[FIXED INTERNALLY] Tadpole not giving steering que to intercept steerpoint

[Bravo]

Tadpole should position to give you an intercept angle and bank angle guidance to the steerpoint. Now it is pegged until you pass the steerpoint and then goes to the other side, just hovering over the steerpoint instead of working like a flight director.

 

tadpole.trk

Edited October 4, 2019 by NineLine
fixed vid

[Tomsk]

The tadpole is wrong in quite a few ways. One particularly weird one is that the tadpole moves (a lot) just from rolling the plane, which makes it almost impossible to actually use.

[NineLine]

Thanks for the report, I have flown your track, and right now I don't see an issue, the tadpole, or Sherm the sperm as I have just been told Viper pilots call it (:D) points at relative angle and not directly at it. It indicates relative degrees off nose.

 

So if the SP is 15 degrees left, the line would point 15 degrees left from straight up.

 

Flying your track, using sherm, I was able to line up on course with no issue.

[Harker]

I agree with the rest, it moves too abruptly. The transition should start sooner and be slower. You can technically still use it, but it's certainly harder than it should be.

[NineLine]

Not seeing that on my end, as well, Wags checked it out.

[Bravo]

OK, I will wait for another update and try to explain it better if it persists past the next update.

But since then I noticed that when flying an ILS the dot or sperm without the tail gives you where to put your FPM to intercept and fly the cross, while in steerpoint mode when I try to put my FPM such that the tadpole is inside the FPM I overshoot. I Believe it should be guiding in the same way

[Frederf]

Position of the GCSC is laterally in the horizontal plane roughly within the display of the pitch ladder and its numerical labels. Vertically it's at the same pitch as the FPM. The GCSC is clamped to the lateral limit until within about 3 degrees (just outside of the pitch ladder numerical labels) of its true position.

 

It's more or less a vertical visual extension of the steerpoint diamond. There is no smoothing or intercept direction. It swings across its lateral limits at the same speed as the FPM moves across the terrain.

 

ILS the dot or sperm without the tail gives you where to put your FPM to intercept and fly the cross

 

Ah, the GCSC in NAV mode and the command steering cue in ILS mode are totally different. ILS CMD STRG cue is quite complicated. The GCSC really isn't.

[Tomsk]

It surely can't be right .. it's almost completely useless as is .. it's so hard to follow it as even tiny rolls make it fly all over the place, so I've taken to just ignoring it completely and using the HSI.

[razo+r]

I think the whole Tadpole is bugged.

 

1) It moves quite, if not too fast from one side to the other, just as you demonstrated in the video.

 

2) If you STT a bandit, the Tadpole freezes completely at the current position in the HUD.

[NineLine]

Can I have a track of the STT freeze, otherwise everything else is working as intended (although we are asking an SME for further confirmation).

 

In ILS it's not a Sherm/tadpole its an ILS command steering marker. It is WIP and why Wags didn't comment on it in his vid.

Edited October 6, 2019 by NineLine

[Tomsk]

Here's a video of me trying to follow the tadpole, as you can see it's totally hopeless because every time you get near to it and level out it moves further away again.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Tomsk

[Deano87]

If you look at the way the tadpole moves in most HUD tapes you can see its much more predictable and possibly to follow then the current DCS implementation.

 

 

 

It should be relatively easy to place and keep the FPM over the Tadpole, it should not change drastically with bank angle like it does atm.

[Tomsk]

It should be relatively easy to place and keep the FPM over the Tadpole, it should not change drastically with bank angle like it does atm.

 

Nice find, the second video demonstrates it especially clearly. That's exactly how I'd expect it to work .. the tadpole shouldn't move around just from rolling the plane.

[NineLine]

But comparing the second video to your last one, you can see where the actual video the movements are much more precise and fine, whereas you are rolling much more aggressively and not letting up until you are already moving past the Sherm/Tadpole.

[Deano87]

Take a look at the following few seconds in this video below. You can see the aircraft starts to bank to the left. The tadpole starts to slide right because the nose of the aircraft is moving left away from the steer-point.

 

 

Now, If you look at the first few seconds of Tomsk's video you can see the tadpole move in the OPPOSITE direction from the direction it should be moving. If you turn RIGHT, the tadpole should move LEFT not further RIGHT. Its currently suggesting that you need to turn more right to steer back towards the steerpoint which is left of the nose. Which makes absolutely no sense, and doesn't match any real HUD footage. Also the Tadpole should hardly be moving with bank. It doesn't care about the bank angle of the aircraft, it mostly only cares about nose heading. Moreover the tadpole should always be between the FPM and the waypoint box. Often thanks to the weird way it behaves with bank angle you can end up with it on the other side of the waypoint box as can be seen a 11 seconds into Tomsk's video.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Deano87

[Deano87]

To further display the issue look at this comparison:

 

 

I have mirrored the left image so it matches the screen cap from this video and time.

 

 

I have levelled them with the horizon to show that the HUD tape is actually at a steeper angle of bank when compared to Tomsk.

 

For absolute clarity the Blue mark denotes the FPM, the Red mark denotes the steerpoint diamond and the Yellow mark indicates the location of the tadpole. You can clearly see that that order of things in DCS is not correct. The tadpole should always fall (in regards to heading, not pitch angle) between the Flight Path Marker and the Steerpoint Diamond. Banking the aircraft should not cause the tadpole to end up on the OPPOSITE side of the steerpoint diamond.

 

Please let me know if I need to explain the issue any further.

 

Honestly I think the problem comes from the way the tadpole reacts (or should I say massively over-reacts) to the aircraft banking.

 

Cheers

[NineLine]

As I said, we are going to have an SME that flies the Viper, in-game and in the real world look at it for further confirmation, that is all I have right now. I am not sure the comparisons are very telling in this case, but we will see what the SME says.

[Deano87]

As I said, we are going to have an SME that flies the Viper, in-game and in the real world look at it for further confirmation, that is all I have right now. I am not sure the comparisons are very telling in this case, but we will see what the SME says.

 

Glad to hear it'll be getting looked at.

[dave76]

steerpoint tadpole not coincident with flight path marker on hud

 

guys i find that if you navigate with steerpoint trying to put precisely the tadpole inside fpm on hud to follow current stpt it is always stays a little left or right but not coincident with flight path marker also if you have steerpont on the nose..........can this be please adjusted?:):):):):)

[mvsgas]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=251170&page=2

[Evovcui]

[NOT A BUG] Steering cue issue

 

It seems that the steering cue is not implemented correctly. As shown in the first and second screen shot, the steering point is to my 352. But if the plane is not leveled, the flightpath marker and cue don't overlap. When it turn to 357 they overlapped even the heading is wrong...

Last screen shot is from sth else as a reference...

 

I know it's not a bug, but is it accurate? I really don't think the current steering cue is usable.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Evovcui
as said at last

[razo+r]

(you should show some real world evidence instead of the other simulator that cannot be named)

[Evovcui]

But considering the navigation purpose of steering cue the last one makes more sense and is more practical to me.

[Evovcui]

Now im sure it is worse than a “bug”... something obviously bad simulated and gets only a “not bug” tag without any response... Am I supposed to get in a real F-16,and take shots of the hud to show the real evidence instead of the cantbenamed screenshot?

[VampireNZ]

The movement does seem janky - like it is linked to the horizon bars on the HUD, so when you bank it scoots over to the side.

 

In my experience with the tadpole it stayed pretty neutral horizontally and you could bank over to it and place the FPM on it, not bank over and have to try and guess where it will centralise again when you level out.