AIM-9 HUD Double D mode

[DERacing]

AIM-9 HUD Double D mode

 

 

In Jabbers awesome video below, he talks about the Double D mode (default) for the AIM-9 on the HUD. Specifically around the 3:20 mark.

 

 

It is the seeker head searching around the crosshair.

 

 

But when I arm up the AIM-9 I am not seeing this seeker. Is this a binding I need to set? Not sure why it is that I do not see this.

 

 

I normally fly using the AIM-9M model. Is it something to a different model of AIM-9?

 

 

Thanks for all the help Heatblur and for the AWESOME mod!

 

 

DCS World - F-14 Tomcat - Front Seat - Weapons - AIM-9 Sidewinder

 

 

Edit: Sorry, I am not able to get the youtube embed tag to work right.. Grrr....

Edited December 14, 2019 by DERacing

[r4y30n]

That was an early video, it turned out it wasn’t entirely realistic behavior and was updated. SEAM mode still does the double D search you just don’t see it on the HUD.

[DERacing]

That was an early video, it turned out it wasn’t entirely realistic behavior and was updated. SEAM mode still does the double D search you just don’t see it on the HUD.

 

 

Got it! Thank you for the info.

[Victory205]

It doesn’t do that scan pattern. Period.

[r4y30n]

Thanks for the correction Victory205, what effect does SEAM have in that case?

[uhntissbaby111]

It doesn’t do that scan pattern. Period.

 

Just to clarify, the missile doesn’t do the scan pattern or does it just not show up on the HUD?

[BonerCat]

That's not righr Vitory205. The pattern is still executed if there is no STT lock. However, the visualization was removed in this update

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3852900&postcount=50

4th line from the top in the tomcat changelog

"Change sidewinder HUD movable reticle to show only center of scan pattern."

This indicates the scan pattern still exists and is running when you have no STT, you just don't see it.

 

However, i m pretty sure if you have someone STT, the missile will slave right to him and not execute the double d pattern

[Airhunter]

Should only scan in that pattern if you press the CAGE/SEAM button on the throttle. Of course not visible on the HUD. The diamond/Cross symbols are reserved in every sub mode and dependant on selected weapon type.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Airhunter

[IronMike]

EDIT: I remembered wrong, Victory just corrected me, and in fact we changed that quite a while ago:

 

The seeker head does not perform a double D, and ofc it is also not visible in the hud. In CAGE/SEAM it does do a nutation of the seeker to increase missile FOV is all. But no double D.

 

It is possible that the manual part for this has not been adjusted yet, our apologies for the confusion.

Edited December 15, 2019 by IronMike

[Naquaii]

To clarify, the Sidewinders on the Tomcat capable of SEAM uses that to increase the seekerhead field of view by scanning the seekerhead around (not a double-d), not visible on the HUD though. This is done either about the ADL or the tracked target.

 

The only mode that does not do this is if BRSIT is selected on the ACM panel in which case the missile reverts to old Sidewinder behaviour with the seekerhead not scanning and just staring along the ADL. Think of that as a backup mode.

[Chaogen]

That's not righr Vitory205. The pattern is still executed if there is no STT lock. However, the visualization was removed in this update

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3852900&postcount=50

4th line from the top in the tomcat changelog

"Change sidewinder HUD movable reticle to show only center of scan pattern."

This indicates the scan pattern still exists and is running when you have no STT, you just don't see it.

 

However, i m pretty sure if you have someone STT, the missile will slave right to him and not execute the double d pattern

 

 

You must be new here.

[RaisedByWolves]

The gauntlet has been thrown down.

[near_blind]

[Top Jockey]

You must be new here.

 

Yes, but nevertheless he is right... they took away my AIM-9's seekerhead moving scan pattern from the HUD. :mad:

 

... a long time ago, in sim called 'Fleet Defender' this very same feature (moving scan pattern) was visible at the HUD...

 

(From 4:27 onward.)

 

So I imagine that IRL, at some of the various Tomcat avionics iterations this feature existed, and later it eventually was removed.

The same for the pattern geometry, initially it was the "double-D", and latter changed for an "epicyclic circle" type.

[lunaticfringe]

They took it away because it didn't exist.

[Top Jockey]

They took it away because it didn't exist.

 

Long time don't see... you really pick your moments.

 

However, I'm not so sure:

 

- Fleet Defender featured it (I know it worths what its worth) ;

 

- the VSL Lo and PAL modes, do feature a moving scan pattern diamond symbol visible at the HUD, so why completely reject that the AIM-9 seekerhead piper/cross eventually also have had this feature ?

 

- in some of the many threads about this, @Naquaii doesn't see it as straight forward as you, post #14 :

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4006557#post4006557

[Whiskey11]

Long time don't see... you really pick your moments.

 

However, I'm not so sure:

 

- Fleet Defender featured it (I know it worths what its worth) ;

 

- the VSL Lo and PAL modes, do feature a moving scan pattern diamond symbol visible at the HUD, so why completely reject that the AIM-9 seekerhead piper/cross eventually also have had this feature ?

 

- in some of the many threads about this, @Naquaii doesn't see it as straight forward as you, post #14 :

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4006557#post4006557

 

Victory flew the Tomcat in real life (IIRC)... I think he qualifies as a SME on whether or not the double D pattern existed or not....

[Top Jockey]

Victory flew the Tomcat in real life (IIRC)... I think he qualifies as a SME on whether or not the double D pattern existed or not....

 

Yeah the devs already mentioned that (and much more) to me, when we've exchanged impressions on this subject.

So thank you for pointing, but I know my place... and it could be useful reading what @Naquaii said at the link I posted above, post #14.

 

Like the fact that, there were MANY different iterations of the F-14's avionics throughout its service life.

... I think you should know we are not talking about the "double D" pattern anymore, as the current F-14B version we have actually does feature an "epicyclic circle" scan pattern.

 

So I'm not denying Victory's statements / expertise / credibility, I'm just stating that little details / differences like this, there are lots of them.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Top Jockey

[lunaticfringe]

Long time don't see... you really pick your moments.

 

I've posted in five topics in the last week. I'd ask where you've been, but it's not a concern of mine.

 

- Fleet Defender featured it (I know it worths what its worth) ;

 

If you know something is patently immaterial you should stop trying to defend your position with it.

 

...so why completely reject that the AIM-9 seekerhead piper/cross eventually also have had this feature ?

 

Because the documentation and SME feedback report that it wasn't there for the jet they're making.

 

- in some of the many threads about this, @Naquaii doesn't see it as straight forward as you, post #14 :

 

Naquaii is working with the intention of modeling the HUD and FCS functions of a specific time frame, with the documentary and SME support to back it up. This has been expressed repeatedly, and yet it's not acceptable to you because you once saw it in a game from 26 years ago, and it is the only argument you have to continue lodging complaints over it.

 

You have a game manual. They have NAVAIR documentation and people that flew the jet. Instead of expecting they justify its absence to you, you should instead qualify why they should work on your assumption, rather than the confirmable material they have in hand.

 

That, or find them better documentation.

[Top Jockey]

I've posted in five topics in the last week. I'd ask where you've been, but it's not a concern of mine.

 

Probably was refering to some old time forgotten PM or something, no big deal.

 

Naquaii is working with the intention of modeling the HUD and FCS functions of a specific time frame, with the documentary and SME support to back it up. This has been expressed repeatedly, and yet it's not acceptable to you because you once saw it in a game from 26 years ago, and it is the only argument you have to continue lodging complaints over it.

 

You have a game manual. They have NAVAIR documentation and people that flew the jet. Instead of expecting they justify its absence to you, you should instead qualify why they should work on your assumption, rather than the confirmable material they have in hand.

 

That, or find them better documentation.

 

As on your previous post you said "it didn't exist", I thought you meant "didn't exist at all in any airframe".

Even more so when @Naquaii mentioned: " Some of our documentation is quite old, detailing functionality that was later removed. "

 

Not complaining at all (would buy the boxed Heatblur F-14 version if available), I see maybe I expressed myself wrong :

I'm tired to know from the start, that our current version / specific airframe does not have this feature.

 

Just manifesting a personal preference when this subject comes up; that it would be great if we could have an airframe / version where this feature eventually might have existed.

As it would add more of the Tomcat's charisma - just like the early IRST that never was very good performance wise, for instance.

 

And yes, I'll admit it might have come across with some insistence from my part.

[Cobra847]

Chill out dudebros :)

 

AFAIR, yes- the documentation we have does describe the Double-D hence why we added it in the first place, but it's very old, doesn't match desired model, and very much clashes with SME feedback (Victory included).

Thus, away it goes.

[Top Jockey]

Should only scan in that pattern if you press the CAGE/SEAM button on the throttle. Of course not visible on the HUD. The diamond/Cross symbols are reserved in every sub mode and dependant on selected weapon type.

 

I believe not; it is already scanning by itself when in Boresight SCAN mode.

The CAGE / SEAM button on the throttle, instead gives the lock command / function.

 

AIM-9 modes:

 

- Boresight; seeker fixed at ADL

- Boresight SCAN; seeker scans about ADL

- Slave SCAN (Radar or TV); seeker scans about sensor line of sight

 

However, as the AIM-9 seeker scan pattern is not visible at the HUD, the 2 first modes do look very similar.

[Naquaii]

I believe not; it is already scanning by itself when in Boresight SCAN mode.

The CAGE / SEAM button on the throttle, instead gives the lock command / function.

 

AIM-9 modes:

 

- Boresight; seeker fixed at ADL

- Boresight SCAN; seeker scans about ADL

- Slave SCAN (Radar or TV); seeker scans about sensor line of sight

 

However, as the AIM-9 seeker scan pattern is not visible at the HUD, the 2 first modes do look very similar.

 

As I stated earlier, the only mode in which the seeker does not scan is when set to BRSIT on the ACM panel by the pilot.

 

In all other cases the seekers scans to increase the field of view, regardless if along the ADL or sensor line of sight at a track location.

 

This includes when the AIM-9 is scanning along the ADL (boresight) because of a lack of an active WCS track but that is different from an explicit boresight (BRSIT).

[Top Jockey]

As I stated earlier, the only mode in which the seeker does not scan is when set to BRSIT on the ACM panel by the pilot.

 

In all other cases the seekers scans to increase the field of view, regardless if along the ADL or sensor line of sight at a track location.

 

This includes when the AIM-9 is scanning along the ADL (boresight) because of a lack of an active WCS track but that is different from an explicit boresight (BRSIT).

 

Preciselly, also being the missile mode pushbutton at the ACM panel in "NORM".