Respectful Position - Why I choose to Quit the DCS I'm So Fond Of.

[redmantab]

I absolutely love DCS World. I have a Volair cockpit setup, Rift S, X52, 1080 ti, and a rig largely built solely for the purpose of enjoying this great simulator. Taking one look at my cockpit shows that I have a respect and admiration for DCS. I share this message in the hopes of solutions and camaraderie....perhaps to relate to other DCS users that have this issue. Based on the design of DCS, this is something we ALL deal with.

 

I simply cannot re-dedicate the 1 hour segments for each attempt at one portion of just one mission in DCS world. Sure it is a simulator....but we play DCS for fun. This IS supposed to be fun, right? After 20 minutes startup/takeoff in my aircraft, 45 minutes flight and reaching the hour mark, to just get shot down in .5 seconds...or miss a trigger....or die due to something that would really happen ....is FINE. It's realistic. Love it...

 

Problem is, using the exact same hour yet AGAIN to get to the same point in a mission. That loses it's charm...quite quickly. By the third or fourth hour of trying it all YET again that enjoyment is turned to irritation. After 1000+ hours in DCS it is a fact that users are more often than not required to Re Engage in the same content for hours just to "move forward." It feels more like I'm fighting the mission designer .... dedicating HOURS while irritated at the time sink.

 

I'm finding myself dreading completing campaigns and even basic missions for this very same reason. Gave my Volair a nice look this morning, the X52's were lit up blue....ahhh my old friend....and then I remembered what I actually have to do....over and over again..... No thanks. :/

Edited August 3, 2019 by redmantab
Grammar

[wilbur81]

Two things that you would benefit from:

 

1. A dynamic campaign.

 

2. A "Save game state" option.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi

 

DCS world can be a deep simulator but you can also reduce time by setting up missions to suit your own needs. For example setting aircraft for air start closer to the action.

 

I would also disagree you are being forced, I think that is a bad choice of words as no one would be forcing you, it would be by choice.

 

We would be sorry to see you go, hopefully you will try again when the mood suits you.

 

Clear skies.

[redmantab]

Two things that you would benefit from:

 

1. A dynamic campaign.

 

2. A "Save game state" option.

 

Number 2 seems to be the most practical and needed. Doesn't exist. I heard it did a couple years ago in a mod form. That would be perfect. I also didn't mention my own solutions, as this isn't meant for the suggestion forum with low pop. Curious what other players feel that are in the same boat....as almost all of us are. Cheers

[ArcLite]

Multiplayer in a server running a dynamic-type mission will bring you a whole new level of what amount of fun you can have in an hour.

[redmantab]

Hi

 

DCS world can be a deep simulator but you can also reduce time by setting up missions to suit your own needs. For example setting aircraft for air start closer to the action.

 

I would also disagree you are being forced, I think that is a bad choice of words as no one would be forcing you, it would be by choice.

 

We would be sorry to see you go, hopefully you will try again when the mood suits you.

 

Clear skies.

 

Decent point on "forced." I would be a good sport and perhaps edit my title to "choose" but hey, it won't let me. Still, let's not argue over simple wording. Aaaaand stating "Forced" gets the point across. In a title with short wording, it helps convey my point. Due to the ridiculous necessity to replay everything and the time requirement that entails....I'm really almost forced out of this game. Want to get through a mission that 3 attempts hasn't helped finish yet...? Sure thing, to continue I'm now Forced into at least another hour (4 total now). Forced would be accurate to complete a campaign or mission I purchased at that point. So it isn't too far off. And If I chose not to do so, well then that really isn't very attractive. I'm Forced to Choose another hour on that mission at the very least....perhaps even more time will be needed. Or quit. How lovely. Get my point?

 

Rather, can we discuss my broader point? Thank you!

[redmantab]

Multiplayer in a server running a dynamic-type mission will bring you a whole new level of what amount of fun you can have in an hour.

 

Now this could be pretty cool. I enjoy multiplayer. But when considering campaigns or missions (purchased usually or even from other users online) that are single player...which are the majority of options around here.....I'm discouraged. Obviously I don't want to be discouraged....but it really is almost no choice.

[redmantab]

As Dudley AZ mentioned in another thread on these forums -

 

+1. I just spent five hours over the course of a weekend replying the same campaign mission over and over, repeating the first 30 minutes of start up and simple flying just to try a different approach to resolve the challenging situation that kept getting me killed. Turned the sense of victory into something of a grudge fight, me against the mission designer. This is supposed to be fun right? A save game feature would have done saved me hours of repetition. Please ED!

[BIGNEWY]

I have edited the title for you.

 

What I think you are saying is you want the save game feature.

 

ED are aware of this as a common request from the users, but currently I do not have any information regarding this.

[Exorcet]

Does DCS need a save state feature?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Are you forced to start over from scratch when a mission goes wrong? No.

 

 

DCS has solutions. First is jumping to another aircraft. You can fly as your wingman if you're a shot down. You can even take over a new flight if you're entire flight is shot down.

 

 

If you do end up starting over, there is autostart, or even just setting your plane to start hot or in the air. Once in the air you can use time acceleration. For an empty mission this can go up to 50x speed pretty easily. In a mission more Representative of what you might play in DCS somewhere between 3-10 times speed should work fine.

 

 

Lastly you can take control from your tracks. Fast forward with time acceleration to just before you're shot down and then use the Take Control option to get another chance at the mission.

[maxTRX]

I absolutely love DCS World. I have a Volair cockpit setup, Rift S, X52, 1080 ti, and a rig largely built solely for the purpose of enjoying this great simulator. Taking one look at my cockpit shows that I have a respect and admiration for DCS. I share this message in the hopes of solutions and camaraderie....perhaps to relate to other DCS users that have this issue. Based on the design of DCS, this is something we ALL deal with.

 

I simply cannot re-dedicate the 1 hour segments for each attempt at one portion of just one mission in DCS world. Sure it is a simulator....but we play DCS for fun. This IS supposed to be fun, right? After 20 minutes startup/takeoff in my aircraft, 45 minutes flight and reaching the hour mark, to just get shot down in .5 seconds...or miss a trigger....or die due to something that would really happen ....is FINE. It's realistic. Love it...

 

Problem is, using the exact same hour yet AGAIN to get to the same point in a mission. That loses it's charm...quite quickly. By the third or fourth hour of trying it all YET again that enjoyment is turned to irritation. After 1000+ hours in DCS it is a fact that users are more often than not required to Re Engage in the same content for hours just to "move forward." It feels more like I'm fighting the mission designer .... dedicating HOURS while irritated at the time sink.

 

I'm finding myself dreading completing campaigns and even basic missions for this very same reason. Gave my Volair a nice look this morning, the X52's were lit up blue....ahhh my old friend....and then I remembered what I actually have to do....over and over again..... No thanks. :/

 

What? You fly DCS missions?

Mission Editor was always the "game" for me in spite of its limitations... heck, I only use probably around 20% of ME potential. Whether you fly solo or with a team... you can surprise yourself with your own creation in spite of you knowing where everything is (there is a cure for that too:smilewink:). It forces you to study and develop tactics... whether you have RW experience or not...

[redmantab]

Does DCS need a save state feature?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Are you forced to start over from scratch when a mission goes wrong? No.

 

 

DCS has solutions. First is jumping to another aircraft. You can fly as your wingman if you're a shot down. You can even take over a new flight if you're entire flight is shot down.

 

 

If you do end up starting over, there is autostart, or even just setting your plane to start hot or in the air. Once in the air you can use time acceleration. For an empty mission this can go up to 50x speed pretty easily. In a mission more Representative of what you might play in DCS somewhere between 3-10 times speed should work fine.

 

 

Lastly you can take control from your tracks. Fast forward with time acceleration to just before you're shot down and then use the Take Control option to get another chance at the mission.

 

Hi Excorcet. Thank you for the reply. I type fast so pardon errors.

 

I'm aware of the solutions you mentioned. The time acceleration is kinda cool....but man....I'm sure you know it's pretty wonky....it feels so darned unnatural....you barely move left and you almost tip over haha. And resuming from Traks. Dear God. Surely you are aware...that is unreliable as all hell....I mean man. Sometimes you can. Sometimes you can't. It really is pretty rough. Especially in VR.

 

And getting in a new plane in a campaign can be tough as well....shot down....now I'm back on the ground in the same position my Mirage needed .....far from the battle....lining up my INS....20 minutes to take off.....not always the best right? If you have a better approach to having a new plane please share. Thank you!

 

How can I just jump in my wingman's cockpit when I'm dead? I actually never knew about that. That seems to be perhaps the easiest. We may be on to something here. Pretty lame if I create a mission I'll always need a wingman somewhere....but that may work. How will that work when I'm doing a campaign though? I need to edit each mission to guarantee a wingman? I guess they usually do have a wingman. Hmmm.

 

Please elaborate kind sir. Thank you in advance!

[BIGNEWY]

Ralt + J will let you spawn into another airfcraft

[Xilon_x]

DCS is not an arcade and a very deep air battle simulator so I advise you not to put another coin inside to play again.

[Exorcet]

Hi Excorcet. Thank you for the reply. I type fast so pardon errors.

 

I'm aware of the solutions you mentioned. The time acceleration is kinda cool....but man....I'm sure you know it's pretty wonky....it feels so darned unnatural....you barely move left and you almost tip over haha. And resuming from Traks. Dear God. Surely you are aware...that is unreliable as all hell....I mean man. Sometimes you can. Sometimes you can't. It really is pretty rough. Especially in VR.

 

And getting in a new plane in a campaign can be tough as well....shot down....now I'm back on the ground in the same position my Mirage needed .....far from the battle....lining up my INS....20 minutes to take off.....not always the best right? If you have a better approach to having a new plane please share. Thank you!

 

How can I just jump in my wingman's cockpit when I'm dead? I actually never knew about that. That seems to be perhaps the easiest. We may be on to something here. Pretty lame if I create a mission I'll always need a wingman somewhere....but that may work. How will that work when I'm doing a campaign though? I need to edit each mission to guarantee a wingman? I guess they usually do have a wingman. Hmmm.

 

Please elaborate kind sir. Thank you in advance!

 

 

Like Bignewy mentioned, Ralt J is the default switch key. It should let you jump into friendly flyable aircraft. You can select the plane with the F2 view of F10 map. I only create my own missions, so I have never tried to edit existing campaigns, but if you don't have friendly planes in a mission, you should just be able to add some in the Mission Editor and then save a new copy of the mission. Just make sure these added planes, if they're not your wingmen, have no attack tasks and are set to orbit so that they don't fly off and land.

 

 

 

There are some potential issues with some of the other methods I mentioned though I don't necessarily find them deal breakers. The unreliability of tracks is probably the worst thing, but it's likely worth checking since you can go through time quickly with time accel while watching.

 

 

Using time accel in the actual mission can be used with autopilot, if available. I'm able to fly decently even with time sped up though, I guess it comes with practice.

[Mars Exulte]

I've never played a combat flight simulator that had in mission saving or checkpoints, and I've been playing them since I was like 5 years old. Not a single one, unless my memory fails me terribly.

 

I don't know about FSX or Xplane, they might. But this is like 100% characteristic of the genre for decades. I don't see the problem, so you take off, fly around for an hour and fail the mission and don't have time for another attempt. So what? Try again the next day. Are you saying you're a completionist and want to ''finish the game'' in two days?

 

If you want shorter scenarios then play generated instant action missions. That's literally what they're for.

[VZ_342]

I’ve edited single player missions, resetting the start point for an aircraft is pretty simple. I’d think the triggers that indicate a “win” doesn’t include starting, taxiing, etc.

[redmantab]

I've never played a combat flight simulator that had in mission saving or checkpoints, and I've been playing them since I was like 5 years old. Not a single one, unless my memory fails me terribly.

 

I don't know about FSX or Xplane, they might. But this is like 100% characteristic of the genre for decades. I don't see the problem, so you take off, fly around for an hour and fail the mission and don't have time for another attempt. So what? Try again the next day. Are you saying you're a completionist and want to ''finish the game'' in two days?

 

If you want shorter scenarios then play generated instant action missions. That's literally what they're for.

 

Hey bud. Thanks for the reply. Look...I get it. Inevitably I knew this thread would, understandably, turn into the old guard vs the new....realism vs arcade....etc. And contrary to how I seem, I appreciate what you do.

 

I also enjoy campaigns. I bought the Mirage 2000 campaign (I believe Its Red Flag?!) because of the most excellent voice work and quality. Problem is, like many of the veterans in that forum have experienced, I can fly a mission 3 times, spend 3 hours (one on each attempt), and miss a mid air trigger. Poof. Hours gone. Try it again. Yay. That will be fun. Oh wait, it's now midnight. I've spent hours trying to get a trigger to trigger and want to enjoy SOME real flight without "fast forwarding."

 

Let's not simplify my approach too much here please. I'm not simply a "casual trying to turn DCS into an arcade." If you read through this thread and see my setup and what I enjoy (realism) I'm quite the opposite.

 

It just gets to a point where the time sink (3 hours+ over and over for a trigger) becomes too much. This is just a time issue...well, and the lack of enjoyment going through a campaign mission over and over....and over.....and over....due to time. Sure I mess up...it's just time consuming.

 

So far, the Ralt + J solution to jump in another jet seems like that REALLY really might kick some ass. I'm pumped on that recommendation here!

[AeriaGloria]

Dynamic multiplayer or time acceleration in SP and autostart. Often I fail a mission I will do autostart since I’ve already started it once for this mission. Quick align INS if that’s an issue

[Nooch]

DCS world can be a deep simulator but you can also reduce time by setting up missions to suit your own needs. For example setting aircraft for air start closer to the action.

 

Well, you can't. Paid campaigns have their mission files locked.

[BIGNEWY]

Well, you can't. Paid campaigns have their mission files locked.

 

Correct, but other missions can, it was a solution offered to try to give the user options, we don't want him to give up. :)

[redmantab]

Well, you can't. Paid campaigns have their mission files locked.

 

See....there ya go. Yay. Luuuame tbh.

[SharpeXB]

Two things that you would benefit from:

 

1. A dynamic campaign.

 

2. A "Save game state" option.

DCS definitely needs a save game feature. And without that the dynamic campaign won’t be very approachable for most.

 

If you wonder about why flight sims are niche games which struggle to attract players. It’s not because they’re complicated or because they require a joystick. It’s because they are possibly the only game genre that forces hour long missions without checkpoints or saves.

Yes it’s a realistic sim but it’s also a game.

[ApoNOOB]

Hi just some things that I personally miss in DCS and I think would really help with this type of burnout:

 

 

1. Aircraft setup / Mission cards: even when doing small/short/airstart missions there is a lot of fatigue by doing simple settings again and again. For example setting up countermeasures etc. in most western planes there would be mission cards where you can set up most 'computer' things. Other stuff may be taken care off already by ground crew etc.

 

 

Something along the lines of being able to set the aircraft in a specific specific state, for example A-10C: Cockpit lights set up as preferred, CDU set as desired, HUD functions as desired, weapon profiles set up&selected etc. Especially for training transferring an aircraft state would be awesome, but if there was a feature like this, it would be amazing for story-missions.

 

 

2. ^ In relation to this: Somekind of mission saving mechanism for sp missions.

 

 

 

3. Camera/general story-tools for mission builders, maybe something to force your camera/head tracking into a certain location, maybe even something gamey to highlight something in the world to make you focus it. I had some missions when starting out with DCS that were really action packed, but with DCS spotting/visuals you often missed most of it. DCS reality in this is, that you need be zoomed in maxx at whatever you want to see. Add to that speed/alt/range and chances are whatever nice visuals the mission builder hat in mind, you missed most of it.

 

 

4. Why the hate for arcade? I don't really play SP missions anymore, because as OP, in DCS I find them very boring and repetitive. There is a bunch of fun and 'arcade' scenarios/missions that could be great fun. I think we all miss out because this community is a little stuck in it's own elitism about 'hardcore flightsimTM'. :)

 

 

Think a MP gun arena server, mission builders go to a lot of trouble to build missions and code scripts for this type of scenario. That is no mission anyone of you will harp on about realism with a straight face. Stuff like that shines a little light on what DCS is missing on the 'game front' I think.

 

 

Also more scifi/fantasy/fictional scenarios! People often try so hard to be super realistic, but at the end of the day, somebody here can always nitpick something apart in your mission and burst your realism bubble. Is there finally a timetravel scenario where my A-10C pilot has to assist in Nomandy landing? Defend Vegas against hordes of nazis? Brb gotta check out Star Wars mod... :joystick:

 

---

 

 

To OP, I get your general frustration with SP campaigns/missions in DCS. My advice is, drop them completely and only play MP, that is where the meat is at in DCS anyway. Humans will always fight differently, missions are mostly setup in a way that won't make the majority rage if they die and on the other hand if you want a mission that makes you fly a long time to a target, there a servers for that aswell. Sadly in MP you will have other problems, teamplay/skill level of your team is random, netcode/desync/warping problems, mission/server problems, problems with your own internet connection to serverhost etc. etc. Please don't think frustrations are limited to SP lol.^^

 

 

I love DCS to death myself, but you can't deny there is often a lot of problems. ED is a small company and at this point I have retreated on the position that I will be happy with what I get and if it doesn't work, I will patiently wait for it. Even is that is sometimes never.

 

 

Take a break for a few weeks/months, this helped me through DCS burnout and reignite passion for flightsims in general. Just don't do the same thing again and again if it isn't fun. You don't have to!

[hansangb]

DCS is not an arcade and a very deep air battle simulator so I advise you not to put another coin inside to play again.

 

 

Absolutely not fair. You don't fly in sweltering heat, do you? You don't GLOC yourself, do you? Do you walk around the bird doing pre-flight in VR? You don't *DIE* if you mess up, right? I get that it's a sim and it's fantastic. BUT IT IS STILL A GAME. The OP has a point. Quitting seems a bit melodramatic, but I can feel the sense of frustration.

 

And auto-save feature *should* have been there a long time ago. As is easier way to setup MULTIPLE configs to different birds.