why couldn't he lock the bandit in STT (OP's video example) what was he doing wrong?

 

As for STT locks, I still don't understand why anyone uses it. Outside of 20nm you should be using TWS. Why let them know you are coming for them them, and inside of 20nm your PAL Mode is more than able to get the lock, granted you have your plane pointed in the right direction.

Maybe I'm flying as a decoy & at some point I want the bandits to know I'm locking them. While my buddy's sneak up on them in silence from another direction & ambush them. Or maybe I just want to buddy-lock. And you can't select specific targets in TWS.....

Also PAL is within 15nm.

[Braeden108]

I'm going to blame Jester. If he will turn off the notch filter then he won't lose lock when an aircraft notches. I know because that's what I do when I'm in the RIO pit. And I can easily keep a target locked up

[FortunateSon]

I agree with the AWG-9 is not a magical tool argument.

 

But AFAIK it remains a fact that Jester is incapable of dynamically adjusting the Elevation of the AWG-9.

 

 

That makes tracking targets at closer range (<60m) difficult as any altitude differential you have to the target is likely putting it outside of the radar cone.

 

 

The manual commands for Jester to adjust elevation are however resulting in too big a change in Elevation and make it more or less useless.

 

In the absence of TWS Auto, it would be up to Jester to try and keep the contacts in the radar cone. But he doesn't.

 

 

So, valid criticism of Jester's capabilities in my opinion. :)

[Harley Davidson]

Hey Robert, I'm having the same sort of issues. On the HB missions I can't lock on many bandits even when they are within 15mn and I'm on their 6. I've also had issues with inbound mig 21's that I just don't see until they fire a missile.

 

 

Shouldn't jester go to wide azimuth when bandit is within 20nm? I dunno if I was RIO i think this would help. I have real difficult locating a bandit after a merge and if they extend out of my sight range I'm screwed as its impossible to find them... I'm also not that great of a pilot either so I'm not helping things

[Nascar]

I would like Heatblur to implement Jester to say why he can't lock him up when the radar has been tracking it for 100 miles. Give the pilot some info on what he should be doing to keep a lock. If I have a bandit tracking on the TCS, shouldn't the radar be able to lock?

[DD_Fenrir]

You fellas understand how RCS works yeah? That it is a dynamic entity?

 

How even subtle changes in aspect can dramatically change the RCS of a target?

 

For example:

 

Bandits running hot at co-alt to you, giving you a nice view down those wide gaping inlets and showing you the rotating fan(s) of his engine(s).

 

Those inlet turbines are like beacons to radar energy, the single most highly reflective surfaces in any jet aircraft, boosting RCS massively.

 

So what happens if he turns climbs dives or turns?

 

Depending on the geometry of the inlet design, even as little as 5 degrees off could mask those RCS boosters and the target is suddenly re-radiating only a fraction of the radar energy back at you, particularly at longer ranges where he inverse square law bites hard.

 

Considering I have only ever had trouble with the AWG-9 losing locks in either TWS or STT at ranges over 25 miles, I'm pretty sure this is the cause of much of your woes.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DD_Fenrir

[Grater Tovakia]

I have noticed that there are times that Jester has an issue locking anything in which case I have to restart (this is rather rare though)