Roll axis - unusually slow?

[Shimmergloom667]

Hey guys.

 

VKB Gunfighter MK. II / MCG Pro user here. I have a slight curve on my axes in all modules (curve 10, usually), so I set up the Viper the same way.

 

I don't have issues with pitch axis, but roll axis feels unusually slow or, shall we say: wonky, like a messed up curve. When I deflect the stick, roll responds VERY SLOWLY until I near full deflection and suddenly ALL AT ONCE.

 

Control indicator shows stick movement as I would expect, plane response is slow though.

 

Any clues on if that is correct as-is?

 

(No, CAT I / III shouldn't impact roll rate, in case anyone would suggest that)

[Archaic]

Try dropping your curve.

 

Also, without CAT I and CAT III configs, I don't know if we can get accurate performance?

[Shimmergloom667]

That's the thing: I could drop my curve, but with all other modules the same curve behaves different than in the Viper specifically (not in roll rate of the plane, that is to be expected, but in how the stick deflection progresses) - I would like to know if that maybe is WIP.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Shimmergloom667

[Bagpipe]

You find that in most of Chuck's guides that each aircraft has an "ideal feel" curve setting for each axis. My standard settings are 25 all around but i have mapped my rudder/nws axis higher and my roll lower in this case (15)

 

I think from memory mine are at

Roll 15,

Pitch 25,

Rudder 30

[Shimmergloom667]

I know about how it works, it's just: it works a lot differently in the Viper for me. As if it had some inbuilt curve, and I'm not the only one noticing it, with regards to roll specifically.

 

Curves as high as you set don't work for me, but that's a matter of preference anyway.

[Swift.]

I have been seeing the same thing.

 

Virpil Warbrd with 75mm extension.

 

On every other plane I use 8 curve and that is fine for me, but on viper even with 0 curve it feels like there is still a curve of 30+. When I move the stick the controls indicator will respond appropriately but the jet won't roll at all. Until I reach a certain point, at which it will command almost full roll.

 

The experience is similar to flying hornet with a/p enabled.

[Coug4r]

Yeah noticed this too. With little roll input nothing much happens but when slightly increasing the input the roll suddenly kicks in. Very different from other AC.

[sze5003]

I've noticed the same thing. MCG pro grip here on the desktop plate. I don't have any curves set in dcs or saved in vkb profile.

 

Roll for me in the viper is very very slow. So I just apply rudder first then roll to the direction i want. Still slow and felt like I was pushing the stick too much whereas in the other aircraft I can get movement with a finger push on the stick.

 

Getting off the ground I experienced slow pitch as well but not as bad as roll is.

[Precog]

Try it without wing tanks.

[=Pedro=]

Try it without wing tanks.

 

:megalol:

[cronustr75]

I find it the same way, I use 25 axis curvature for every aircraft and I have 6-7 but this is different. I've set to "0"...

[MustangSally]

Same here.....Virpil CM2

[Swift.]

Having done a few experiments:

-Wing tanks make no difference to this effect, there is still a large 'dull zone'

-Setting curves to -10 makes it almost normal, however there is still a bit of weirdness around the mid deflection and at low speeds.

[LJQCN101]

If the FLCS is coded line by line according to the control block diagram, then a set of curvature (command gradient) and deadzone (electrical break-out) is already included in the FLCS. Setting all curvature and deadzone to 0 should give you a realistic representation of control response.

[Steph21]

Same here with the warthog and no curvature or deadzone set

Maybe they have modeled the real behavior of the force feedback stick of the Viper and that when moving our stick, it takes a low force value by default even for full left/right move of the stick.

 

I doubt so, but that would explain the behaviour

[Kid18120]

That's the thing: I could drop my curve, but with all other modules the same curve behaves different than in the Viper specifically (not in roll rate of the plane, that is to be expected, but in how the stick deflection progresses) - I would like to know if that maybe is WIP.

 

Different planes with different flight models and different implementations in the DCS engine.

There's no one good for everything setting in DCS. Just go by trial and error and judge by feeling

 

:joystick:

[Phantom453]

Must say I thought exactly the same thing and was probably expecting the opposite if anything with the F-16.

 

I've tried it with and without wing tanks and still have the same opinion. You really need to crank the stick over a long way to make her roll quickly.

 

Not saying its wrong, just not what I was expecting with this aircraft.

 

Warthog with 9 cm extension and no curves.

[Deadpoetic6]

maybe its a bug, but CAT 3 / CAT 1 really impact roll performance.

 

In CAT3 I roll wayy slower than in CAT 1

[Shimmergloom667]

At least I am not alone in that feeling - I have most of the modules, and they ALL feel similar with regards to curve and the roll axis specifically, only differing in the various roll rates according to the airframe.

 

The Viper not so much, and reading all your comments it feels like theres something not quite right.

[tylero68]

If the FLCS is coded line by line according to the control block diagram, then a set of curvature (command gradient) and deadzone (electrical break-out) is already included in the FLCS. Setting all curvature and deadzone to 0 should give you a realistic representation of control response.

 

I haven’t seen the block diagram but I was suspecting something to this extent. Where all other aircraft in DCS have a normal mechanical stick input with a 1:1 input to output to the flight controls (I stand to be corrected), with the Viper that is not the case. I would imagine that the pressure on the stick vs output to the flight controls in the viper IRL is not linear, and this is being reflected in the game. This is all just a guess, so don’t shred me too hard.

[Zad Fnark]

One thing I've noticed is that the Viper is a bit of a dog at low speeds (250 kts). If I make my final diving turn to the runway on final at that speed, I can't guarantee I can even pull out of the dive.

 

 

I've kept my final turn at corner speed and that helps a lot.

[erautour]

So I came here about an hour ago because I had the same issues on my 1st flight. Started cold and dark but skipped some of the startup tests (not sure this is the case) Threw 2 bags on and took off in Cat III. Roll behavior was slow as others have stated. Cat I or III made no difference.

 

I found this thread and tried again online. This time I did everything except MPO as it is in the EA guide. Clean jet with pylons in Cat I. Everything was perfectly fine and the Viper flew as you would expect. Cat III slowed the roll down slightly but still way faster than my 1st flight. Landed, picked up 2 bags, 2 120s on the tips and lost the pylons. The plane still behaved as one would expect.

 

At no time did I change any deadzone or curve settings on my stick from what I had initially set them to before the 1st flight. These are the same settings I use on the Hornet.

 

I will keep playing around to see if I can figure anything out and will report back

[Deano87]

You should not need any curve with the F-16 as it’s effectively built into the FLCS software. Zero everything out and it should fly ok. I imagine with w stick extension it will feel odd because that’s the exact opposite of what the real F-16 stick is lol.

[Txshooter38]

I noticed a dramatically different performance in roll rate depending on the flap setting.

[Deano87]

I noticed a dramatically different performance in roll rate depending on the flap setting.

 

Flap setting? There is no flap setting in the F-16. It lowers the flaps automatically with gear. Unless you’re talking about one of the emergency modes.